Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[winforlose]

OK, I completely disregarded one (semi-realistic?) scenario here...

What if Randle opts in with the handshake agreement that he'll get an extension from PHX (who, let's be realistic, could do a lot worse for their Booker 2nd banana than Randle)? Would it then be financially/hard-cap legal to trade Randle, Mike, Rob, let's say Minott, Miller and one of Clark/TSJ for KD plus re-sign both Naz and NAW and go over the 2nd apron?

If that's legal then you're left with DDV, Ant, Naz, NAW, Jaden, KD, Rudy, Clark/TSJ. How much space does it leave for any minimum/MLE signings?

I did all the math for you a couple pages back. The Wolves salaries are on Spotrac. If you want me to do the math for you I can, but you must give me specific values to plug in for Naz, NAW, and whoever else you are signing. You also need to give details about our picks. A first costs more than a 2nd, ect… The likely answer is no. If you go back and look DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy cost $172,107,742.00. The hard cap is $207,825,000. $207,825,000- 172,107,742= $35,717,258.00. If you have to pay Naz 22 and NAW 8 then you have no chance of clearing the hard cap.

As I understand it - hard cap and 2nd apron are two different things?

Hard cap is an "imaginary" wall where you get stuck if you do a S&T etc? 2nd apron is a real financial number threshold where if you go over you cannot aggregate salaries in trades, your pick gets frozen etc? But you are still allowed to make moves that get you above the 2nd apron correct? Otherwise how did the Wolves get to be above the 2nd apron if you can never cross it back after going under?

For this part specifically:

If you go back and look DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy cost $172,107,742.00. The hard cap is $207,825,000. $207,825,000- 172,107,742= $35,717,258.00. If you have to pay Naz 22 and NAW 8 then you have no chance of clearing the hard cap.

With those 5 we're at 172m, understood. Why are the Wolves then not allowed to re-sign Naz for let's say 25m and NAW for 12m and go over the 2nd apron if they have their bird rights? Is there legality that prevents them or do you think they just wouldn't do that/not feasible to building the team further?

Isn't the 1st apron at 195m? Why are you not allowed to aggregate salaries if you are under the 1st apron even?

The concept of a salary cap in football is there is a dollar amount you CANNOT GO OVER. This is known as a hard cap. In basketball there are two types of salary caps. The soft cap is a number you can breach. You can go high enough past the soft cap that you start to pay luxury tax. However the NBA created rules where certain actions (sign and trade to receive a player, use more of the MLE than the tax payer level, ect…,) create a hard cap. Once again you CANNOT GO OVER the hard cap. The NBA has two hard caps and different rules on how to trigger them. You are NEVER hard capped by default. Only by specific actions. The first hard caps is set at the same number as the beginning of the first apron. The second hard cap is set at the same number as the beginning second apron. Once you aggregate salaries the soft cap disappears, and the hard cap is in place. You CANNOT spend a single penny over the hard cap. The rules don’t allow it. The league will block any move to go over the hard cap. There is no wiggle room or room to negotiate.

[ILC]

I did all the math for you a couple pages back. The Wolves salaries are on Spotrac. If you want me to do the math for you I can, but you must give me specific values to plug in for Naz, NAW, and whoever else you are signing. You also need to give details about our picks. A first costs more than a 2nd, ect… The likely answer is no. If you go back and look DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy cost $172,107,742.00. The hard cap is $207,825,000. $207,825,000- 172,107,742= $35,717,258.00. If you have to pay Naz 22 and NAW 8 then you have no chance of clearing the hard cap.

As I understand it - hard cap and 2nd apron are two different things?

Hard cap is an "imaginary" wall where you get stuck if you do a S&T etc? 2nd apron is a real financial number threshold where if you go over you cannot aggregate salaries in trades, your pick gets frozen etc? But you are still allowed to make moves that get you above the 2nd apron correct? Otherwise how did the Wolves get to be above the 2nd apron if you can never cross it back after going under?

For this part specifically:

If you go back and look DDV/Ant/Jaden/KD/Rudy cost $172,107,742.00. The hard cap is $207,825,000. $207,825,000- 172,107,742= $35,717,258.00. If you have to pay Naz 22 and NAW 8 then you have no chance of clearing the hard cap.

With those 5 we're at 172m, understood. Why are the Wolves then not allowed to re-sign Naz for let's say 25m and NAW for 12m and go over the 2nd apron if they have their bird rights? Is there legality that prevents them or do you think they just wouldn't do that/not feasible to building the team further?

Isn't the 1st apron at 195m? Why are you not allowed to aggregate salaries if you are under the 1st apron even?

The concept of a salary cap in football is there is a dollar amount you CANNOT GO OVER. This is known as a hard cap. In basketball there are two types of salary caps. The soft cap is a number you can breach. You can go high enough past the soft cap that you start to pay luxury tax. However the NBA created rules where certain actions (sign and trade to receive a player, use more of the MLE than the tax payer level, ect…,) create a hard cap. Once again you CANNOT GO OVER the hard cap. The NBA has two hard caps and different rules on how to trigger them. You are NEVER hard capped by default. Only by specific actions. The first hard caps is set at the same number as the beginning of the first apron. The second hard cap is set at the same number as the beginning second apron. Once you aggregate salaries the soft cap disappears, and the hard cap is in place. You CANNOT spend a single penny over the hard cap. The rules don’t allow it. The league will block any move to go over the hard cap. There is no wiggle room or room to negotiate.

I understand what you're saying, but are you sure that is true?

I am googling like crazy, even asking AI bots for sourcing but I cannot find legal language anywhere that says you are hard-capped if you aggregate salaries at any point under the 2nd apron?

I understand you cannot aggregate salaries while over the 2nd apron, as well as a bunch of other restrictions. I understand you cannot aggregate salaries in a trade that gets you over the 2nd apron if you are under the 2nd apron. But I cannot find anywhere that says if you are under the 2nd apron and you aggregate salaries in a trade and STILL remain under the 2nd apron that you then get hard-capped. That would seem incredibly pointless, overly restrictive and just plain dumb by all sides who agreed to that.

I'm under the 1st apron? I make a trade aggregating salaries but still stay under the 1st apron or at the 1st apron? And I still cannot use my bird-rights to re-sing my own FAs? That's just unbelievably dumb

[winforlose]

As I understand it - hard cap and 2nd apron are two different things?

Hard cap is an "imaginary" wall where you get stuck if you do a S&T etc? 2nd apron is a real financial number threshold where if you go over you cannot aggregate salaries in trades, your pick gets frozen etc? But you are still allowed to make moves that get you above the 2nd apron correct? Otherwise how did the Wolves get to be above the 2nd apron if you can never cross it back after going under?

For this part specifically:



With those 5 we're at 172m, understood. Why are the Wolves then not allowed to re-sign Naz for let's say 25m and NAW for 12m and go over the 2nd apron if they have their bird rights? Is there legality that prevents them or do you think they just wouldn't do that/not feasible to building the team further?

Isn't the 1st apron at 195m? Why are you not allowed to aggregate salaries if you are under the 1st apron even?

The concept of a salary cap in football is there is a dollar amount you CANNOT GO OVER. This is known as a hard cap. In basketball there are two types of salary caps. The soft cap is a number you can breach. You can go high enough past the soft cap that you start to pay luxury tax. However the NBA created rules where certain actions (sign and trade to receive a player, use more of the MLE than the tax payer level, ect…,) create a hard cap. Once again you CANNOT GO OVER the hard cap. The NBA has two hard caps and different rules on how to trigger them. You are NEVER hard capped by default. Only by specific actions. The first hard caps is set at the same number as the beginning of the first apron. The second hard cap is set at the same number as the beginning second apron. Once you aggregate salaries the soft cap disappears, and the hard cap is in place. You CANNOT spend a single penny over the hard cap. The rules don’t allow it. The league will block any move to go over the hard cap. There is no wiggle room or room to negotiate.

I understand what you're saying, but are you sure that is true?

I am googling like crazy, even asking AI bots for sourcing but I cannot find legal language anywhere that says you are hard-capped if you aggregate salaries at any point under the 2nd apron?

I understand you cannot aggregate salaries while over the 2nd apron, as well as a bunch of other restrictions. I understand you cannot aggregate salaries in a trade that gets you over the 2nd apron if you are under the 2nd apron. But I cannot find anywhere that says if you are under the 2nd apron and you aggregate salaries in a trade and STILL remain under the 2nd apron that you then get hard-capped. That would seem incredibly pointless, overly restrictive and just plain dumb by all sides who agreed to that.

I'm under the 1st apron? I make a trade aggregating salaries but still stay under the 1st apron or at the 1st apron? And I still cannot use my bird-rights to re-sing my own FAs? That's just unbelievably dumb

OVER THE SECOND APRON

Threshold: $207,825,000
No signing exceptions
Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:
Using Tax MLE
Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade
Sending out cash in trade
Acquiring a player using a TPE that was created via pervious sign-and-trade
Can only:
Re-sign own free agents
Sign draft picks
Sign players to minimum contracts
Make trades where one player salary is sent out and equal or less salary comes back (can do a 1 for 2+ trade)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_maximum_space

I am 100% sure and here is the source.

[ILC]

The concept of a salary cap in football is there is a dollar amount you CANNOT GO OVER. This is known as a hard cap. In basketball there are two types of salary caps. The soft cap is a number you can breach. You can go high enough past the soft cap that you start to pay luxury tax. However the NBA created rules where certain actions (sign and trade to receive a player, use more of the MLE than the tax payer level, ect…,) create a hard cap. Once again you CANNOT GO OVER the hard cap. The NBA has two hard caps and different rules on how to trigger them. You are NEVER hard capped by default. Only by specific actions. The first hard caps is set at the same number as the beginning of the first apron. The second hard cap is set at the same number as the beginning second apron. Once you aggregate salaries the soft cap disappears, and the hard cap is in place. You CANNOT spend a single penny over the hard cap. The rules don’t allow it. The league will block any move to go over the hard cap. There is no wiggle room or room to negotiate.

I understand what you're saying, but are you sure that is true?

I am googling like crazy, even asking AI bots for sourcing but I cannot find legal language anywhere that says you are hard-capped if you aggregate salaries at any point under the 2nd apron?

I understand you cannot aggregate salaries while over the 2nd apron, as well as a bunch of other restrictions. I understand you cannot aggregate salaries in a trade that gets you over the 2nd apron if you are under the 2nd apron. But I cannot find anywhere that says if you are under the 2nd apron and you aggregate salaries in a trade and STILL remain under the 2nd apron that you then get hard-capped. That would seem incredibly pointless, overly restrictive and just plain dumb by all sides who agreed to that.

I'm under the 1st apron? I make a trade aggregating salaries but still stay under the 1st apron or at the 1st apron? And I still cannot use my bird-rights to re-sing my own FAs? That's just unbelievably dumb

OVER THE SECOND APRON

Threshold: $207,825,000
No signing exceptions
Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:
Using Tax MLE
Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade
Sending out cash in trade
Acquiring a player using a TPE that was created via pervious sign-and-trade
Can only:
Re-sign own free agents
Sign draft picks
Sign players to minimum contracts
Make trades where one player salary is sent out and equal or less salary comes back (can do a 1 for 2+ trade)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_maximum_space

I am 100% sure and here is the source.

But that is for teams that are already over the 2nd apron.

They list the teams that are affected by the restrictions in each section and for the section you copied only teams are Celtics, Cavs and Suns.

Wolves are listed under the OVER THE CAP section and it says there is no trade or signing restrictions.

By your math after the KD trade the Wolves would be under the 1st apron, at most over the 1st which still doesn't prevent them from re-signing their bird-rights FAs to go over the 2nd apron

[winforlose]

I understand what you're saying, but are you sure that is true?

I am googling like crazy, even asking AI bots for sourcing but I cannot find legal language anywhere that says you are hard-capped if you aggregate salaries at any point under the 2nd apron?

I understand you cannot aggregate salaries while over the 2nd apron, as well as a bunch of other restrictions. I understand you cannot aggregate salaries in a trade that gets you over the 2nd apron if you are under the 2nd apron. But I cannot find anywhere that says if you are under the 2nd apron and you aggregate salaries in a trade and STILL remain under the 2nd apron that you then get hard-capped. That would seem incredibly pointless, overly restrictive and just plain dumb by all sides who agreed to that.

I'm under the 1st apron? I make a trade aggregating salaries but still stay under the 1st apron or at the 1st apron? And I still cannot use my bird-rights to re-sing my own FAs? That's just unbelievably dumb

OVER THE SECOND APRON

Threshold: $207,825,000
No signing exceptions
Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:
Using Tax MLE
Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade
Sending out cash in trade
Acquiring a player using a TPE that was created via pervious sign-and-trade
Can only:
Re-sign own free agents
Sign draft picks
Sign players to minimum contracts
Make trades where one player salary is sent out and equal or less salary comes back (can do a 1 for 2+ trade)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_maximum_space

I am 100% sure and here is the source.

But that is for teams that are already over the 2nd apron.

They list the teams that are affected by the restrictions in each section and for the section you copied only teams are Celtics, Cavs and Suns.

Wolves are listed under the OVER THE CAP section and it says there is no trade or signing restrictions.

“Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:” It literally says you become hard capped by “ Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade”

For more proof check the list. Teams under the 2nd apron could use the tax payer MLE. But, once they do, they cannot enter the 2nd apron. Why, because they are hard capped. Teams under the tax line can sign and trade to receive a player. But once they do, they are hard capped below the first apron. This is not a new concept, the proof is literally spelled out for you with a proper source. This is a fact not an opinion. It does not matter that we are below the 2nd apron next year. If we signed and traded for any free agent using our MLE then we would be hard capped. The same is true if we aggregate in trade. The only difference is which hard cap you trigger. Sign and trade triggers the 1st apron hard cap, the aggregation trade triggers the 2nd apron hard cap.

Again, you cannot both be in the 2nd apron and have made an aggregation trade that season. Just like you cannot both receive a player via sign and trade, and be over the first apron.

[Klomp]

Everything you said is correct, yet his team has 26 wins and 28 losses. Having KD does not automatically win a game....

It also does not automatically lose games...

[Klomp]

End of the day one of two things is true. Either KD is the missing piece to winning a championship (or at least contending for one,) or acquiring him is a bad move. If the former now the question becomes whether we could get there and be better off in the long run by having gone the long way around and developed sustainably? Or, is this a golden opportunity that if missed might never come around again?

Sorry, I just cannot agree with this....

First of all, it means every move has to be essentially championship or bust.

Secondly, it means that there is no time to allow for progressive development. For example, after just one year everyone was convinced trading for Gobert was a horrible move. And by your explanation here, there's no going back on that because he wasn't the missing piece for that 2022-23 team.

And by that, everything in the tenure for Anthony Edwards has been a colossal failure so everying needs to be blown up yesterday. There's nothing that can be done. It's over. Fold the team. After all, every acquisition has to be the missing piece to a championship or it's a bad move.

Klomp you cannot keep doing this man. Obviously Ant in his early 20s or Gobert in his early 30s is not the same thing as KD at 37. If it takes a year to gel he is 38 and if he wants a max that is over 60 million. If he retires at 39 that is two years and two cracks at this. Meanwhile we gave up players who could be useful in year 3.

P.S. the Gobert trade was a little bit of an overpay but I loved the spirit of it to pair KAT and Rudy together and it gets better with Jaden. Take KAT out of the equation and it was a TRAVESTY! KAT would have been more valuable than Rudy to this franchise. We would also have a ton of picks to use as ammunition to get longer term cheaper players than Rudy. The 2nd apron must have really blindsided Glen, because all signs said spend to win, and we took one look at the 2nd apron and said **** it, let’s save money and to hell with the team, the fans, the title chase, and everything else. You saw the potential of the twin towers done right, and now you’re seeing what happens when you sell low on KAT.

There are a lot of "what ifs" there...

[Klomp]

Also the Suns lack depth. People like Klomp will tell you 9-15 does not matter. But guess what, if you have a guy miss 13 out of 54 games, then who plays behind him, and how the rotation of those games changes matters a lot. Plus we know the Suns had other guys missing at the same time. Maybe being forced to play sub standard players who are liabilities is actually not the best strategy for winning.

I have never said it does not matter. I said it does not matter as much as the actual rotation.

You are essentially arguing that the Bulls made a mistake acquiring Dennis Rodman because Judd Buechler wasn't trustworthy enough on the deep bench.

[Klomp]

OVER THE SECOND APRON

Threshold: $207,825,000
No signing exceptions
Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:
Using Tax MLE
Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade
Sending out cash in trade
Acquiring a player using a TPE that was created via pervious sign-and-trade
Can only:
Re-sign own free agents
Sign draft picks
Sign players to minimum contracts
Make trades where one player salary is sent out and equal or less salary comes back (can do a 1 for 2+ trade)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_maximum_space

I am 100% sure and here is the source.

But that is for teams that are already over the 2nd apron.

They list the teams that are affected by the restrictions in each section and for the section you copied only teams are Celtics, Cavs and Suns.

Wolves are listed under the OVER THE CAP section and it says there is no trade or signing restrictions.

“Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do:” It literally says you become hard capped by “ Aggregating two or more player salaries in a trade”

For more proof check the list. Teams under the 2nd apron could use the tax payer MLE. But, once they do, they cannot enter the 2nd apron. Why, because they are hard capped. Teams under the tax line can sign and trade to receive a player. But once they do, they are hard capped below the first apron. This is not a new concept, the proof is literally spelled out for you with a proper source. This is a fact not an opinion. It does not matter that we are below the 2nd apron next year. If we signed and traded for any free agent using our MLE then we would be hard capped. The same is true if we aggregate in trade. The only difference is which hard cap you trigger. Sign and trade triggers the 1st apron hard cap, the aggregation trade triggers the 2nd apron hard cap.

Again, you cannot both be in the 2nd apron and have made an aggregation trade that season. Just like you cannot both receive a player via sign and trade, and be over the first apron.

The key word you are ignoring is OR. Team becomes hard-capped at the Second Apron by or can't use/do.

[Klomp]

Mike Conley 16,000 career points
Kevin Durant 30,000 career points

Totally should be talked about in the same breath as if they are the same exact player....

[shrink]

But that is for teams that are already over the 2nd apron

The way the CBA does this is unnecessarily confusing to me. Would it shock you if I told you that the Wolves aren’t a second or even a first apron team right now?

Winforlose is correct, pointing out that it takes an action that is restricted to lock you into an apron, and hard cap your payroll at that salary level. But effectively we face the same apron penalties because the CBA determines if deals are legal after they are completed. As we see in the KD trade, if we want to aggregate salary, we need to end up under the apron after the trade is completed for the deal to be legal.

In the meantime, we aren’t hardcapped. Remember, the term isn’t about all these new apron restrictions - it’s only about a team’s payroll. MIN is well above the second apron, but we could still add to our payroll by signing a vet min player tomorrow. Contrast that with the Lakers, who are hardcapped, and only like $70k under the cap. They are forced to make no moves that take them over the cap, and as such, could only sign a vet min player very late in the season, when the pro-rated remainder of a vet min contract is less than $70k.

[Klomp]

But that is for teams that are already over the 2nd apron

The way the CBA does this is unnecessarily confusing to me. Would it shock you if I told you that the Wolves aren’t a second or even a first apron team right now?

Winforlose is correct, pointing out that it takes an action that is restricted to lock you into an apron, and hard cap your payroll at that salary level. But effectively we face the same apron penalties because the CBA determines if deals are legal after they are completed. As we see in the KD trade, if we want to aggregate salary, we need to end up under the apron after the trade is completed for the deal to be legal.

In the meantime, we aren’t hardcapped. For example, we are well above the second apron, but we could still add to our payroll by signing a vet min player tomorrow. Contrast that with the Lakers, who are hardcapped, and only like $70k under the cap. They are forced to make no moves that take them over the cap, and as such, could only sign a vet min player very late in the season, when the pro-rated remainder of a vet min contract is less than $70k.

Correct. Aprons and hard caps are two different things and should not be used interchangeably.

[shrink]

Correct. Aprons and hard caps are two different things and should not be used interchangeably.

Wow, are we on the same page! I just edited in a line to point that out, just as you were posting!

[Klomp]

The way the CBA does this is unnecessarily confusing to me.

This brings up another point: A lot of people are confused by the CBA's legalese. Even "cap experts" who are paid the big bucks by ESPN have gotten things wrong and misinterpreted a line or two over the last year.

Which brings up something else: It wouldn't be surprising if language is cleaned up and some restrictions and penalties are softened. In general, I don't know that the NBA can look at the Luka Doncic trade as a good thing for the league as a whole. I don't think they can look at a longtime team owner of a historic franchise coming off winning an NBA championship and deciding to sell the team to get out from under impending luxury tax bills as a good thing.

[winforlose]

Mike Conley 16,000 career points
Kevin Durant 30,000 career points

Totally should be talked about in the same breath as if they are the same exact player....

I read all your responses, this one was my favorite. You made my point for me and didn’t realize it.

1. There is more to winning than points scored.

2. The numbers might suggest a player is essential to winning (2-11 without KD, 3-6 without Mike,) but that is not the full story.

[Note30]

End of the day one of two things is true. Either KD is the missing piece to winning a championship (or at least contending for one,) or acquiring him is a bad move. If the former now the question becomes whether we could get there and be better off in the long run by having gone the long way around and developed sustainably? Or, is this a golden opportunity that if missed might never come around again?

Sorry, I just cannot agree with this....

First of all, it means every move has to be essentially championship or bust.

Secondly, it means that there is no time to allow for progressive development. For example, after just one year everyone was convinced trading for Gobert was a horrible move. And by your explanation here, there's no going back on that because he wasn't the missing piece for that 2022-23 team.

And by that, everything in the tenure for Anthony Edwards has been a colossal failure so everying needs to be blown up yesterday. There's nothing that can be done. It's over. Fold the team. After all, every acquisition has to be the missing piece to a championship or it's a bad move.

When you cap your flexibility for the foreseeable future every move has to be a championship or bust type move.

There is no recourse.

I'm still convinced it was a horrible move.

I don't know about colossal failure but this team did not win a ring in its most stacked and best version that is abject failure.

I'm sick of this but we got to the WCF nonsense. Just because we have sucked and will continue to suck doesn't mean we should accept table scraps.

We as fans have accepted a culture of poor performance and anything above that is a massive win.

Everything should be viewed under the lens of "as a road to championship".

[Klomp]

1. There is more to winning than points scored.

Don't you have to score more points than the other team in order to win though?

[winforlose]

Sorry, I just cannot agree with this....

First of all, it means every move has to be essentially championship or bust.

Secondly, it means that there is no time to allow for progressive development. For example, after just one year everyone was convinced trading for Gobert was a horrible move. And by your explanation here, there's no going back on that because he wasn't the missing piece for that 2022-23 team.

And by that, everything in the tenure for Anthony Edwards has been a colossal failure so everying needs to be blown up yesterday. There's nothing that can be done. It's over. Fold the team. After all, every acquisition has to be the missing piece to a championship or it's a bad move.

Klomp you cannot keep doing this man. Obviously Ant in his early 20s or Gobert in his early 30s is not the same thing as KD at 37. If it takes a year to gel he is 38 and if he wants a max that is over 60 million. If he retires at 39 that is two years and two cracks at this. Meanwhile we gave up players who could be useful in year 3.

P.S. the Gobert trade was a little bit of an overpay but I loved the spirit of it to pair KAT and Rudy together and it gets better with Jaden. Take KAT out of the equation and it was a TRAVESTY! KAT would have been more valuable than Rudy to this franchise. We would also have a ton of picks to use as ammunition to get longer term cheaper players than Rudy. The 2nd apron must have really blindsided Glen, because all signs said spend to win, and we took one look at the 2nd apron and said **** it, let’s save money and to hell with the team, the fans, the title chase, and everything else. You saw the potential of the twin towers done right, and now you’re seeing what happens when you sell low on KAT.

There are a lot of "what ifs" there...

There always are when talking about the future or alternate futures. Your what if is (paraphrasing here)“what if KD is a massive upgrade that instantly makes us a contender?” My what if is what if he is not?

The Gobert deal sent picks and players out. There is a straight line to the KAT trade as well. Making the wrong trade can cause serious hurt to a franchise. As a team that just went through it, I am not eager for us to take that kind of risk again. Especially with limited future assets and for a player who will be 37 and expiring.

[Klomp]

I'm sick of this but we got to the WCF nonsense. Just because we have sucked and will continue to suck doesn't mean we should accept table scraps.

So being one of the four best teams in the league is now table scraps?

[winforlose]

1. There is more to winning than points scored.

Don't you have to score more points than the other team in order to win though?

lol, then how did we beat the blazers without Ant? He is our best scorer? How did we beat anyone without DDV, he was our second best scorer?