Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[Jcool0]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

You might have more of a point if he was 28 & more of a finished product, but he wont be 23 till next season and has gotten better each year. If we had a team full of Josh Giddey types we would probably be a playoff team.

[Stratmaster]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

[sco]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

I do think tanking is a good strategy, but AK has never suggested for a moment that it is his approach. I think his plan has been to gather young "vets" like Giddey and try to avoid the usual tanking outcome of losing for 5+ seasons (IMO, mainly to show hope quicker and save his job...I'll point at SA's losing season in Wemby's 2nd year as an example of that nabbing that #1 isn't just a switch you turn on...look at Detroit as another example).

[WindyCityBorn]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

This unbelievably flawed thinking. Do you think every contender’s starting lineup is full of perfect unflattering players? You just want dump a potential very high level starters we land a superstar and then build around them? No.

[Jcool0]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

I do think tanking is a good strategy, but AK has never suggested for a moment that it is his approach. I think his plan has been to gather young "vets" like Giddey and try to avoid the usual tanking outcome of losing for 5+ seasons (IMO, mainly to show hope quicker and save his job...I'll point at SA's losing season in Wemby's 2nd year as an example of that nabbing that #1 isn't just a switch you turn on...look at Detroit as another example).

If AK keeps the pick. I honestly believe it doesn't change anything for next year if he gets Cooper at #1 or Tre Johnson at #7.

[League Circles]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

You might have more of a point if he was 28 & more of a finished product, but he wont be 23 till next season and has gotten better each year. If we had a team full of Josh Giddey types we would probably be a playoff team.

Most of his per 100 numbers have been remarkably flat throughout his career. His scoring volume is actually down 10-15%. Not saying he hasn't improved at all cause I admit I didn't watch him in OKC, but IMO, we actually already DO have have a rotation full of Josh Giddey types. I very much view him as a similar caliber overall talent to Smith, Patrick, Ayo, Ball, Coby. He's not a talented as Matas, though I would say he's probably a bit more talented than Vuc.

[Jcool0]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

You might have more of a point if he was 28 & more of a finished product, but he wont be 23 till next season and has gotten better each year. If we had a team full of Josh Giddey types we would probably be a playoff team.

Most of his per 100 numbers have been remarkably flat throughout his career. His scoring volume is actually down 10-15%. Not saying he hasn't improved at all cause I admit I didn't watch him in OKC, but IMO, we actually already DO have have a rotation full of Josh Giddey types. I very much view him as a similar caliber overall talent to Smith, Patrick, Ayo, Ball, Coby. He's not a talented as Matas, though I would say he's probably a bit more talented than Vuc.

Now we know the very big flaw in your thinking. FWIW we have no idea what Matas will be and im a big Matas guy. If he gets to Giddey level that will be big next year.

[Ice Man]

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

Totally agree with Strat. I either do a Hard Yes or a Hard No on his opinions, and this one is a Hard Yes.

[League Circles]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

Of course I WANT to see Giddey emerge as a great player. There just isn't a lot to suggest that he's on that track.

20 ppg????? He averages under 13. You don't get to treat his hot streak as the new real Giddey after trashing Coby White endlessly while he actually does average over 18 a game.

It's just funny that tons of the same people that are sure we suck and need to tank for multiple years are excited to pencil in a super slow, unathletic, not-good-shooting Giddey to run our offense long term.

I didn't want to tank either. One of the reasons is that I'm aware at how easy it is to ruin a tank and how likely that is by the emergence of floor raisers like Giddey.

[jnrjr79]

Bulls need to trade Coby and Vuc this offseason and just hand the team to Giddey, Matas and whoever we end up drafting.

Don't forget Williams. He also needs to go in one of those trades

It's easy to assert that a guy playing terribly on an expensive contract "needs to go," but precisely because he needs to go is why he probably won't. Pat may be getting to the point where you have to attach draft capital to him to move him. Under those circumstances, you're probably stuck with him, because doing that doesn't make any sense.

[League Circles]

You might have more of a point if he was 28 & more of a finished product, but he wont be 23 till next season and has gotten better each year. If we had a team full of Josh Giddey types we would probably be a playoff team.

Most of his per 100 numbers have been remarkably flat throughout his career. His scoring volume is actually down 10-15%. Not saying he hasn't improved at all cause I admit I didn't watch him in OKC, but IMO, we actually already DO have have a rotation full of Josh Giddey types. I very much view him as a similar caliber overall talent to Smith, Patrick, Ayo, Ball, Coby. He's not a talented as Matas, though I would say he's probably a bit more talented than Vuc.

Now we know the very big flaw in your thinking. FWIW we have no idea what Matas will be and im a big Matas guy. If he gets to Giddey level that will be big next year.

Of course we don't know what Matas will be and I'm not saying he's better than Giddey now. I'm saying he's more talented, because I've seen them both play. Matas is light years ahead of him as an athlete and body.

[WindyCityBorn]

Bulls need to trade Coby and Vuc this offseason and just hand the team to Giddey, Matas and whoever we end up drafting.

Don't forget Williams. He also needs to go in one of those trades

It's easy to assert that a guy playing terribly on an expensive contract "needs to go," but precisely because he needs to go is why he probably won't. Pat may be getting to the point where you have to attach draft capital to him to move him. Under those circumstances, you're probably stuck with him, because doing that doesn't make any sense.

Yeah can’t be giving up assets to move a contract unless it involves clearing up space to acquire a star. We’re a long way from that being a realistic possibility.

[League Circles]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

This unbelievably flawed thinking. Do you think every contender’s starting lineup is full of perfect unflattering players? You just want dump a potential very high level starters we land a superstar and then build around them? No.

Of course every contender's lineup isn't full of perfect players.

I don't see him as a potential very high level starter. His role as a starter would only ever be to run an offense as the primary ball handler. Do you honestly believe he has a reasonable chance to be a top 5 guy in the world doing that? Even if we ignore the 50% of the game that is defense, why would we think that he has a chance to be elite after 4 full seasons of starting and most definitely NOT playing at an elite level?

I think OK players get in the way of potential actual good players. Via their salaries, their playing time, and their negative impact on our draft positioning.

It's always tricky cause you never know and usually need to make a decision before it's obvious.

There is a reason that we've only committed long term to one or two primary ball handlers since the dynasty: good ones are hard to find and settling for mediocre ones is a mirage. Until we can find one worth committing to, I'd rather proceed without one like we have for most of the last 27 years and remain more flexible and not so reliant on one limited guy.

[Jcool0]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

Of course I WANT to see Giddey emerge as a great player. There just isn't a lot to suggest that he's on that track.

20 ppg????? He averages under 13. You don't get to treat his hot streak as the new real Giddey after trashing Coby White endlessly while he actually does average over 18 a game.

It's just funny that tons of the same people that are sure we suck and need to tank for multiple years are excited to pencil in a super slow, unathletic, not-good-shooting Giddey to run our offense long term.

I didn't want to tank either. One of the reasons is that I'm aware at how easy it is to ruin a tank and how likely that is by the emergence of floor raisers like Giddey.

How many games do you need to change your opinion? Over his last 30 games he is shooting 40% from 3 and 86% on FTs.

[ChettheJet]

Giddey is having a very strong 3 game stretch and looks like the guy you want to have around rather than some 2nd round pick in the G League. that said, it's 3 games I still want to see what he ends up looking like between now and 3 games left in the season before I start to worry about what contract he rates. He's still part of a very large group of guards none of which has stood out above the rest all year.

[WindyCityBorn]

The excitement over Giddey is frankly hilarious in light of the mantras of most posters saying how important it is that we be bad for multiple years in the future in order to be able to draft really talented players.

You can't really insist that we tank/rebuild/start over blah blah blah if you are excited to commit long term to a quite flawed yet effective floor raiser like Giddey. It's like the exact opposite of what most have been saying they want. Predictable, but hilarious.

He's a fine player and all, might even run a good offense eventually. But he's just a different flavor of the types of guys we've had.

This unbelievably flawed thinking. Do you think every contender’s starting lineup is full of perfect unflattering players? You just want dump a potential very high level starters we land a superstar and then build around them? No.

Of course every contender's lineup isn't full of perfect players.

I don't see him as a potential very high level starter. His role as a starter would only ever be to run an offense as the primary ball handler. Do you honestly believe he has a reasonable chance to be a top 5 guy in the world doing that? Even if we ignore the 50% of the game that is defense, why would we think that he has a chance to be elite after 4 full seasons of starting and most definitely NOT playing at an elite level?

I think OK players get in the way of potential actual good players. Via their salaries, their playing time, and their negative impact on our draft positioning.

It's always tricky cause you never know and usually need to make a decision before it's obvious.

There is a reason that we've only committed long term to one or two primary ball handlers since the dynasty: good ones are hard to find and settling for mediocre ones is a mirage. Until we can find one worth committing to, I'd rather proceed without one like we have for most of the last 27 years and remain more flexible and not so reliant on one limited guy.

Agree to disagree.

[League Circles]

Well to br fair to "some" of us... We didn't all want to tank. Some of us wanted to see Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Matas, Smith lineups all season long.

If you are rebuilding I don't really understand the thought process that you DON'T want to see a 22 year old point guard emerge as a high quality NBA player.

A 22yo guy starts putting up 20+ ppg, double digit rebounds, is getting blocks and steals at a Caruso level.... all while running the point... and we should be what? Devastated?

Of course I WANT to see Giddey emerge as a great player. There just isn't a lot to suggest that he's on that track.

20 ppg????? He averages under 13. You don't get to treat his hot streak as the new real Giddey after trashing Coby White endlessly while he actually does average over 18 a game.

It's just funny that tons of the same people that are sure we suck and need to tank for multiple years are excited to pencil in a super slow, unathletic, not-good-shooting Giddey to run our offense long term.

I didn't want to tank either. One of the reasons is that I'm aware at how easy it is to ruin a tank and how likely that is by the emergence of floor raisers like Giddey.

How many games do you need to change your opinion? Over his last 30 games he is shooting 40% from 3 and 86% on FTs.

It's much more about how he's played by opposing defenses than his percentages. And of course the 50% of the game that is defense. Even if he becomes an average starter on D, which I think is quite unlikely, he still won't be the kind of guy I want to sign to a big 4 or 5 year deal to be a starter.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[cocktailswith_2short]

I'm just happy he's playing well enough to even have these discussions .

[Guru]

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Sucks