KD = Which 2025 1st?

[Godaddycurse]

I will give you Jalen Green, Jock Landale and the 2025 Phoenix pick provided it doesn't jump top 4.

That would be my only offer for Kevin Durant. You might be able to haggle 2 additional 2nd round picks, but unlikely.

So a negative contract in Jalen Green, a negative value in Jock, and a pick in the late lottery?

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

No they would not give 2 1sts for him. Hes in running for the worst contracts vote right now

[ReggiesKnicks]

I will give you Jalen Green, Jock Landale and the 2025 Phoenix pick provided it doesn't jump top 4.

That would be my only offer for Kevin Durant. You might be able to haggle 2 additional 2nd round picks, but unlikely.

So a negative contract in Jalen Green, a negative value in Jock, and a pick in the late lottery?

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

21 points on well below league average efficiency.

27% USG% to 15% AST%

Just to illustrate this point, the only players with a USG% higher than Jalen Green who have an AST% < 20% are 3 Big Men, AD/Wemby/Jaren Jackson Jr.

The players who have a USG% > 25% and a lower AST% than Jalen Green

Jaren Jackson Jr: 59.6 TS%
Norman Powell: 63.3 TS%
Karl-Anthony Towns: 63.9%
Kyle Kuzma: 49.3 TS%

Jalen Green: 55.0 TS%

And, now let's look at Houston. Decent squad, defensive first team, in the playoffs hunt.

Every single player on the team has a positive On/Off except 3.

Dillon Brooks (-1.0)
Amen Thompson (-1.0)
Jalen Green (-11.5)

But get this....

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with Green, they are -4.4.

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with everyone but Green, they are +20.1.

Sample sizes are small, so include last year.

Amen + Dillon, no Green: +15.16
Amen + Dillon + Green: -3.66

Now, what was Jalen Greens On/Off last year? A much more respectable -4.7, but still bad.

You can break down Jalen Green's situation and skill-set and ability however you want, and maybe down the road he becomes a good player, but nothing about him is a basketball player who can come into an organization and positively impact the game of basketball. Yes, he is just 23 years old, but how many 23 years old are bad at scoring, bad at impacting winning, bad playmakers and bad defenders and then turn it all around after being in the NBA for 4 years?

I'm not a betting man, but I bet not many.

[Slim Charless]

So a negative contract in Jalen Green, a negative value in Jock, and a pick in the late lottery?

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

21 points on well below league average efficiency.

27% USG% to 15% AST%

Just to illustrate this point, the only players with a USG% higher than Jalen Green who have an AST% < 20% are 3 Big Men, AD/Wemby/Jaren Jackson Jr.

The players who have a USG% > 25% and a lower AST% than Jalen Green

Jaren Jackson Jr: 59.6 TS%
Norman Powell: 63.3 TS%
Karl-Anthony Towns: 63.9%
Kyle Kuzma: 49.3 TS%

Jalen Green: 55.0 TS%

And, now let's look at Houston. Decent squad, defensive first team, in the playoffs hunt.

Every single player on the team has a positive On/Off except 3.

Dillon Brooks (-1.0)
Amen Thompson (-1.0)
Jalen Green (-11.5)

But get this....

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with Green, they are -4.4.

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with everyone but Green, they are +20.1.

Sample sizes are small, so include last year.

Amen + Dillon, no Green: +15.16
Amen + Dillon + Green: -3.66

Now, what was Jalen Greens On/Off last year? A much more respectable -4.7, but still bad.

You can break down Jalen Green's situation and skill-set and ability however you want, and maybe down the road he becomes a good player, but nothing about him is a basketball player who can come into an organization and positively impact the game of basketball. Yes, he is just 23 years old, but how many 23 years old are bad at scoring, bad at impacting winning, bad playmakers and bad defenders and then turn it all around after being in the NBA for 4 years?

I'm not a betting man, but I bet not many.

Whenever I watch him, I like to see how long it takes to pass without immediately asking for it back. Its almost comical how little he feels like giving it up.

[LarsV8]

Well a portion of it needs to be guaranteed if you are trading him, no?

So how much are you guaranteeing here?

I'll be straight with you, some people understand the complexities of dealing with this incredibly complicated CBA, and some people just don't. If you don't get it, that's all good.

What don't I understand?

Jock Landale's contract is non-guaranteed but it has to be guaranteed in order to be traded

If I am missing something, instead of being condescending, maybe provide an explanation. We are all friends here.

Because it isn't just a non guaranteed contract, it's a multiple year non guaranteed with team option to boot.

It's an incredibly flexible roster building tool that can be utilized not just as filler, but as a contingency player or back up plan. Its benefit rolls forward to boot, so it becomes useful to the next team as well.

There are subtleties to cap management that people rarely understand. This CBA is a faily brilliant framework of tools and contraints that require meticulous planning and creativity to avoid the catastrophic pitfalls designed to punish teams from blindly throwing endless salary at players to try and buy success. Teams either understand it, and use every tool at thier disposal to maximize the output of limited resources, or they don't and are dominated by it (Suns).

The Jock Landale contract is a shining example of an incredibly creative way to preserve an asset and a useful tool to navigate the CBA.

If you put yourself in the shoes of a GM, and atually simulate the series of decisions / deadlines and calculated gambles they have to take, while factoring in personalities, agents, egos, negotiations, you would recognize the value in what that contract offers.

[Astaluego]

So a negative contract in Jalen Green, a negative value in Jock, and a pick in the late lottery?

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

21 points on well below league average efficiency.

27% USG% to 15% AST%

Just to illustrate this point, the only players with a USG% higher than Jalen Green who have an AST% < 20% are 3 Big Men, AD/Wemby/Jaren Jackson Jr.

The players who have a USG% > 25% and a lower AST% than Jalen Green

Jaren Jackson Jr: 59.6 TS%
Norman Powell: 63.3 TS%
Karl-Anthony Towns: 63.9%
Kyle Kuzma: 49.3 TS%

Jalen Green: 55.0 TS%

And, now let's look at Houston. Decent squad, defensive first team, in the playoffs hunt.

Every single player on the team has a positive On/Off except 3.

Dillon Brooks (-1.0)
Amen Thompson (-1.0)
Jalen Green (-11.5)

But get this....

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with Green, they are -4.4.

When Brooks + Thompson share the floor with everyone but Green, they are +20.1.

Sample sizes are small, so include last year.

Amen + Dillon, no Green: +15.16
Amen + Dillon + Green: -3.66

Now, what was Jalen Greens On/Off last year? A much more respectable -4.7, but still bad.

You can break down Jalen Green's situation and skill-set and ability however you want, and maybe down the road he becomes a good player, but nothing about him is a basketball player who can come into an organization and positively impact the game of basketball. Yes, he is just 23 years old, but how many 23 years old are bad at scoring, bad at impacting winning, bad playmakers and bad defenders and then turn it all around after being in the NBA for 4 years?

I'm not a betting man, but I bet not many.

ok sir you shut my mouth

[zimpy27]

Not going to pile on in the Jalen Green thread.


In terms of OP. I think pick 4-8.

[DirtyDez]

I think Nico would give up all their picks but they’d have to gut their depth to match salary right?

[tmorgan]

You don’t see high volume, empty calories scoring on a legit team like Houston very often, but Jalen Green is an exception. It also underscores Houston’s problem in taking the next step to legit title contender — their offense isn’t good. Defense is obviously quite good, but if they intend to build around guys like Amen, Eason, and Jabari, they need to acquire some quality scoring. Thus the interest in KD or Booker.

Kinda similar to Orlando, actually, except Houston is further along with more quality pieces.

[Kiss of Death]

So a negative contract in Jalen Green, a negative value in Jock, and a pick in the late lottery?

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

No they would not give 2 1sts for him. Hes in running for the worst contracts vote right now

That’s your evidence? BRB I’m gonna go add Wemby to that list. Good news Rockets fans! We can get Wemby for a second round pick because he’s on a list of the worst NBA contracts on RealGM!

[Godaddycurse]

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

No they would not give 2 1sts for him. Hes in running for the worst contracts vote right now

That’s your evidence? BRB I’m gonna go add Wemby to that list. Good news Rockets fans! We can get Wemby for a second round pick because he’s on a list of the worst NBA contracts on RealGM!

Wemby is on the best contract/trade value list, not worst. are you blind?

[Kiss of Death]

No they would not give 2 1sts for him. Hes in running for the worst contracts vote right now

That’s your evidence? BRB I’m gonna go add Wemby to that list. Good news Rockets fans! We can get Wemby for a second round pick because he’s on a list of the worst NBA contracts on RealGM!

Wemby is on the best contract/trade value list, not worst. are you blind?

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Jalen Green negative contract??? I understand that he has flaws, but in my opinion a 23 year old kid with a lot of room for improvement, a starter at the 4/5 seed and averaging + 21 points, .. is not a negative contract, .. (for example) wouldn't the Magic give his 2 FRP and equivalent money for him? (in my opinion they should) or wouldn't the HORNETS give a couple of FRP (Mavs/Heat?) they should also in my opinion....

No they would not give 2 1sts for him. Hes in running for the worst contracts vote right now

That’s your evidence? BRB I’m gonna go add Wemby to that list. Good news Rockets fans! We can get Wemby for a second round pick because he’s on a list of the worst NBA contracts on RealGM!

Read my post for my thoughts on Jalen Green. I'm sure GoDaddy has similar reservations.

[james vincent]

Giving up a top 4 pick for a player that’s going to be 37 at the beginning of the next season is extremely risky for a rebuilding situation. I can only see Philly doing so (if they get their pick this year) if it meant dumping Paul George but I could be very wrong on that.

[Billl]

KD will be 37 by the start of next season. If you have one of the worst records in the league, you shouldn't even consider trading for KD. I'm sure there are some contending teams that might trade for (or already have traded for) a good pick, but that is just so team specific that I'm not sure it makes any sense to say "KD is worth #x".

[Godaddycurse]

That’s your evidence? BRB I’m gonna go add Wemby to that list. Good news Rockets fans! We can get Wemby for a second round pick because he’s on a list of the worst NBA contracts on RealGM!

Wemby is on the best contract/trade value list, not worst. are you blind?

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

another poster explained why green is bad in the actual real world too, which is why we vote him as one of the worst contract/value

[LarsV8]

Wemby is on the best contract/trade value list, not worst. are you blind?

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

another poster explained why green is bad in the actual real world too, which is why we vote him as one of the worst contract/value

Do the same for Banchero.

[Pattycakes]

Well a portion of it needs to be guaranteed if you are trading him, no?

So how much are you guaranteeing here?

I'll be straight with you, some people understand the complexities of dealing with this incredibly complicated CBA, and some people just don't. If you don't get it, that's all good.

What don't I understand?

Jock Landale's contract is non-guaranteed but it has to be guaranteed in order to be traded

If I am missing something, instead of being condescending, maybe provide an explanation. We are all friends here.

You’re clearly in the presence of the cba God. We mere mortals are simply lucky to even share the same interwebs as such a great individual

[Godaddycurse]

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

another poster explained why green is bad in the actual real world too, which is why we vote him as one of the worst contract/value

Do the same for Banchero.

Banchero isnt signed to a big extension (yet) and he's in his 3rd year, not 4th like Jalen. If Banchero continues to struggle next year and has a big extension on the books then his value will take a hit as well.

[ReggiesKnicks]

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

another poster explained why green is bad in the actual real world too, which is why we vote him as one of the worst contract/value

Do the same for Banchero.

Paolo isn't on an extension yet

[Slim Charless]

That went right over your head, huh.

Anybody can add any name of any player that they don't like to that list (which is generally what happens on this website).

That does not mean a thing in the actual, real world.

another poster explained why green is bad in the actual real world too, which is why we vote him as one of the worst contract/value

Do the same for Banchero.

Banchero isnt making 33 million a year