2024-2025 Regular Season Game 62: Toronto Raptors (18-42) at Orlando Magic (29-32) - 6pm

[KillMonger]

And for Paolo's mom, Magic with her son is 10 - 17 on a season. 19 - 19 with him out. Maybe lets at least get to 19 wins with Paolo assistance first before putting a blame on a coach.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

Yeah.......you thought you ate with this one huh? There is a lot of context missing with those numbers.... Who was playing and who wasn't?

Sent from my [Sidekick 5G] using RealGM mobile app

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

22 and 23 respectively, these are the guys you build around.... Why did we make it so hard? Some don't get this lucky

[GelbeWand09]

It's pretty clear why we doesn't defend anymore on a high level. You either have 2-3 elite point of attack defenders or/and one of the 3-4 really impactful elite defensive Bigs, if you want a top 5 defense.
Our current team doesn't have any of those. Til Suggs went down we had the former in him, AB and pre injury KCP + Franz versatile combination of PoA and perimeter. Because of the position limitation, a single PoA defender got much less impact than a defense big. They are impactful by committee. Like OKC, Hou or the Chi combo of Ball & Caruso, who was able to cover Vuc.

Last year we at least had a part time true elite Def. Big but Chubby Isaac version fell from top 3 to top 40 defender in the leaque. Goga past injury isn't the same and they play WCJ for theoretically more offense and spacing next to Paolo but this means we have Vuc like rim protection at the Center spot without Vucs elite rebounding.
Than you add reintegrating one of our worst defenders in Paolo who plays the most minutes and is defensively the worst fit with WCJ and you have horrible bigman defense.
Our good defenders left are either just very good man to man defender in Franz and AB but they doesn't have intanglebles and energy to level up the rest of the team like a Suggs, Caruso or Dort can. The other 2 (Goga & KCP) are not the same since coming back from injury and additional in Gogas case, a victim of the system/Paolo coming back.

What I wanna say. I'm not the biggest Mosley fan but a lot of the downfall is pretty easy to explain and a lot of the reason have not much to do with Mosley. Even when he motivates Paolo or WCJ to the fullest on defense, that won't solve their physical/instinct limitations. Even playing there best defense, Franz, AB and KCP still won't have the influence on defense of Suggs because they are limited to individual defense and doesn't upgrade the other players around them with energy like him. His motivation or x&os won't solve that we doesn't have a Isaac anymore who could defend a whole team by himself for a few possessions a game, which had great individual defensive influence and was energizing the other players like Suggs hustle plays.

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

22 and 23 respectively, these are the guys you build around.... Why did we make it so hard? Some don't get this lucky

Those are empty numbers tbh.
if you had actually two- as impactful as it looks scorers & all around well rounded players, no matter who supporting cast is, you would have at least competent offense.

Not that isn't case, you have 3rd worst offense with two worst being epic- tankers.

Last 15 games ( both Paolo & Franz played ) Magic still have 107 offensive rating. 107 offensive rating would be considered below average - 11 years ago.

We put way too much blame on "supporting cast" when in reality 60%- 70% off offensive load is carried out by two players.
And that is root issue with our offense. Predictable and people not involved.

But if others are more involved, it would mean Franz & Paolo simply average worst numbers.


Last night i watched Boston vs Denver, and by just watching 5 min of that game it becomes jarring how different those teams play offense vs our.
They accumulate points by involving everybody, that keeps defense honest and there is so little sloooooow iso plays.

Like , leading shot taker on Nuggets was Braun. On Celtics, Horford got 12 shots, in Cavs- Blazers game, Cavs leading shot takers was Ty Jerome, Hunter & Struss got 15 shots each.

If somebody has extra time to spend, feel free to find last game where Paolo and Franz didn't lead team in FGA.

Not only that they take most shots every night, they also often take 50% of all shots ( sometimes even more).

[Blue_and_Whte]

Amongst other things… All of the possessions were nothing was going on is another example of needing a REAL pg.

[drsd]

[drsd]

Boxscore thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% battle and lost the game.

The Magic dominated made FTs (+13). But that was offset by the higher FG% and a Raptors domination in made FGAs (Orlando -7)\

In a 2-point loss, it's always the margins. This margin was FG%. In fact, the Magic make only one more FG, for example the last shot of the game, this is a different post.

F************************CCCCCCCCCC**************** (and some other letter)

This loss sucks.

[drsd]

What I like about the 7-21 three-point attempt line is not the 33% (which is actually bad, just not horrible), but rather the reduction to 21 attempts.
All the foul shots prove that the Magic must be taking this low20s range of three-balls.
Pound it inside. That has to be the path for the next 20+ games.

[drsd]

Amongst other things… All of the possessions were nothing was going on is another example of needing a REAL pg.

And-1

17 assists on 30 made FGs. That's a horrible rate of distribution.

When is the Magic going to learn the PnR, the most effective set play in modern basketball???

[drsd]

Those are empty numbers tbh.

And-1

As said before when a similar tweet was posted, in an expanded form here, the forwards combine for less than 4 made three-balls on twelve attemps per game.

They are shooting 30% on 12 attempts a game. That's not ok.

If the goal is heroball, stop jacking up pointless threes, literally pointless!

[Knightro]

It's pretty clear why we doesn't defend anymore on a high level. You either have 2-3 elite point of attack defenders or/and one of the 3-4 really impactful elite defensive Bigs, if you want a top 5 defense.
Our current team doesn't have any of those. Til Suggs went down we had the former in him, AB and pre injury KCP + Franz versatile combination of PoA and perimeter. Because of the position limitation, a single PoA defender got much less impact than a defense big. They are impactful by committee. Like OKC, Hou or the Chi combo of Ball & Caruso, who was able to cover Vuc.

Last year we at least had a part time true elite Def. Big but Chubby Isaac version fell from top 3 to top 40 defender in the leaque. Goga past injury isn't the same and they play WCJ for theoretically more offense and spacing next to Paolo but this means we have Vuc like rim protection at the Center spot without Vucs elite rebounding.
Than you add reintegrating one of our worst defenders in Paolo who plays the most minutes and is defensively the worst fit with WCJ and you have horrible bigman defense.
Our good defenders left are either just very good man to man defender in Franz and AB but they doesn't have intanglebles and energy to level up the rest of the team like a Suggs, Caruso or Dort can. The other 2 (Goga & KCP) are not the same since coming back from injury and additional in Gogas case, a victim of the system/Paolo coming back.

What I wanna say. I'm not the biggest Mosley fan but a lot of the downfall is pretty easy to explain and a lot of the reason have not much to do with Mosley. Even when he motivates Paolo or WCJ to the fullest on defense, that won't solve their physical/instinct limitations. Even playing there best defense, Franz, AB and KCP still won't have the influence on defense of Suggs because they are limited to individual defense and doesn't upgrade the other players around them with energy like him. His motivation or x&os won't solve that we doesn't have a Isaac anymore who could defend a whole team by himself for a few possessions a game, which had great individual defensive influence and was energizing the other players like Suggs hustle plays.

If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the problem.

That’s all I can say.

If all of Mosley’s limitations and failures as a coach can be explained away by the personnel on the roster, then he’s not the coach this team needs anyway.

It is never going to be a flawless roster. If he can’t get this group to consistently defend at a high level and stop getting routinely out hustled, then he just doesn’t need to be here.

[GelbeWand09]

Read on Twitter

If somebody has extra time to spend, feel free to find last game where Paolo and Franz didn't lead team in FGA.

The bad thing is even if Mosley wanted to, he doesnt even have the roster to do it. Who should take the shots? This is even with Suggs the least skilled backcourt in the leaque. You only have PG who cant dribble, who cant offer any dribble penetration or in Suggs case only in reckless fashion. Your only other ballhandler is Cole who can't shoot, can't finish & has no PG vision. You have only SG's who are spot up shooter. Center without offensive skills, that doesnt even offer vertical spacing.
Our other wings outside of Paolo & Franz are super slow footed & unathletic in TDS & Howard (& Black ).
Your 2 Star wings are good passers but completely overrated in that part by most fans & the FO and not neeeeaaaaarrrrrly good enough to play without a real PG.

So NOBODY can create his own shot or dribble penetration & as spot up shooters they are one of the worst bunch in the modern era. Plus all are limited to spot up 3's except Jett who at least has more variety in his 3's but doesnt hit them anyway.

Just complete mess of offensive roster building.

[GelbeWand09]

It's pretty clear why we doesn't defend anymore on a high level. You either have 2-3 elite point of attack defenders or/and one of the 3-4 really impactful elite defensive Bigs, if you want a top 5 defense.
Our current team doesn't have any of those. Til Suggs went down we had the former in him, AB and pre injury KCP + Franz versatile combination of PoA and perimeter. Because of the position limitation, a single PoA defender got much less impact than a defense big. They are impactful by committee. Like OKC, Hou or the Chi combo of Ball & Caruso, who was able to cover Vuc.

Last year we at least had a part time true elite Def. Big but Chubby Isaac version fell from top 3 to top 40 defender in the leaque. Goga past injury isn't the same and they play WCJ for theoretically more offense and spacing next to Paolo but this means we have Vuc like rim protection at the Center spot without Vucs elite rebounding.
Than you add reintegrating one of our worst defenders in Paolo who plays the most minutes and is defensively the worst fit with WCJ and you have horrible bigman defense.
Our good defenders left are either just very good man to man defender in Franz and AB but they doesn't have intanglebles and energy to level up the rest of the team like a Suggs, Caruso or Dort can. The other 2 (Goga & KCP) are not the same since coming back from injury and additional in Gogas case, a victim of the system/Paolo coming back.

What I wanna say. I'm not the biggest Mosley fan but a lot of the downfall is pretty easy to explain and a lot of the reason have not much to do with Mosley. Even when he motivates Paolo or WCJ to the fullest on defense, that won't solve their physical/instinct limitations. Even playing there best defense, Franz, AB and KCP still won't have the influence on defense of Suggs because they are limited to individual defense and doesn't upgrade the other players around them with energy like him. His motivation or x&os won't solve that we doesn't have a Isaac anymore who could defend a whole team by himself for a few possessions a game, which had great individual defensive influence and was energizing the other players like Suggs hustle plays.

If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the problem.

That’s all I can say.

If all of Mosley’s limitations and failures as a coach can be explained away by the personnel on the roster, then he’s not the coach this team needs anyway.

It is never going to be a flawless roster. If he can’t get this group to consistently defend at a high level and stop getting routinely out hustled, then he just doesn’t need to be here.

I doesnt wrote ALL, just that alot of our defensive problems are roster construction, injuries and players coming back worse from injury. We still should be better, more prepared & play with more urgency and hustle.
I have no problem letting Mosley go. I think he is def. part of the horrible offense & as the longtime coach he probably got big influence on the horrible roster building too. I'm tired of defensive only coaches anyway. I wanted Atkinson for years and never understood why he doesnt got a new headcoaching gig after his really good Nets stint.

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

22 and 23 respectively, these are the guys you build around.... Why did we make it so hard? Some don't get this lucky

Those are empty numbers tbh.
if you had actually two- as impactful as it looks scorers & all around well rounded players, no matter who supporting cast is, you would have at least competent offense.

Not that isn't case, you have 3rd worst offense with two worst being epic- tankers.

Last 15 games ( both Paolo & Franz played ) Magic still have 107 offensive rating. 107 offensive rating would be considered below average - 11 years ago.

We put way too much blame on "supporting cast" when in reality 60%- 70% off offensive load is carried out by two players.
And that is root issue with our offense. Predictable and people not involved.

But if others are more involved, it would mean Franz & Paolo simply average worst numbers.


Last night i watched Boston vs Denver, and by just watching 5 min of that game it becomes jarring how different those teams play offense vs our.
They accumulate points by involving everybody, that keeps defense honest and there is so little sloooooow iso plays.

Like , leading shot taker on Nuggets was Braun. On Celtics, Horford got 12 shots, in Cavs- Blazers game, Cavs leading shot takers was Ty Jerome, Hunter & Struss got 15 shots each.

If somebody has extra time to spend, feel free to find last game where Paolo and Franz didn't lead team in FGA.

Not only that they take most shots every night, they also often take 50% of all shots ( sometimes even more).

everything you said is spot on if you're talking about things as they are now....i don't care too much about the now, i care about how they're looking in their primes......you take these two guys build around them the right way, put them in a system and let's see what happens....you could do a hell of a lot worse than having these two guys as building blocks

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

If somebody has extra time to spend, feel free to find last game where Paolo and Franz didn't lead team in FGA.

The bad thing is even if Mosley wanted to, he doesnt even have the roster to do it. Who should take the shots? This is even with Suggs the least skilled backcourt in the leaque. You only have PG who cant dribble, who cant offer any dribble penetration or in Suggs case only in reckless fashion. Your only other ballhandler is Cole who can't shoot, can't finish & has no PG vision. You have only SG's who are spot up shooter. Center without offensive skills, that doesnt even offer vertical spacing.
Our other wings outside of Paolo & Franz are super slow footed & unathletic in TDS & Howard (& Black ).
Your 2 Star wings are good passers but completely overrated in that part by most fans & the FO and not neeeeaaaaarrrrrly good enough to play without a real PG.

So NOBODY can create his own shot or dribble penetration & as spot up shooters they are one of the worst bunch in the modern era. Plus all are limited to spot up 3's except Jett who at least has more variety in his 3's but doesnt hit them anyway.

Just complete mess of offensive roster building.

Normal offensive system would allow even limited players to get their share on offense. It's not like every nba player is dribble pull up maestro.
Like, Luke Kornet has games where he gets near 10 FGA.

Problem with offense right now that they are willingly go into Iso- Franz/ Paolo set plays without even trying to find anything else.

I would be okey if PB & FW end up with iso set play with 8 sec on the clock and nothing happening, but that's not a case, we enter half court and with 18 sec on the clock go into isolation action. LIke wtf? Why?

Watch on YouTube

Editing of this video is crazy, but pay attention as shot clock on Paolo's shot.
Mid range, fadeaway long 2s on set defense with 14 sec on the clock. That's what losing basketball looks like.

Real question is- is this on
1) Mosley for having no offense
2) supporting cast who can't score on it's own
3) or it's Paolo who simply only knows how to play like this

In reality all 3 parties add to current situation.

[I Rasharted]

Things are starting to get interesting. Off the court, not on it.

[zaymon]

Read on Twitter

22 and 23 respectively, these are the guys you build around.... Why did we make it so hard? Some don't get this lucky

becouse we are not in a position to feel good about ourselves.
its not about who Paolo is right now ( and he is bad) but who he will become.
If we guess wrong (and most indicators say he is not worth max) and give him the max than we can have some problems. He is propably at his peak value, thats what i think.

[drsd]

The bad thing is even if Mosley wanted to, he doesnt even have the roster to do it. Who should take the shots?

I 100% reject this narrative.

Nearly every play in Heroball starts with either F-Wagner or Banchero at the top of the key. If the other forward set a screen, then a pick and role results.

Watch this video and tell me that the pick and role cannot be led by both F-Wagner and Banchero, to the other. You can't.
This is the only play the Magic should run, in my opinion.

It won't be perfect until there are shooters in the corner. But for right now, F-Wagner and Banchero running PnRs at each other would be 12,000X more efficient than heroball. (Hyperbole, let's say in real terms it is 5% more efficient).

Watch on YouTube

[89Magicfan]

Winners come stronger from hard times, losers crumble.
I am not the biggest fan of Mosley but he is only part of the problem.
Biggest problem is Banchero and no real PG. Banchero is not a #1 option and will propably never be. If we pay him max we are screwed becouse we wont have money for real PG and Franz is much more important player.
Paying Suggs so much was a risk, we all knew that but he is very important to our team.
I will write it every time. We must trade Paolo this summer.

You haven’t been been paying attention until this season have you?

[eyriq]

Listening to Paolo’s presser and you can sense how frustrated he is with coaching. Wild times. I think we are getting to the point where we are failing above and beyond what injuries can explain. I doubt Mosley or Weltman are fired, the first step towards fixing this is a retool of players 4-15. Probably 2-4 new players are brought in.