2024-2025 Regular Season Game 62: Toronto Raptors (18-42) at Orlando Magic (29-32) - 6pm

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Paolo gets all the accolades when things go well
Paolo gets none of the criticism when things don’t go well.

What does the eye test tell you?
What do his advanced numbers tell you?

Quit being emotional about players that don’t know you exist. Paolo Banchero neither plays good defense, nor plays efficient offense. And yeah, I don’t care how old he is or how far into his career he is at this point. You are drafted #1 and in the league for 3 seasons? I have higher expectations for you than to make excuses for why you haven’t been good. You were given the keys and told to be a leader.

You got to be kidding me. All we have done was criticism him during this stretch. What some of us won’t do is break him down and then ask for him to be traded.

[Knightro]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

[AdamTheGreek]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

[VFX]

Paolo gets all the accolades when things go well
Paolo gets none of the criticism when things don’t go well.

What does the eye test tell you?
What do his advanced numbers tell you?

Quit being emotional about players that don’t know you exist. Paolo Banchero neither plays good defense, nor plays efficient offense. And yeah, I don’t care how old he is or how far into his career he is at this point. You are drafted #1 and in the league for 3 seasons? I have higher expectations for you than to make excuses for why you haven’t been good. You were given the keys and told to be a leader.

You got to be kidding me. All we have done was criticism him during this stretch. What some of us won’t do is break him down and then ask for him to be traded.

No. I'm not.

Really? All I hear is about how he doesn't have the perfect supporting cast of players around him and this weird quasi-blame game about how it's also Mosely but also not totally Mosely. Nobody is "breaking him down" please spare me with this emotional response. You think Paolo is reading this forum while he wipes his tears with his million dollar shoe deal signing and commercial appearances?

You don't want to hold players accountable for results, you also dont want to blame FO during the entire process leading up to this point, and then only want to kind of place blame on Mosely. (not you in particular just a lot of posters operate this way)

No, people don't get to be convenient with where they place blame. It is overwhelmingly always first the FO throughout the process. They hired a long time assistant and built a league worst offense over the course of 3-4 years of process. Paolo isn't exempt because you fear the slight off chance of repercussions from fans on a message board.

[VFX]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

[AdamTheGreek]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

Because of the double and triple teams he faces and that he often ends up with the ball at the end of shot clocks.

Paolo and Franz are not injured, or out of shape, they are playing back to their early season form.

[IllMagic04]

I know its been a frustrating year but the idea of trading our franchise cornerstone player cause he's had a few bad games is laughable. How long have we waited for a player like this? Well we finally got one. He was an all star last year. Averaged 27/8 in his first appearance in the playoffs. How bout we surround him with guys who aren't bricklayers and lets see how great he could look with legit spacing. Paolo will be an MVP candidate in this league and I don't even think thats a bold prediction. .

[89Magicfan]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

He’s the numero uno in getting doubled and tripled team in the entire NBA. You don’t think that has an impact on efficiency? That also doesn’t tell you how poorly our roster is constructed around him and Franz (Franz is up there too) since teams rather have others beat them then Paolo/Franz because it actually works and this whole idea of just getting others involved doesn’t work when you have the players we do?

[Ducklett]

I know its been a frustrating year but the idea of trading our franchise cornerstone player cause he's had a few bad games is laughable. How long have we waited for a player like this? Well we finally got one. He was an all star last year. Averaged 27/8 in his first appearance in the playoffs. How bout we surround him with guys who aren't bricklayers and lets see how great he could look with legit spacing. Paolo will be an MVP candidate in this league and I don't even think thats a bold prediction. .

We went and got KCP in the offseason who was a 40% 3 point shooter and now he is a 19% shooter. Gotta figure out how that happened before you get more shooters.

[IllMagic04]

I know its been a frustrating year but the idea of trading our franchise cornerstone player cause he's had a few bad games is laughable. How long have we waited for a player like this? Well we finally got one. He was an all star last year. Averaged 27/8 in his first appearance in the playoffs. How bout we surround him with guys who aren't bricklayers and lets see how great he could look with legit spacing. Paolo will be an MVP candidate in this league and I don't even think thats a bold prediction. .

We went and got KCP in the offseason who was a 40% 3 point shooter and now he is a 19% shooter. Gotta figure out how that happened before you get more shooters.

That is a fair point

[JoshuaPotter]

It's ok to admit that Paolo has absolutely sucked for the last two months. Because he has.

Doesn't mean this is who he is forever, but it's certainly who he is right this moment and it's not particularly fun to watch.

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

Paolo has played through nagging injuries and illness before. His rookie year he went like 0/100 from 3-ball from Feb - Mid March with a neck injury.

[AdamTheGreek]

He’s not fully back from the oblique tear recovery. He likely won’t be until the offseason.
Same with Franz (see missed game-tying layup tonight).
Except Paolo’s oblique tear was worse and he’s missed more time than Franz.
Paolo’s game is more reliant on physicality than Franz’s.

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

Paolo has played through nagging injuries and illness before. His rookie year he went like 0/100 from 3-ball from Feb - Mid March with a neck injury.

Shoulder stinger actually.

[JoshuaPotter]

Then he shouldn't be playing.

Why was he not efficient for large stretches of time last season when he wasnt injured?

Or is that not a convenient argument to dispel how bad he's been?

Paolo has played through nagging injuries and illness before. His rookie year he went like 0/100 from 3-ball from Feb - Mid March with a neck injury.

Shoulder stinger actually.

I don't have to be right. Just that it did happen.

[meatwad4343]

Paolo could be playing better but neither he nor Franz is the problem. This team is getting absolutely zero contribution from the other guys on the roster. Seems like if Paolo and Franz don't both push 30 a night it's a loss. The team is just so poorly constructed.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Paolo gets all the accolades when things go well
Paolo gets none of the criticism when things don’t go well.

What does the eye test tell you?
What do his advanced numbers tell you?

Quit being emotional about players that don’t know you exist. Paolo Banchero neither plays good defense, nor plays efficient offense. And yeah, I don’t care how old he is or how far into his career he is at this point. You are drafted #1 and in the league for 3 seasons? I have higher expectations for you than to make excuses for why you haven’t been good. You were given the keys and told to be a leader.

You got to be kidding me. All we have done was criticism him during this stretch. What some of us won’t do is break him down and then ask for him to be traded.

No. I'm not.

Really? All I hear is about how he doesn't have the perfect supporting cast of players around him and this weird quasi-blame game about how it's also Mosely but also not totally Mosely. Nobody is "breaking him down" please spare me with this emotional response. You think Paolo is reading this forum while he wipes his tears with his million dollar shoe deal signing and commercial appearances?

You don't want to hold players accountable for results, you also dont want to blame FO during the entire process leading up to this point, and then only want to kind of place blame on Mosely. (not you in particular just a lot of posters operate this way)

No, people don't get to be convenient with where they place blame. It is overwhelmingly always first the FO throughout the process. They hired a long time assistant and built a league worst offense over the course of 3-4 years of process. Paolo isn't exempt because you fear the slight off chance of repercussions from fans on a message board.

I know this fanbase is upset with how the season is going and we all have differing opinions on what needs to be done for this team to get back to winning but many of us aren’t only complaint about Paolo’s supporting cast. We have been vocal about his efficiency and his defense these past two months. But I am not willing to put this all on him. I am not going to break a guy down claiming he sucks in totality because he is having a bad two months, I understand his injury has been a large part of what is happening to his game. We have all watched him for two years, advanced stats or not, he doesn’t play like this. And if I can get through the years where we had to watch Big Baby Davis, Chris Duhon, Gustavo Aton, Channing Frye, Mario Hezonja (I liked him though), Bismack Biyombo, Jonathan Simmons, Al-Farouk Aminu, Mo Bamba, and Dwayne Bacon, you bet I can watch our #1 draft pick, rookie of the year, all star struggle through this season.

*BTW, there is no correlation to Paolo and these players. He is heads and shoulders better than anyone I have mentioned and I think Paolo has been our best player since Dwight left (although I know others will say Franz-fair enough). As bad as Paolo has been this season, he came in as a 19 year old averaging 20 points in an organization starving for wins and have been bottom 5 in shooting. As inefficient as he has been, I believe he can get better.

BTW, whether someone knows that I exist or not, or if they are rich or poor, I still don’t want their feeling hurt. That’s just my personality.

[Fortune Teller]

Paolo could be playing better but neither he nor Franz is the problem. This team is getting absolutely zero contribution from the other guys on the roster. Seems like if Paolo and Franz don't both push 30 a night it's a loss. The team is just so poorly constructed.

Correct. We keep harping on injuries to our 3 main guys, but that should’ve opened a door for at least one player to step up and have a career year. Not one single player has done that. Not one. Not $25 million Isaac, not $22 million KCP, not new contract Cole, not new contract WCJ. They’ve been awful. AB has been mediocre at best. Would 12 ppg and 5 apg been too much to ask of Black with Suggs out? Apparently it is. Gary Harris is non-functional. Jett should be back in the G League. Jeff is to blame here. It starts at the top and he needs to answer for hoarding all these players that have never shown they’re worth his commitment to them.

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

22 and 23 respectively, these are the guys you build around.... Why did we make it so hard? Some don't get this lucky

becouse we are not in a position to feel good about ourselves.
its not about who Paolo is right now ( and he is bad) but who he will become.
If we guess wrong (and most indicators say he is not worth max) and give him the max than we can have some problems. He is propably at his peak value, thats what i think.

I disagree, I think this is the worst Paolo and Franz will ever look....they both have quite the room to grow and it's the front office job to get the right guys around them.... This is how you build under this new CBA.... Gone are the days you can have 3 max players on the roster and have a good bench.... These days you get 2 max guys and a good bench.... We have our 2 we just have to do the rest... I'm not worried about the money it's not my money being spent.... All I care about is if we're about winning, I know Paolo is since I been following him since high school he cares a lot about winning and so does Franz.... We got two that cares and wants to win, half the battle is won

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[SloNick Russia]

It takes Cole like 10-15 secs to bring up the ball and pass it somebody, often he just goes in himself. Since our guards rotation is so terrible I suggest playing Franz at PG for the rest of the season, let him be the guy with the ball working on screens looking to set up Paolo or finish himself. TDS can be a guy parked in a corner or working on cuts, he is probably our best shooter anyway.
Let AB and Cole go with the second unit in case they can do sothething this time.
And trade for a quality guard in summer to play next to Suggs.

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[I Rasharted]

I honestly feel like there's too much panic going on here. I get it, this is excruciating right now. We're supposed to be better than this. We're not even defending well every night, let alone the atrocious shooting. I understand, it's absolutely maddening.

But I truly feel like things just weren't in the cards for us this season. I mean, we tried really hard and hung in there for a while through a lot of adversity. But eventually the morale just ran out and frustration took over, and we don't have the offensive talent to "brute force it" by simply shooting ourselves out of the hole. As pepe pointed out, "law of averages" would help us, but not drastically, since we're not a team of shooters.

Don't confuse my stance with me just being an apologist and making excuses for poor play, and wanting to run things back again. No, we absolutely need to bring in offensive talent and put our two young stars in a position to succeed. They still need to improve in their own right, but the team has to be better around them. It's a circular thing. The surrounding pieces help them, and they help the surrounding pieces. Right now the gears in that machine aren't even connecting, let alone turning.

We're not as bad off as it feels right now.

Watch on YouTube

[basketballRob]

It takes Cole like 10-15 secs to bring up the ball and pass it somebody, often he just goes in himself. Since our guards rotation is so terrible I suggest playing Franz at PG for the rest of the season, let him be the guy with the ball working on screens looking to set up Paolo or finish himself. TDS can be a guy parked in a corner or working on cuts, he is probably our best shooter anyway.
Let AB and Cole go with the second unit in case they can do sothething this time.
And trade for a quality guard in summer to play next to Suggs.

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It takes too much energy for Franz to play pg all game.

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