2024-25 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt. 3)

[HotelVitale]

Mentioned Isaiah Collier a while back and the dude is still putting up numbers. Honestly he would be a lock for this award just by his stats alone if he played more to start the year. It's actually pretty impressive what he's doing, even if it is on a bad team.

He averaged 12/10/4 on 45% shooting in 13 games in February, and 9/8/4 in January...He's been a walking dbl-dbl since becoming a starter for 26 games.

Dude is getting his numbers, and doing it on a team that is still featuring George, Sexton, and Clarkson as dudes that need the ball in their hands.

He should honestly be getting more love at this point, given all rookies are terrible, and this award usually goes to counting stats.

Just looked him up, stats are pretty ugly besides the dimes tbh. He’s at 10.7/4.5/9 per 36, which is okay if unspectacular for a rookie, but he’s also at 40% FG and 23% from deep, which comes out to 46% TS. And over 4 TOs per game.

That sounds more like a guy who has some interesting skills abilities to make things happen that could maybe blossom down the line, but is a pretty darn rough player as is. That’s gotta be the worst efficiency in the league, and on very low scoring volume too.

[Kiss of Death]

If he was getting minutes on a bad team like most rookies, he would be in the ROY conversation.
He just happened to get drafted by an already stacked playoff team.

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[Catchall]

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[TheSeeker]

Mentioned Isaiah Collier a while back and the dude is still putting up numbers. Honestly he would be a lock for this award just by his stats alone if he played more to start the year. It's actually pretty impressive what he's doing, even if it is on a bad team.

He averaged 12/10/4 on 45% shooting in 13 games in February, and 9/8/4 in January...He's been a walking dbl-dbl since becoming a starter for 26 games.

Dude is getting his numbers, and doing it on a team that is still featuring George, Sexton, and Clarkson as dudes that need the ball in their hands.

He should honestly be getting more love at this point, given all rookies are terrible, and this award usually goes to counting stats.

Just looked him up, stats are pretty ugly besides the dimes tbh. He’s at 10.7/4.5/9 per 36, which is okay if unspectacular for a rookie, but he’s also at 40% FG and 23% from deep, which comes out to 46% TS. And over 4 TOs per game.

That sounds more like a guy who has some interesting skills abilities to make things happen that could maybe blossom down the line, but is a pretty darn rough player as is. That’s gotta be the worst efficiency in the league, and on very low scoring volume too.

Collier definitely still needs to improve his outside shooting, but the numbers are a bit deceptive. He was shooting 15% from 3 for a while and took him a bit to get his bearings. He has improved a lot over the last couple of months. Hopefully he'll spend a lot of time working on his shot over the summer.

[HotelVitale]

Mentioned Isaiah Collier a while back and the dude is still putting up numbers. Honestly he would be a lock for this award just by his stats alone if he played more to start the year. It's actually pretty impressive what he's doing, even if it is on a bad team.

He averaged 12/10/4 on 45% shooting in 13 games in February, and 9/8/4 in January...He's been a walking dbl-dbl since becoming a starter for 26 games.

Dude is getting his numbers, and doing it on a team that is still featuring George, Sexton, and Clarkson as dudes that need the ball in their hands.

He should honestly be getting more love at this point, given all rookies are terrible, and this award usually goes to counting stats.

Just looked him up, stats are pretty ugly besides the dimes tbh. He’s at 10.7/4.5/9 per 36, which is okay if unspectacular for a rookie, but he’s also at 40% FG and 23% from deep, which comes out to 46% TS. And over 4 TOs per game.

That sounds more like a guy who has some interesting skills abilities to make things happen that could maybe blossom down the line, but is a pretty darn rough player as is. That’s gotta be the worst efficiency in the league, and on very low scoring volume too.

Collier definitely still needs to improve his outside shooting, but the numbers are a bit deceptive. He was shooting 15% from 3 for a while and took him a bit to get his bearings. He has improved a lot over the last couple of months. Hopefully he'll spend a lot of time working on his shot over the summer.

Nothing against Collier but looks like he’s never had a month shooting better than 28% from 3, and his best stretch had him around 50% TS (and he’s come down from that since). Not a situation where he had a couple bad months and then a couple really nice ones (more like he went from unbelievably awful to just unacceptable).

Not rooting against him or anything, just following the numbers for now. Anything can happen with any of those guys, and all these samples are small.

[TheSeeker]

Just looked him up, stats are pretty ugly besides the dimes tbh. He’s at 10.7/4.5/9 per 36, which is okay if unspectacular for a rookie, but he’s also at 40% FG and 23% from deep, which comes out to 46% TS. And over 4 TOs per game.

That sounds more like a guy who has some interesting skills abilities to make things happen that could maybe blossom down the line, but is a pretty darn rough player as is. That’s gotta be the worst efficiency in the league, and on very low scoring volume too.

Collier definitely still needs to improve his outside shooting, but the numbers are a bit deceptive. He was shooting 15% from 3 for a while and took him a bit to get his bearings. He has improved a lot over the last couple of months. Hopefully he'll spend a lot of time working on his shot over the summer.

Nothing against Collier but looks like he’s never had a month shooting better than 28% from 3, and his best stretch had him around 50% TS (and he’s come down from that since). Not a situation where he had a couple bad months and then a couple really nice ones (more like he went from unbelievably awful to just unacceptable).

Not rooting against him or anything, just following the numbers for now. Anything can happen with any of those guys, and all these samples are small.

Agreed he has not had a great shooting month, but his shot is substantially better with the eye test. He went from 14% in November to 28% in March, improving each month. At the beginning his shots were all over. Cringeworthy tbh. He is missing short a lot now, but his shot is now online, and you don't mind him taking the open shots. His mechanics aren't bad. Seems like he has the tools to improve on those shots. He has been very good at finishing and his speed is elite. He needs to vary it with slow speed and he could be great.

Kidd shot 27% as a rookie, and became a pretty good 3pt shooter. If Collier can get to a % where his shot has to be respected, which seems very possible, he will be very good.

He is 5th in potential assists in the last 15, surround by some great guards. He has a lot to learn, but had taken on a lot as a rookie.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Castle has been extremely impressive the last couple weeks. I still don't understand why he's coming off the bench

[Castle Black]

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[Bornstellar]

Castle has been extremely impressive the last couple weeks. I still don't understand why he's coming off the bench

Because our interim coach is a spineless turd and I guess Pop or someone made a promise to Paul that he would start for us. We obviously aren't going to bench Fox so Castle got stiffed. I'm convinced they are just tanking now that Victor is out for the season because it's extremely obvious that Fox/Castle starting makes much more sense the Paul/Fox, especially considering Paul gets routinely abused on defense and can barely score anymore.

[Catchall]

The #2 pick and #32 pick matched up tonight. Filipowski finished with 23/13/1blk, while Sarr put up 21/5/4/2blks.

[dautjazz]

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Nice, and Flip has been killing it as well

[Chanel Bomber]

Castle has been extremely impressive the last couple weeks. I still don't understand why he's coming off the bench

Should've never traded for Fox.

The Paul-Castle backcourt was ideal for San Antonio's internal development - both for Castle and Wemby.

There are fewer avenues for development with Fox now spending time on the ball and having the offense gravitate towards him with his lack of off-ball skill. It's a shame.

The Spurs took two steps forward by trading Dejounte and two steps back by trading for Fox. These players have largely similar profiles so it's surprising to see an organization like the Spurs paint themselves into a corner they decided to get out of just 3 years ago.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Castle has been extremely impressive the last couple weeks. I still don't understand why he's coming off the bench

Should've never traded for Fox.

The Paul-Castle backcourt was ideal for San Antonio's internal development - both for Castle and Wemby.

There are fewer avenues for development with Fox now spending time on the ball and having the offense gravitate towards him with his lack of off-ball skill. It's a shame.

The Spurs took two steps forward by trading Dejounte and two steps back by trading for Fox. These players have largely similar profiles so it's surprising to see an organization like the Spurs paint themselves into a corner they decided to get out of just 3 years ago.

I don't think Fox gets in the way of Castles development at all, mainly because Castle has legit 2 guard size, he's 6'5.5" without shoes and is already 220lbs, in the old NBA he'd be listed at 6'7" with shoes so that's great size for a 2. It would be an issue if he were small and couldn't guard multiple positions, but as it stands, Castle looks like he's going to be an excellent defender.

We've seen Fox play with multiple ball handlers and it worked out well, he obviously needs to improve his shooting, but he's been able to play in a system where Monk, DeMar and Domas all had the ball a lot when he was on the floor. For what they gave up to get Fox, I wouldn't really worry too much about them, they have two lottery picks this summer too.

[Chanel Bomber]

Castle has been extremely impressive the last couple weeks. I still don't understand why he's coming off the bench

Should've never traded for Fox.

The Paul-Castle backcourt was ideal for San Antonio's internal development - both for Castle and Wemby.

There are fewer avenues for development with Fox now spending time on the ball and having the offense gravitate towards him with his lack of off-ball skill. It's a shame.

The Spurs took two steps forward by trading Dejounte and two steps back by trading for Fox. These players have largely similar profiles so it's surprising to see an organization like the Spurs paint themselves into a corner they decided to get out of just 3 years ago.

I don't think Fox gets in the way of Castles development at all, mainly because Castle has legit 2 guard size, he's 6'5.5" without shoes and is already 220lbs, in the old NBA he'd be listed at 6'7" with shoes so that's great size for a 2. It would be an issue if he were small and couldn't guard multiple positions, but as it stands, Castle looks like he's going to be an excellent defender.

We've seen Fox play with multiple ball handlers and it worked out well, he obviously needs to improve his shooting, but he's been able to play in a system where Monk, DeMar and Domas all had the ball a lot when he was on the floor. For what they gave up to get Fox, I wouldn't really worry too much about them, they have two lottery picks this summer too.

I'll have to disagree with you here.

The Kings missed the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton and with Fox and DeMar. I wouldn't say it worked out well for them.

The one time they made the postseason, Monk came off the bench. Fox and Monk's minutes were staggered to a large extent (they only shared the court for 13.8 mpg that season).

I don't think Fox is good for Castle in any way. I'd go so far as saying that he's the worst type of guard you can put next to him as he develops. I hope I'm wrong as I like both Wemby and Castle.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Should've never traded for Fox.

The Paul-Castle backcourt was ideal for San Antonio's internal development - both for Castle and Wemby.

There are fewer avenues for development with Fox now spending time on the ball and having the offense gravitate towards him with his lack of off-ball skill. It's a shame.

The Spurs took two steps forward by trading Dejounte and two steps back by trading for Fox. These players have largely similar profiles so it's surprising to see an organization like the Spurs paint themselves into a corner they decided to get out of just 3 years ago.

I don't think Fox gets in the way of Castles development at all, mainly because Castle has legit 2 guard size, he's 6'5.5" without shoes and is already 220lbs, in the old NBA he'd be listed at 6'7" with shoes so that's great size for a 2. It would be an issue if he were small and couldn't guard multiple positions, but as it stands, Castle looks like he's going to be an excellent defender.

We've seen Fox play with multiple ball handlers and it worked out well, he obviously needs to improve his shooting, but he's been able to play in a system where Monk, DeMar and Domas all had the ball a lot when he was on the floor. For what they gave up to get Fox, I wouldn't really worry too much about them, they have two lottery picks this summer too.

I'll have to disagree with you here.

The Kings missed the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton and with Fox and DeMar. I wouldn't say it worked out well for them.

The one time they made the postseason, Monk came off the bench. Fox and Monk's minutes were staggered to a large extent (they only shared the court for 13.8 mpg that season).

I don't think Fox is good for Castle in any way. I'd go so far as saying that he's the worst type of guard you can put next to him as he develops. I hope I'm wrong as I like both Wemby and Castle.

Fox + Monk was good offensively, the issue for them is the same one that existed with Haliburton, neither of his backcourt mates could defend. A backcourt of two 6'3" guards where neither is a good defender isn't going to work, especially when Domas is their backline defender. Castle is going to be an elite defender, he's already good as a PoA defender as a 20 year old rookie, he's going to be the best defensive perimeter player that Fox has ever been paired with.


I think you're being too harsh with Fox, he cost them nothing and since his center takes nearly 10 threes a game his own weaknesses offenisvely won't be as pronounced, and his strengths should be magnified by that shooting from Wemby. I've seen enough of Fox playing with other ball handlers to think that he won't hurt Castle.

[Chanel Bomber]

I don't think Fox gets in the way of Castles development at all, mainly because Castle has legit 2 guard size, he's 6'5.5" without shoes and is already 220lbs, in the old NBA he'd be listed at 6'7" with shoes so that's great size for a 2. It would be an issue if he were small and couldn't guard multiple positions, but as it stands, Castle looks like he's going to be an excellent defender.

We've seen Fox play with multiple ball handlers and it worked out well, he obviously needs to improve his shooting, but he's been able to play in a system where Monk, DeMar and Domas all had the ball a lot when he was on the floor. For what they gave up to get Fox, I wouldn't really worry too much about them, they have two lottery picks this summer too.

I'll have to disagree with you here.

The Kings missed the playoffs with Fox and Haliburton and with Fox and DeMar. I wouldn't say it worked out well for them.

The one time they made the postseason, Monk came off the bench. Fox and Monk's minutes were staggered to a large extent (they only shared the court for 13.8 mpg that season).

I don't think Fox is good for Castle in any way. I'd go so far as saying that he's the worst type of guard you can put next to him as he develops. I hope I'm wrong as I like both Wemby and Castle.

Fox + Monk was good offensively, the issue for them is the same one that existed with Haliburton, neither of his backcourt mates could defend. A backcourt of two 6'3" guards where neither is a good defender isn't going to work, especially when Domas is their backline defender. Castle is going to be an elite defender, he's already good as a PoA defender as a 20 year old rookie, he's going to be the best defensive perimeter player that Fox has ever been paired with.


I think you're being too harsh with Fox, he cost them nothing and since his center takes nearly 10 threes a game his own weaknesses offenisvely won't be as pronounced, and his strengths should be magnified by that shooting from Wemby. I've seen enough of Fox playing with other ball handlers to think that he won't hurt Castle.

He'll cost them 25% to 35% of their cap.

Fox is the Randle of guards - perhaps an even lesser version. Same profile as Dejounte too. Guys who neither defend at a high level or space the floor hold the offense hostage and make it extremely dependent on their on-ball play. And his on-ball play is just fine - an inefficient scorer without much added value in terms of playmaking.

It frustrates me when we defend players for what their teammates can do for them as opposed to what they can do for the team. It's the same trap Knicks fans fell with RJ, another player who fits that mold.

Great, Wemby will make his life easier. Wemby makes life easier for everyone. But what does Fox do for Wemby? Does he make his life easier while also significantly elevating the team as a whole? I just don't see it.

[Handlez]

We finna act like Filipowksi ain't ROY?

[G R E Y]

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[G R E Y]

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10-17, 2-5 from 3, 3-3FTs, 2 O boards, 3 assists, 1TO.

[FarBeyondDriven]

We finna act like Filipowksi ain't ROY?

12/8/3 shooting 40% from three as a starter (13 starts). Not too shabby