OT: NFL 24-25 Thread Cont'd

[TerrenceClarke]

I'm not trying to "devalue" anyone. I like Cam Ward significantly more based on there strengths and weaknesses. I don't think I am the only one in the camp that sees him as the clear QB1. It’s not even shade at Sanders. It’s more I like what Ward brings more.

You also the guy who defended Daniel Jones heavy and thought he was worth resigning and had potential to get better.

So can I trust the word “potential” with you?

[Ghetto Gospel]

i like cam ward better than shedeur but i'd rather hang tight at 3 and pick shedeur than trade real assets to go to 1 to get cam

I'm taking Hunter at 3 if Ward isn't available.

realistically, there's no way hot seat schoen and daboll are going into next season with nobody at QB so... yeah it's going to be cam or shedeur

[mpharris36]

A QB isn’t just Arm Talent.

If that’s case Richardson would be a god right now.

Jeff George was a QB that had a legendary arm but couldn’t hack the mental part of the game to make him elite.

People in NY forget about Chad Pennington. Dude arm was not all that . But everything else was elite and he was a winner because of it. If not for injures Chad Pennington would go down as an elite QB.

Sanders has been doubted every aspect of his football life. Yet here is a dude that’s here being mentioned as a top 5 player in the draft. It’s very hard to do what he has done. He was literally just a “HBCU” quarterback 3 years ago.fast forward To being mentioned as one of the best QBs in all of college ball.

Sanders is a winner. He just keeps ascending and getting better. And if people don’t see it… they aren’t looking hard enough. I’m not betting against him.


The problem here is like I stated. Both QBs have something the other doesn’t have.

It’s for tit for tat.

My stance is I have no problem with either QB ….getting either one is significantly better than the options we have in front of us right now.

The draft is still like 2 months from now. There will be plenty of narratives from now till then.

Don’t be surprised when SS will be the flavor of the week and the same evaluators now who are meh on him, start saying something different.

Sorry I should have been more specific on "arm talent" not just drop back and heave it. Ward is able to fit ball into tight windows...manipulate arm angles that not many QB's can do...throw on the move. Richardson can just drop back and throw a bomb but he never had the intermediate game that was always the risk in developing him with his mobility.

See I disagree on Chad Pennington...would not consider him elite at all, wouldn't want my top pick to be a player with his ceiling. Solid game managing QB but only threw over 20 TD's once....never had a big enough arm to stretch the defense. Like I agree you can still win with that QB...but I think there are limitations with QB's that are more game managers like Brock Purdy and guys like that. Not saying those are direct comps but I'm shooting for higher potential.

Nobody is wowed by Jalen Hurts physical gifts. But Hurts is a winning QB.

Winners know how to win period.

What you should be saying is you are you shooting for perceived Higher potential.

Cause all potential is something that isn’t actualized Yet.

You equate physical ability as the higher ceiling.

When we see elite phyiscal guys never live up to it.

Russel Wilson was never an elite physical guy but he lives to his potential more so than guys who had stronger arms. Or who were faster etc.

Cam Ward is not a generational QB prospect so his Potential isn’t that crazy to me.

You fell into the thinking that Wards “potential” is worth trading for, and to me it’s not.

Giants are being thirsty. Nothing more nothing less.

Hurts is a crazy duel threat QB. He was a runner that turned himself into a good thrower.

Russel Wilson coming out had a size issue but he had a big time arm and was a dual threat QB. He was rushing for +500 yards his first 6-7 years in the NFL with 800 yards sprinkled in one year.

Don't get me wrong there have been some really good non mobile, not big arm QB's because of there ability to read defenses and anticipate throws with accuracy like Drew Brees. But they are much fewer and far between in terms of upside.

[DOT]

If you make a post comparing two players, you shouldn't feign outrage when people treat it like a comparison

It's not like Shedeur has a noodle arm. It's just that he'll need to anticipate and throw earlier, which means the margins of error are smaller, as defenders will have more time to react. Which means it's all down to the team who drafts him, if they can develop him right it will be fine, if not then he won't be

I would completely rule out trading up for either guy, and even staying at 3 I'd have Hunter and Carter ahead of them. And if both them are gone, then by all means take your pick at QB, I don't think any other player is good enough to warrant being a non-QB taken top 3.

[TerrenceClarke]

Sorry I should have been more specific on "arm talent" not just drop back and heave it. Ward is able to fit ball into tight windows...manipulate arm angles that not many QB's can do...throw on the move. Richardson can just drop back and throw a bomb but he never had the intermediate game that was always the risk in developing him with his mobility.

See I disagree on Chad Pennington...would not consider him elite at all, wouldn't want my top pick to be a player with his ceiling. Solid game managing QB but only threw over 20 TD's once....never had a big enough arm to stretch the defense. Like I agree you can still win with that QB...but I think there are limitations with QB's that are more game managers like Brock Purdy and guys like that. Not saying those are direct comps but I'm shooting for higher potential.

Nobody is wowed by Jalen Hurts physical gifts. But Hurts is a winning QB.

Winners know how to win period.

What you should be saying is you are you shooting for perceived Higher potential.

Cause all potential is something that isn’t actualized Yet.

You equate physical ability as the higher ceiling.

When we see elite phyiscal guys never live up to it.

Russel Wilson was never an elite physical guy but he lives to his potential more so than guys who had stronger arms. Or who were faster etc.

Cam Ward is not a generational QB prospect so his Potential isn’t that crazy to me.

You fell into the thinking that Wards “potential” is worth trading for, and to me it’s not.

Giants are being thirsty. Nothing more nothing less.

Hurts is a crazy duel threat QB. He was a runner that turned himself into a good thrower.

Russel Wilson coming out had a size issue but he had a big time arm and was a dual threat QB. He was rushing for +500 yards his first 6-7 years in the NFL with 800 yards sprinkled in one year.

Don't get me wrong there have been some really good non mobile, not big arm QB's because of there ability to read defenses and anticipate throws with accuracy like Drew Brees. But they are much fewer and far between in terms of upside.

Bruh you acting like SS is statue.

Now it makes sense why you be a schitting on him.

His arm isn’t the worse arm or he can’t scramble.


In Reagrds to Wilson.

My point is. Go back to his draft and look at all the QBs who people perceived as having the higher potential and was picked before him.How many lived up to it???

Dude was picked in the third round.


We have to add the context as it being only perceived.

Again you speak as if CW physical traits give him the higher potential by default when in reality they don’t. You speak as if there is no world where SS can be better than him. To you that is an after thought, and it’s why I say you “ devalue” him.

[TerrenceClarke]

If you make a post comparing two players, you shouldn't feign outrage when people treat it like a comparison

It's not like Shedeur has a noodle arm. It's just that he'll need to anticipate and throw earlier, which means the margins of error are smaller, as defenders will have more time to react. Which means it's all down to the team who drafts him, if they can develop him right it will be fine, if not then he won't be

I would completely rule out trading up for either guy, and even staying at 3 I'd have Hunter and Carter ahead of them. And if both them are gone, then by all means take your pick at QB, I don't think any other player is good enough to warrant being a non-QB taken top 3.

Stop being a clown. Where is the outrage. Show me outrage in previous posts.

[TerrenceClarke]

MPH You falling for the narrative my dude.

Like I said it makes sense why you talk the way you do. You really didnt watch SS imo. This tells me you was off put by him… cause you talking like there is a huge gap as prospects and there isnt.

Nobody can tell me this dude arm isn’t good enough to be drafted by us and we not be straight.


A lot of people have bad takes on SS because they don’t like his personality( I’m not saying this the case with you)

I’m talking about all the negative chatter that has popped up about him this past couple of weeks and throughout. People talked bad about his father and all he did was completely turn around Colorado in two short years. His father is proven and people still have bad takes on him since he got there. Because he marches to his own drum.

People that can see past the smoke see a good prospect that is just as worthy as Cam.



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[FrozenEnvelope]

I don't see any way how either Ward or Sanders succeed here. Poor kids are doomed to fail.

[3toheadmelo]

If you make a post comparing two players, you shouldn't feign outrage when people treat it like a comparison

It's not like Shedeur has a noodle arm. It's just that he'll need to anticipate and throw earlier, which means the margins of error are smaller, as defenders will have more time to react. Which means it's all down to the team who drafts him, if they can develop him right it will be fine, if not then he won't be

I would completely rule out trading up for either guy, and even staying at 3 I'd have Hunter and Carter ahead of them. And if both them are gone, then by all means take your pick at QB, I don't think any other player is good enough to warrant being a non-QB taken top 3.

Stop being a clown. Where is the outrage. Show me outrage in previous posts.

DOT be trolling half of the time

[DOT]

I don't think it's trolling, it's just pointing out that some people make points in the heat of an argument without thinking them through, then get irrationally mad and double down on them because they think admitting they were wrong is a sign of weakness

Every athlete, especially the great ones, find reasons to think they're overlooked. Georgia players in 2022, after winning their 2nd championship in a row, were saying nobody believed in them because they were ranked #3 at the start of the year

It'd be like comparing Mahomes and Josh Allen and using Mahomes' arm strength as a point in his favor. Like yeah, he has a huge arm, but Allen has a bigger one. Yeah, Shedeur wasn't a top recruit, but Cam Ward was much more overlooked. If we're using the "nobody believed in him" argument, that's more an argument for Ward rather than Shedeur

And it's just really funny when someone gets mad when you say you basically agree with their conclusion but disagree with why. Like, I don't really think Ward is that much better of a prospect than Shedeur either, I just think "NOBODY BELIEVED IN SHEDEUR" is a stupid reason to believe so for the obvious reason I keep stating.

[TerrenceClarke]

If you make a post comparing two players, you shouldn't feign outrage when people treat it like a comparison

It's not like Shedeur has a noodle arm. It's just that he'll need to anticipate and throw earlier, which means the margins of error are smaller, as defenders will have more time to react. Which means it's all down to the team who drafts him, if they can develop him right it will be fine, if not then he won't be

I would completely rule out trading up for either guy, and even staying at 3 I'd have Hunter and Carter ahead of them. And if both them are gone, then by all means take your pick at QB, I don't think any other player is good enough to warrant being a non-QB taken top 3.

Stop being a clown. Where is the outrage. Show me outrage in previous posts.

DOT be trolling half of the time

Passive Aggressive ALL THE TIME.

[TerrenceClarke]

I don't think it's trolling, it's just pointing out that some people make points in the heat of an argument without thinking them through, then get irrationally mad and double down on them because they think admitting they were wrong is a sign of weakness

.

Irrationally mad huh...

I get it that you a white boy from the sticks....but chill with all this corny angry black man **** you pushing here.

Yesterday its was rage....today its irrationally mad. Yeah I see a pattern here with you.

You would not be able to get one person to say that I have been raging or irrationally mad.

Go sit down and scout players for the Jags. You will feel better.

[3toheadmelo]

Stop being a clown. Where is the outrage. Show me outrage in previous posts.

DOT be trolling half of the time

Passive Aggressive ALL THE TIME.

Yeah he is like that all the time. Whenever I be talking to someone else dude be hopping in the convo taking shots at me indirectly. I don’t respect that weak sneak dissing sht. But whatever, that’s his MO

[GONYK]

The gap between two of the most highly hyped quarterback prospects in this year’s lukewarm class is one of “giant” proportions.

That’s according to NFL insider Peter Schrager, who said Tuesday that Miami’s Cam Ward is viewed as a top option at quarterback in the 2025 NFL Draft, followed by an expansive space before Shedeur Sanders, the son of NFL legend Deion Sanders, enters the frame.

“This year, Cam Ward’s got huge upside, but despite the great years he’s had at Washington State and Miami, he’s not viewed in that same category as those top three guys (last year), and then it’s a giant drop-off from what I gather and just viewed as prospects, not necessarily how they turn out, Shedeur, [Ole Miss quarterback] Jaxson Dart and then a bunch of unknowns,” Schrager said on “The Bill Simmons Podcast.”

“… I think Shedeur is viewed closer to Jaxson Dart than Shedeur is viewed closer to Cam Ward.”

https://nypost.com/2025/03/05/sports/teams-see-giant-drop-off-between-cam-ward-and-shedeur-sanders/

This is all taken with a grain of salt because it is smokescreen season, but the reporting is near unanimous coming out of the combine

[TerrenceClarke]

The gap between two of the most highly hyped quarterback prospects in this year’s lukewarm class is one of “giant” proportions.

That’s according to NFL insider Peter Schrager, who said Tuesday that Miami’s Cam Ward is viewed as a top option at quarterback in the 2025 NFL Draft, followed by an expansive space before Shedeur Sanders, the son of NFL legend Deion Sanders, enters the frame.

“This year, Cam Ward’s got huge upside, but despite the great years he’s had at Washington State and Miami, he’s not viewed in that same category as those top three guys (last year), and then it’s a giant drop-off from what I gather and just viewed as prospects, not necessarily how they turn out, Shedeur, [Ole Miss quarterback] Jaxson Dart and then a bunch of unknowns,” Schrager said on “The Bill Simmons Podcast.”

“… I think Shedeur is viewed closer to Jaxson Dart than Shedeur is viewed closer to Cam Ward.”

https://nypost.com/2025/03/05/sports/teams-see-giant-drop-off-between-cam-ward-and-shedeur-sanders/

This is all taken with a grain of salt because it is smokescreen season, but the reporting is near unanimous coming out of the combine

I dont think there is a grain of salt to be taken.


Cam Ward is above SS as the consensus. He pretty much been that for a min now in all mocks. But if Cam Ward is being said he is not a as good as the guys as last year. Then how good is he. Its why I keep saying I dont care who we pick really cause there isnt much divide between them when all things are taking into account. Its tit for tat. Either one is a better option that what we have on the roster.

if we "only" came away with SS, if Cam goes number 1....I still call that a win.

Also if the Titans are willing to move off the number 1 pick...again. How good is Cam Ward really. Being seen as being better than SS is one thing. A team willing to move off the number 1 pick when they need a QB they damn self is another.

if The Giants are willing to trade up for him but still would want to have a vet QB in front of him....then talent is def a Drop off from last year class.

If Both QBs would be candidates to be sat down. Me personally I would see it as closer than what it appears. Now if the Talk was...


Cam Ward is the starter....then yeah that Gap is huge. Cause one being able to start right away and the other cant is the more telling stance.

Is Cam Ward worth assets to go and get. My answer is no. This isnt Jayden Daniels level here of a prospect that I would chase after.

[GONYK]

The gap between two of the most highly hyped quarterback prospects in this year’s lukewarm class is one of “giant” proportions.

That’s according to NFL insider Peter Schrager, who said Tuesday that Miami’s Cam Ward is viewed as a top option at quarterback in the 2025 NFL Draft, followed by an expansive space before Shedeur Sanders, the son of NFL legend Deion Sanders, enters the frame.

“This year, Cam Ward’s got huge upside, but despite the great years he’s had at Washington State and Miami, he’s not viewed in that same category as those top three guys (last year), and then it’s a giant drop-off from what I gather and just viewed as prospects, not necessarily how they turn out, Shedeur, [Ole Miss quarterback] Jaxson Dart and then a bunch of unknowns,” Schrager said on “The Bill Simmons Podcast.”

“… I think Shedeur is viewed closer to Jaxson Dart than Shedeur is viewed closer to Cam Ward.”

https://nypost.com/2025/03/05/sports/teams-see-giant-drop-off-between-cam-ward-and-shedeur-sanders/

This is all taken with a grain of salt because it is smokescreen season, but the reporting is near unanimous coming out of the combine

I dont think there is a grain of salt to be taken.


Cam Ward is above SS as the consensus. He pretty much been that for a min now in all mocks. But if Cam Ward is being said he is not a as good as the guys as last year. Then how good is he. Its why I keep saying I dont care who we pick really cause there isnt much divide between them when all things are taking into account. Its tit for tat. Either one is a better option that what we have on the roster.

if we "only" came away with SS, if Cam goes number 1....I still call that a win.

Also if the Titans are willing to move off the number 1 pick...again. How good is Cam Ward really. Being seen as being better than SS is one thing. A team willing to move off the number 1 pick when they need a QB they damn self is another.

if The Giants are willing to trade up for him but still would want to have a vet QB in front of him....then talent is def a Drop off from last year class.

If Both QBs would be candidates to be sat down. Me personally I would see it as closer than what it appears. Now if the Talk was...


Cam Ward is the starter....then yeah that Gap is huge. Cause one being able to start right away and the other cant is the more telling stance.

Is Cam Ward worth assets to go and get. My answer is no. This isnt Jayden Daniels level here of a prospect that I would chase after.

Well, there are two distinctions being made:

1. Ward isn't a prospect on the level of the top 3 in last years draft and would have been in the McCarthy/Penix/Nix tier.

2. Sanders isn't even viewed in that tier and is seen as a prospect that is closer to Jaxon Dart, who is viewed as a late 1st/early 2nd rd prospect.

I tend to agree with point #1. I think the grain of salt needs to be taken with point #2.

There is some stuff about SS that I don't really find ideal in a QB, both on the field and off, but he would never throw 3 picks in a row then cry in his coach's lap like Dart did.

But for NFL execs to be putting it out there that they would consider taking Dart over Sanders is interesting.

[TerrenceClarke]

This is all taken with a grain of salt because it is smokescreen season, but the reporting is near unanimous coming out of the combine

I dont think there is a grain of salt to be taken.


Cam Ward is above SS as the consensus. He pretty much been that for a min now in all mocks. But if Cam Ward is being said he is not a as good as the guys as last year. Then how good is he. Its why I keep saying I dont care who we pick really cause there isnt much divide between them when all things are taking into account. Its tit for tat. Either one is a better option that what we have on the roster.

if we "only" came away with SS, if Cam goes number 1....I still call that a win.

Also if the Titans are willing to move off the number 1 pick...again. How good is Cam Ward really. Being seen as being better than SS is one thing. A team willing to move off the number 1 pick when they need a QB they damn self is another.

if The Giants are willing to trade up for him but still would want to have a vet QB in front of him....then talent is def a Drop off from last year class.

If Both QBs would be candidates to be sat down. Me personally I would see it as closer than what it appears. Now if the Talk was...


Cam Ward is the starter....then yeah that Gap is huge. Cause one being able to start right away and the other cant is the more telling stance.

Is Cam Ward worth assets to go and get. My answer is no. This isnt Jayden Daniels level here of a prospect that I would chase after.

Well, there are two distinctions being made:

1. Ward isn't a prospect on the level of the top 3 in last years draft and would have been in the McCarthy/Penix/Nix tier.

2. Sanders isn't even viewed in that tier and is seen as a prospect that is closer to Jaxon Dart, who is viewed as a late 1st/early 2nd rd prospect.

I tend to agree with point #1. I think the grain of salt needs to be taken with point #2.

There is some stuff about SS that I don't really find ideal in a QB, both on the field and off, but he would never throw 3 picks in a row then cry in his coach's lap like Dart did.

But for NFL execs to be putting it out there that they would consider taking Dart over Sanders is interesting.

yeah I hear you on point 2. Thats def where the grain of salt is for sure.

But back to point 1. If Cam Ward is seen as in the JJ tier .. thats nasty work. He is def not worth assets for... cause I liked JJ as a so so prospect last year at 6th... but he went 10th.

Makes sense why the Titans want to move off the pick then.

Lost in the Cam Ward > SS debate. Is that Cam Ward is not that good of a #1 prospect all things considered. Taking SS at 3 is the way better option if they want a QB then moving up for Cam Ward. Its why I defended SS, cause im cool with him at 3 if Cam Ward was considered #1 by most.

My instincts were correct. I never co signed the trade up for Cam Ward talk...If I felt he was that dude. I would be thirsty like the Giants. So at that point how big is the gap really.

Nasty work with the Giants being super thirsty. They need to chill the F out. Way to much chatter about them wanting that number 1 pick for a QB.


Yo MPH come get ya man.

[mpharris36]

I dont think there is a grain of salt to be taken.


Cam Ward is above SS as the consensus. He pretty much been that for a min now in all mocks. But if Cam Ward is being said he is not a as good as the guys as last year. Then how good is he. Its why I keep saying I dont care who we pick really cause there isnt much divide between them when all things are taking into account. Its tit for tat. Either one is a better option that what we have on the roster.

if we "only" came away with SS, if Cam goes number 1....I still call that a win.

Also if the Titans are willing to move off the number 1 pick...again. How good is Cam Ward really. Being seen as being better than SS is one thing. A team willing to move off the number 1 pick when they need a QB they damn self is another.

if The Giants are willing to trade up for him but still would want to have a vet QB in front of him....then talent is def a Drop off from last year class.

If Both QBs would be candidates to be sat down. Me personally I would see it as closer than what it appears. Now if the Talk was...


Cam Ward is the starter....then yeah that Gap is huge. Cause one being able to start right away and the other cant is the more telling stance.

Is Cam Ward worth assets to go and get. My answer is no. This isnt Jayden Daniels level here of a prospect that I would chase after.

Well, there are two distinctions being made:

1. Ward isn't a prospect on the level of the top 3 in last years draft and would have been in the McCarthy/Penix/Nix tier.

2. Sanders isn't even viewed in that tier and is seen as a prospect that is closer to Jaxon Dart, who is viewed as a late 1st/early 2nd rd prospect.

I tend to agree with point #1. I think the grain of salt needs to be taken with point #2.

There is some stuff about SS that I don't really find ideal in a QB, both on the field and off, but he would never throw 3 picks in a row then cry in his coach's lap like Dart did.

But for NFL execs to be putting it out there that they would consider taking Dart over Sanders is interesting.

yeah I hear you on point 2. Thats def where the grain of salt is for sure.

But back to point 1. If Cam Ward is seen as in the JJ tier .. thats nasty work. He is def not worth assets for... cause I liked JJ as a so so prospect last year at 6th... but he went 10th.

Makes sense why the Titans want to move off the pick then.

Lost in the Cam Ward > SS debate. Is that Cam Ward is not that good of a #1 prospect all things considered. Taking SS at 3 is the way better option if they want a QB then moving up for Cam Ward. Its why I defended SS, cause im cool with him at 3 if Cam Ward was considered #1 by most.

My instincts were correct. I never co signed the trade up for Cam Ward talk...If I felt he was that dude. I would be thirsty like the Giants. So at that point how big is the gap really.

Nasty work with the Giants being super thirsty. They need to chill the F out. Way to much chatter about them wanting that number 1 pick for a QB.


Yo MPH come get ya man.

All I read is Cam is a sure fire top pick and SS is a late 1st early 2nd round graded player...

[TerrenceClarke]

Well, there are two distinctions being made:

1. Ward isn't a prospect on the level of the top 3 in last years draft and would have been in the McCarthy/Penix/Nix tier.

2. Sanders isn't even viewed in that tier and is seen as a prospect that is closer to Jaxon Dart, who is viewed as a late 1st/early 2nd rd prospect.

I tend to agree with point #1. I think the grain of salt needs to be taken with point #2.

There is some stuff about SS that I don't really find ideal in a QB, both on the field and off, but he would never throw 3 picks in a row then cry in his coach's lap like Dart did.

But for NFL execs to be putting it out there that they would consider taking Dart over Sanders is interesting.

yeah I hear you on point 2. Thats def where the grain of salt is for sure.

But back to point 1. If Cam Ward is seen as in the JJ tier .. thats nasty work. He is def not worth assets for... cause I liked JJ as a so so prospect last year at 6th... but he went 10th.

Makes sense why the Titans want to move off the pick then.

Lost in the Cam Ward > SS debate. Is that Cam Ward is not that good of a #1 prospect all things considered. Taking SS at 3 is the way better option if they want a QB then moving up for Cam Ward. Its why I defended SS, cause im cool with him at 3 if Cam Ward was considered #1 by most.

My instincts were correct. I never co signed the trade up for Cam Ward talk...If I felt he was that dude. I would be thirsty like the Giants. So at that point how big is the gap really.

Nasty work with the Giants being super thirsty. They need to chill the F out. Way to much chatter about them wanting that number 1 pick for a QB.


Yo MPH come get ya man.

All I read is Cam is a sure fire top pick and SS is a late 1st early 2nd round graded player...

That means we can pick travis hunter and trade less assets to get back into the first for his team mate… The trading for Cam Ward.

[TerrenceClarke]

On another note I be surprised if he slides past the Raiders.