PG: Bucks Fall to Thunder

[German Athens]

The Bucks are 19th in pick & roll frequency despite being the 7th most efficient P&R team and having two of the most dominant P&R weapons (Dame/Giannis). 16th in 3PT attempts despite being #2 in 3PT efficiency. We're #2 in post-up frequency (only 0.2% behind Denver) despite being 17th in post-up efficiency. Team is straight up not leaning into their strengths and instead trying to force a square peg into a round-hole. Make it make **** sense man.

Story of the season and under Doc in general = Stone Age NBA offense. Once again, we're just getting bailed out by our Top-2 talents when they decide to free-lance and hard-carry the offense (7th in isolation frequency and efficiency). I'm begging them to get a real coach here, even if that means Doc moving into the POBO role (*gags*), whatever. Being able to construct a Top-10 offense at a minimum around Dame/Giannis should be a coaching competency litmus test, and the coaching staff has failed that test spectacularly.

I don’t disagree with the idea that we have a problematic offense - anytime we use half the shot clock just to get the ball to Taurean Prince in a hand off, we’ve got ourselves a problem.

But the pick n roll frequency is greatly intertwined with our lack of proper personnel for it. Dame is the only guy you can easily scale up usage as the ball handler in the pick n roll, and he’s actually quite high in frequency - 9th in the league. Giannis is then our next best bet as the handler, but his is harder to scale because he needs to get all the way into the teeth of the defense to utilize it.

Beyond those two guys, we basically don’t have the capacity to do it, and that’s not completely new to Doc. Under Bud, we were often very low in this as well, peaking in 2023 at 24th in the league.

As an organization, we’ve just never prioritized guys who can competently run a pick n roll.

I'm just not buying this when you look at the personnel of the top P&R teams and offenses though. OKC doesn't have this awesome collection of ball-handling guards and creators outside of SGA. We've swapped out Delon Wright and Marjon for Kevin Porter and Jericho Sims. That along with Bobby's suspension should mean us embracing the pick & roll offense even more, and to KPJ's credit, he's an almost identical frequency and efficiency guy right now (39% and 91st percentile respectively) to Dame, albeit small sample.

I'm just praying that someone on the coaching staff realizes this and we get some Dame/KPJ backcourt reps before the playoffs start. Cuz the offensive philosophy right now is making generating good looks an absolute chore. And no, I don't think that Dame having less P&R usage than Jalen Green is acceptable either. Both his AND Giannis' P&R usage have gradually decreased while their ISO usage has increased (13.9 and 12.6 respectively last season vs. 17.6 and 15.5 this season). Like yeah, some credit to Doc for "saving" the defense from mush-brain Griff last season, but he's just going through the motions on offense. He doesn't have a plan other than "give the ball to our two best players and get out of the way".

I think we agree about KPJ. His volume has to go up, because outside him we really don’t have anyone else who can pull this off. And our additions at the deadline should mean we embrace it more.

But I’m going to push back against the OKC piece. When we talk about pick n roll frequency it’s almost always about having two guys who can do it at high volume.

OKC is no different - Jalen is 18th in the league at over 7 per game. Between him and Shai they combine to do it as much as our entire team - It’s not just about Shai. Beyond those two guys, they don’t have anyone who does even 2 per game.

[Ron Swanson]

FWIW, we were 16th in P&R frequency/possessions despite being 4th in efficiency as a team last season as well. That's with 55-games of Khris. It's absolutely a coaching/scheme not optimizing our best players issue.

[ShootingtheJ]

FWIW, we were 16th in P&R frequency/possessions despite being 4th in efficiency as a team last season as well. That's with 55-games of Khris. It's absolutely a coaching/scheme not optimizing our best players issue.

It'll be interesting to see what we do in the playoffs, if we're finally healthy. However, that pick and roll efficiency takes a hit with Kuzma on the floor in place of Middleton. Massive spacing change.

[doclinkin]

The Bucks were 30-13 with Griffin.

The Bucks wouldn't go 30-13 with Doc if they played the Wizards 43 times.

Certainly not with Khris Middleton playing.

This is where Khris haters and lovers can agree.

The Wiz have been playing decent since the deadline.

Is it because of Middleton or simply because they rid themselves of Kuzma? That is the question....lol.

Wiz fan here: the answer is both. Kuzma has always been a player that is wildly inconsistent. Thing is he always thinks he is as good as he is in his highlight reel. If you notice, the worse he shoots the more attempts he takes. He tries to shoot himself out of a cold streak. That irrational confidence was not a bad thing in the locker room for a young team that needs to lose to keep their draft pick, at least he tended to act like a level headed leader even if his on court play was mediocre. But this year he came into camp out of shape, and played lackadaisical all year. Maybe his heart wasn't in it after he turned down a trade to Dallas thinking they weren't contenders (refused to waive his trade kicker) but they defied his judgement by making it to the Finals. Whatever reason it meant he was just kinda chucking, not rebounding, often injured, and then made clear he wasn't buying into the attempt to let the rooks learn by reps. He was a boat anchor on the squad this year, with his career worst +/- numbers. He has always had negative on/off numbers, but this year was his worst. He's normally inefficient on offense, but this year was not even rebounding or playing defense much.

Meanwhile the Wiz had 3 (now 4) high energy athletic rookies who had to share the ball with 2 chuckers. Poole (who is having a rebirth year) and Kuz (who came into camp looking like he was going to *give* birth some time this season). Having those empty possessions off the team has freed the young hounds to run and bark and enjoy the game. They are playing with frenzied energy.

Meanwhile we added Khris and Marcus Smart as tutors for them. Along with Malcolm Brogdon, that's a ton of basketball knowledge. Middleton as a player doesn't seem to know how to put up negative numbers. Smart immediately took to the role of tutoring the kids. Khris seems like he is kinda reluctantly enjoying that role. They've been enthusiastically picking his brain, and his high efficient smart style is exactly what fits the profile of players like Kyshawn George and Bub Carrington, both of whom are more brainy than athletic out there.

Khris Middleton has league wide respect. Wiz fans wanted to steal him before he won you all a championship. Happy to have him for a short time while he rehabs his career. I personally hope he picks up his option, plays well, and gets shipped to a contender midseason next year. The only problem we have with him is that he is endangering the tank. We slipped behind Utah in the tankstakes already and they don't look like they are going to win another game all year. Middleton doesn't really know how to lose, but out of respect for his contract status this front office won't bench him. I wouldn't be surprised if they work out a sign and trade with him in the offseason. Never know, maybe back to the Bucks on a longer term but affordable contract now that you aren't under the 2nd apron guillotine. The team is big on trading players to their preferred destination and Middleton made it clear he was hurt to be traded from the Bucks. Dunno.

Anyway. Sorry and thanks. I think we are all seeing how tough it is under the new CBA to keep a winning team together. Seems like the league wants to shake the etch-a-sketch every few years to keep things interesting. But seems to me that just means the big market teams are more likely to get other teams' stars at a discount. Or pay the penalties because they can make more revenue off other things. I for one have been hoping the Dame + Giannis pairing will pay off for you guys. Dame deserved a winning situation, and everybody in the world loves Giannis. At least now you all have more flexibility to re-tool in the offseason and build a better team around them.

[AussieBuck]

Dame is a loser. I haven't been one of those guys, but I think I'm one of those guys now. If he's not an entirely different dude in the playoffs, I don't want to see any more of him. Playing Prince at guard remains **** stupid, that isn't helping anything. The whole starting lineup is stupid. We're a few weeks from playoffs and there's no foundation with a million senior coaches.

Doc is a dildo.

[ShootingtheJ]

Dame is a loser. I haven't been one of those guys, but I think I'm one of those guys now. If he's not an entirely different dude in the playoffs, I don't want to see any more of him.

The Bucks seemed grossly over matched in this game, but actually won the minutes KPJ played PG, again.