PG: Sun Burned

[yannisk]

As the team departs the Valley of the Sun, site of the greatest play in Bucks history, just want to thank Bud and Jrue for their many contributions to that title.

And with their departures went the majority of our BBIQ as a team and organization.

I will be a heretic and say that this amazing play was not in my opinion the clever play. We were one point up, I think Jrue shouldn't have passed to Giannis but rather waste time till he gets fouled and go to the line to hit two FTs. If Paul managed to foul Giannis hard enough to not score we would have Giannis hitting Fts with time for the Suns to tie or even win. (not to mention he was risking to make a bad oop)

[PG Graveyard]

It doesn’t matter what this organization does…we aren’t winning anything if Giannis continues to be a trainwreck at the line. It is just so deflating to have to go through his process only to miss both free throws

[chonestown]

As the team departs the Valley of the Sun, site of the greatest play in Bucks history, just want to thank Bud and Jrue for their many contributions to that title.

And with their departures went the majority of our BBIQ as a team and organization.

I will be a heretic and say that this amazing play was not in my opinion the clever play. We were one point up, I think Jrue shouldn't have passed to Giannis but rather waste time till he gets fouled and go to the line to hit two FTs. If Paul managed to foul Giannis hard enough to not score we would have Giannis hitting Fts with time for the Suns to tie or even win. (not to mention he was risking to make a bad oop)

Avant-garde posting

[Ron Swanson]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

[ReginaldDwight]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

The nostalgia people here have for Middleton and Jrue is wild. The issue is horst hasn’t brought in anyone playable in the draft in the last 5 years. Granted when you nuke your draft picks in meh trades it’s gonna be hard but damn we got nothing.

[Ron Swanson]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

The nostalgia people here have for Middleton and Jrue is wild. The issue is horst hasn’t brought in anyone playable in the draft in the last 5 years. Granted when you nuke your draft picks in meh trades it’s gonna be hard but damn we got nothing.

I don't even care about the drafting at this point. We could have brought in an actual high IQ difference-maker at the deadline if we pushed all our chips in (Jimmy). We could have hired an actual high IQ coach or at worst just kept the high IQ coach we already had. Smart organizations can overcome bad drafting and lack of assets if they get the big-picture moves right. Unfortunately we're not one of those orgs, and this is how title windows close.

[BigO]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

The nostalgia people here have for Middleton and Jrue is wild. The issue is horst hasn’t brought in anyone playable in the draft in the last 5 years. Granted when you nuke your draft picks in meh trades it’s gonna be hard but damn we got nothing.

I have nostalgia for KM, but not Jrue. KM was a much better player, when healthy, than Jrue, although few people agree with that.

As for bad drafting, when you don't have picks it's hard to choose wisely. I'd like a new GM, but only if it's the right one. There are so many bad ones out there that you could do even worse.

[fan230]

Horst did get kpj.

Otherwise he has made decisions consistently. 5 seconds for Crowder is an example. Another old guy in Ibaka. Getting a useless offensive player like Kuzma, sacrificing the bbiq, shooting ability and compatibility with Giannis of Khris. Even getting Dame for his offense when his defense is so poor. And of course getting inferior coaches like Griffin and Doc who was visibly outcoached yesterday by the fired Bud.

In recent times, Kuzma acquisition was a terrible mismatch with Giannis on offense.

Horst and Doc need to go. Not sure who to get.

[msiris]

There is no Kuzma fan club. Some of us try to remain positive because we are Bucks fans and not player fans. We still have same problems we had before the deadline. Nothing has changed.

[paulpressey25]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

Did you watch him play for the Celtics in the playoffs last year? Or the final minutes of most of our key playoff games? Yes, he'd look out of control at times and then all of sudden the big plays come. If you want to call it clutch versus BBIQ that's fine, but I'd then argue he might represent our highest clutch or BBIQ guy if he were on this current roster.

The owners, Giannis and a chunk of the fanbase completely panicked after Jimmy Butler (your guy) went nuclear on us during that Miami playoff series two years ago. Did Jrue and Bud crap the bed? Yes, yes they did. But no one had the discipline to put that mess in proper perspective.

[randy84]

I have nostalgia for KM, but not Jrue. KM was a much better player, when healthy, than Jrue, although few people agree with that.

As for bad drafting, when you don't have picks it's hard to choose wisely. I'd like a new GM, but only if it's the right one. There are so many bad ones out there that you could do even worse.

I always laugh at people who defend Horst because he didn’t have draft picks. Then I review Horst’s transaction record and realize that he was the one keeping him from having draft picks.

Sign Snell to a contract with a players option and then trade him and a first rd pick for Jon Leuer. That’s some low level GMing.

[JEIS]

We will get our butts handed to us against teams that rebound well. We need to be darn near perfect because we are putting up 80 to 90 shots a game. When we had bud, we were getting up more shots and rebounding a lot better. That may go hand and hand. We were actually getting steals yesterday, which kept us in the game.

[Ron Swanson]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

Did you watch him play for the Celtics in the playoffs last year? Or the final minutes of most of our key playoff games? Yes, he'd look out of control at times and then all of sudden the big plays come. If you want to call it clutch versus BBIQ that's fine, but I'd then argue he might represent our highest clutch or BBIQ guy if he were on this current roster.

The owners and a chunk of the fanbase completely panicked after Jimmy Butler (your guy) went nuclear on us during that Miami playoff series two years ago. Did Jrue and Bud crap the bed? Yes, yes they did. But no one had the discipline to put that mess in proper perspective.

Yeah, there's a difference between having a knack for making clutch shots and defensive plays, but that never translated to consistent "high IQ" play with a guy like Jrue. Dude was a risk taker. When it worked he made some iconic plays (Valley oop, step-back 3 in Game 7 vs. BKN), but when it didn't, his shot selection, efficiency, and stubbornness (refusing to switch off Jimmy) really tanked our chances in close games.

But what we're seeing now is also why I always pushed back real hard on this idea that those previous teams were a bunch of low-IQ dummies. We never had some great half-court perimeter offensive initiator outside of Khris who was, honestly, always miscast in that role out of necessity. The 2021 Bucks weren't exactly the Pop/Duncan Spurs, but they were an incredibly elite defensive team filled with smart dudes who knew their roles. Giannis isn't literally Magic Johnson, but he's also not some mix of Shaq trying to dribble and the dumbest MVP level player in history.

This stuff is mostly fixable as long as you have the talent, but everyone looks dumber when the collective infrastructure of coaching and roster fit sucks. Hire dumb coaches, dumb coaches implement dumb/outdated schemes, GM acquires dumb and ill-fitting players because it's more difficult to properly identify actual personnel problems under said dumb coach. It's the same vicious cycle we suffered from for decades under Kohl, but it's worse now because we have the one thing (Capital "S" Superstar) that's the most important piece in being a contender.

[ShootingtheJ]

It doesn’t matter what this organization does…we aren’t winning anything if Giannis continues to be a trainwreck at the line. It is just so deflating to have to go through his process only to miss both free throws

Yeah, he seemed to be finding a rythm, but last night went backwards and it basically costed us a very winnable game.

[fansinceforever]

This off-season needs to be a complete overhaul of the roster, FO and coaching staff or they're just trying to squeeze what little juice is left out whatever the hell this is.

I'm ok retooling around Giannis if it's possible to build a competent team that may compete. If not, it may be time to cash in our final chip.

[BUCKnation]

It doesn’t matter what this organization does…we aren’t winning anything if Giannis continues to be a trainwreck at the line. It is just so deflating to have to go through his process only to miss both free throws

Yeah, he seemed to be finding a rythm, but last night went backwards and it basically costed us a very winnable game.

He's had a nice run of games and I think was 5/7 last night halfway through the 3rd, but finished 6/13, which is tough in a game that was back and forth all night.

[soxperry]

It's hilarious how different the reactions would have been if Brook simply makes that shot.

On the road, Dame out, another of our top 6 players out, and Phoenix has a great record when Beal doesn't play. Still played well enough to win. I'm much more upset about the last defensive possession than the last offensive possession. 1.7 with no Dame on the court is just very tough. But you can't give Booker an absolute wide open mid range.

[fansinceforever]

My opinion about this team would not have changed at all had Brook made that shot. I don't think this board is being reactionary to individual performances.

[Ron Swanson]

We let a bottom-4 defense in basketball look like defensive stoppers in the half court. We outgained them at the line and crushed them in the turnover battle (7 to 16). We played Brook 41 **** minutes when they were playing KD at Center down the stretch, and people wonder why we let the 3rd worst offensive rebounding team in the league live on the glass. We once again lost the math game (14 threes to 12).

Brook making a tough fadeaway out of a moronic inbounds play-call to send the game into OT would have changed nothing about the vibes of this team, even if we did go on to win it. I'm just done trying to convince anyone that this isn't a coaching issue at this point. Doc is exactly who everyone outside of the blindest homers warned us about. Shocking.

[tydett]

We all know this team is currently being run/coached by morons and Kyle Kuzma ain't it, but ret-conning Jrue as some stable, high IQ basketball dude ain't it either, man. He had plenty of legendary playoff brain farts.

Did you watch him play for the Celtics in the playoffs last year? Or the final minutes of most of our key playoff games? Yes, he'd look out of control at times and then all of sudden the big plays come. If you want to call it clutch versus BBIQ that's fine, but I'd then argue he might represent our highest clutch or BBIQ guy if he were on this current roster.

The owners, Giannis and a chunk of the fanbase completely panicked after Jimmy Butler (your guy) went nuclear on us during that Miami playoff series two years ago. Did Jrue and Bud crap the bed? Yes, yes they did. But no one had the discipline to put that mess in proper perspective.

I don't agree wholly with your post, but I do think the last part is worth discussing a bit more. I think you're absolutely correct that Butler cooked, Jrue played his worst playoff ball, and Bud was distracted, combined with Giannis being out (**** Kevin Love). I also think that if the Bucks (and by extension, this forum) had known that they might be able to get Lillard later that summer, that they would've kept Bud to see what a good coach could build out of the Giannis/Dame pairing. That being said, after that season, the Bucks were a cap-locked team with little avenue for improvement and seemingly no trade options that would make the team immediately better. The coach is easily the easiest individual to change on a team because there's no penalty for doing so aside from salary, and so getting rid of Bud seemed the only possibility for a team that had essentially stagnated 4 of the previous 5 seasons.

Again, it's relative hindsight bias to say the Bucks should've kept Bud because of the trash they've installed in the head coaching spot since.