Kon Knueppel

[JMAC3]

Again bro you seem to have seriously low intellect. Is it lap taking when a dude clearly failed to have an NBA career? This isn't a case where waiting is going to change the ansewr. Hyun jung wasn't an NBA player.

You just seem absolutely clueless every time and you keep telling on yourself. Liek seriously bro, every time you call me out you're just making my points for me LMAO. Keep it up!

I tease you about being the least humble dude here... and get hit with a low intellect comment- come on man be better than that.

Again, you unprompted attempting to scoreboard some great call on a guy nobody mentioned.. it is just weird is all.
but yes.. keep sprinkling these meaningless takes throughout the threads to prove you are "better at this than us" lol

Hey man if it makes you feel better about yourself to rationalize not finding Walter Clayton before his tourney run, you do you.

smh you really are oblivious

[Bernman]

Corey Kispert. Listed at 6-7 but he looks 6-5. Self-creation? I don't see it, attacking closeouts is not self-creation. Has a decent floor but the ceiling screams draft outside the top 10.

It's not a terrible comparison, but falls apart on the passing, & his strength makes him more interesting as an inside the arc finisher + competent defender. That's more of a physical comparison. Dillon Brooks also is.

Also, we don't have a true perspective on how good Kispert is at this point because he plays w/ a franchise where players look better when they leave. It especially may be true for him because he's dependent upon others for looks, & sets to be run for him. Redick's rep grew up after this pt.

[Dat2U]

Corey Kispert. Listed at 6-7 but he looks 6-5. Self-creation? I don't see it, attacking closeouts is not self-creation. Has a decent floor but the ceiling screams draft outside the top 10.

It's not a terrible comparison, but falls apart on the passing, & his strength makes him more interesting as an inside the arc finisher + competent defender.

Also, we don't have a true perspective on how good Kispert is at this point because he plays w/ a franchise where players look better when they leave. It especially may be true for him because he's dependent upon others for looks, & sets to be run for him. Redick's rep grew up after this pt.

I don't buy the competent defender part. He's going to looked at as BBQ chicken until proven otherwise and attacked relentlessly. Kispert isn't a terrible passer or finisher either... it's just as undersized role playing wing player and non-defender, it's really hard to move the needle.

[Bernman]

I don't buy the competent defender part. He's going to looked at as BBQ chicken until proven otherwise and attacked relentlessly. Kispert isn't a terrible passer or finisher either... it's just as undersized role playing wing player and non-defender, it's really hard to move the needle.

Knueppel averaged significantly more assists and a higher ast/to ratio as a frosh than Kispert in any of his 4 college seasons. This is an objective advantage.

AJ Green has been a defensive asset in the NBA (#1 in d-rating each of the last 2 years for the Bucks), when he was projected to be a liability. He has arguably worse tools than Knueppel (smaller at 6'4, less strong). Does it off solid strength, anticipation, effort; similar to Kon.

Duke had an elite defense w/ Kon on the floor. That's hard to do if you're some easily targetable weak link. I think he'll be decent in the dept.

[The-Power]

Duke had an elite defense w/ Kon on the floor. That's hard to do if you're some easily targetable weak link.

I don't think that's true for college. You can have elite defense with some limited defensive players with the right team and system around you. Virtually no college team is talented enough to consistently target weak defenders with great success, especially when those weak defenders are surrounded by competent ones and a functioning system. Today's NBA is a different beast entirely. You can still have a great defense with a subpar defender in the line-up but it's much more difficult and NBA teams only humor those players when they bring elite offense to the table. I'm not dismissing Knueppel here, by the way; I just wanted to point out that this line of argumentation is too weak on its own, especially in NCAA basketball.

[Braggins]

Bojan Bogdanovic with better passing seems like a reasonable comparison to me.

[greg4012]

I don't buy the competent defender part. He's going to looked at as BBQ chicken until proven otherwise and attacked relentlessly. Kispert isn't a terrible passer or finisher either... it's just as undersized role playing wing player and non-defender, it's really hard to move the needle.

Knueppel averaged significantly more assists and a higher ast/to ratio as a frosh than Kispert in any of his 4 college seasons. This is an objective advantage.

AJ Green has been a defensive asset in the NBA (#1 in d-rating each of the last 2 years for the Bucks), when he was projected to be a liability. He has arguably worse tools than Knueppel (smaller at 6'4, less strong). Does it off solid strength, anticipation, effort; similar to Kon.

Duke had an elite defense w/ Kon on the floor. That's hard to do if you're some easily targetable weak link. I think he'll be decent in the dept.

AJ Green has had a negative DBPM every season in the NBA. He's a 25 year old role player that provides more energy on the defensive end than Damian Lillard in the regular season. You're way off here.

[Special_Puppy]

I do think there’s a chance that his game doesn’t translate well because of the athleticism concerns and he’s allocated to a role player, but there’s a chance that those concerns are overblown and he’s a perennial All-Star

[Bernman]

AJ Green has had a negative DBPM every season in the NBA. He's a 25 year old role player that provides more energy on the defensive end than Damian Lillard in the regular season. You're way off here.

BPM is a pretty worthless stat, especially for defense. You can't quantify it based on blocks, steals, etc. It's a small amount of actions. Defense is heavily about staying in front, forcing the player to give the ball up, take a tough shot, or deny initially. Which Green does excellently.

He's #1 on the Bucks in pts allowed per possession w/ him on the floor his 2 full seasons. The bb gods aren't somehow conspiring to make him look outstanding. If anything the refs are conspiring against him look bad cuz he has the worst whistle in the league (it's probably just profiling).

You're ignorant here. Should have picked a different line of argumentation, like how Knueppel isn't akin to Green on d. Cuz if he is, some team's cooking w/ gas, since Kon's offense is much better.

[greg4012]

AJ Green has had a negative DBPM every season in the NBA. He's a 25 year old role player that provides more energy on the defensive end than Damian Lillard in the regular season. You're way off here.

BPM is a pretty worthless stat, especially for defense. You can't quantify it based on blocks, steals, etc. It's a small amount of actions. Defense is heavily about staying in front, forcing the player to give the ball up, take a tough shot, or deny initially. Which Green does excellently.

He's #1 on the Bucks in pts allowed per possession w/ him on the floor his 2 full seasons. The bb gods aren't somehow conspiring to make him look outstanding. If anything the refs are conspiring against him look bad cuz he has the worst whistle in the league (it's probably just profiling).

You're ignorant here. Should have picked a different line of argumentation, like how Knueppel isn't akin to Green on d. Cuz if he is, some team's cooking w/ gas, since Kon's offense is much better.

Strong disagree. But, with your misguided dismissal was another worthwhile consideration that you highlighted--Green and Kneuppel are basically nothing alike. Green is an energy bench player that functions as a POA defender on a team that has none. That makes his role inherently valuable for MIL even if hes just OK at it. That's what your DRTG is showing.

Is the point you're trying to make that being a below average athlete is a good thing for translating to NBA defense???

Since you're such a champion for DRTG, what do you make of the fact that Kon has the 2nd worst DRTG on the Duke squad among the top 7 rotation players (behind only Tyrese Proctor)???

You sound like you're Kon's uncle or something with a sphere of basketball observation limited to the state of Wisconsin.

[Bernman]

Strong disagree. But, with your misguided dismissal was another worthwhile consideration that you highlighted--Green and Kneuppel are basically nothing alike. Green is an energy bench player that functions as a POA defender on a team that has none. That makes his role inherently valuable for MIL even if hes just OK at it. That's what your DRTG is showing.

Is the point you're trying to make that being a below average athlete is a good thing for translating to NBA defense???

Since you're such a champion for DRTG, what do you make of the fact that Kon has the 2nd worst DRTG on the Duke squad among the top 7 rotation players (behind only Tyrese Proctor)???

You sound like you're Kon's uncle or something with a sphere of basketball observation limited to the state of Wisconsin.

The Bucks' d-rating w/ Green on the court would qualify them for 2nd in the NBA, and it's 1st when he actually mixes in w/ the starting unit. How does that then just make him be good relative to his team?

Green had the 2nd worst d-rating for Northern Iowa & they weren't good w/ him on the court. Duke wasn't that low & had an outstanding D w/ Kon on the court.

The point, as I told you, was you can be even be a good defender w/ strength, effort, & anticipation. Kon just even has to hang, w/ his offensive superiority.

You sound like an immature guy petulantly flailing for an advantage when you got out-pointed in an ever-important discussion about NBA prospects.

[JMAC3]

Feels like the passing aspect of his game is getting oversold in this thread, his assist % is 15.7. Doesn't appear to be anything special comparing him to other prospects in the past. Lower than Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Will Riley.

Also, from what I have seen most of his assists are coming off sets where the passes are pre-designed vs him actually playing in the flow of the offense where he is creating advantages and picking a defense apart.

Overall I think his passing is average at best, and is helped heavily by being surrounded by a top tier lob threat, the best player in the country and multiple 40% shooters.

[RipCity71252]

Feels like the passing aspect of his game is getting oversold in this thread, his assist % is 15.7. Doesn't appear to be anything special comparing him to other prospects in the past. Lower than Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Will Riley.

Also, from what I have seen most of his assists are coming off sets where the passes are pre-designed vs him actually playing in the flow of the offense where he is creating advantages and picking a defense apart.

Overall I think his passing is average at best, and is helped heavily by being surrounded by a top tier lob threat, the best player in the country and multiple 40% shooters.

My eyes see otherwise. Most are through the flow or in pick and roll.

And I'd argue his assist rate is deflated playing with three other ball handlers in Duke's starting lineup.

https://youtu.be/CmqZ89p3SDo?si=925Y7Is0oIsxIiRN

[greg4012]

Strong disagree. But, with your misguided dismissal was another worthwhile consideration that you highlighted--Green and Kneuppel are basically nothing alike. Green is an energy bench player that functions as a POA defender on a team that has none. That makes his role inherently valuable for MIL even if hes just OK at it. That's what your DRTG is showing.

Is the point you're trying to make that being a below average athlete is a good thing for translating to NBA defense???

Since you're such a champion for DRTG, what do you make of the fact that Kon has the 2nd worst DRTG on the Duke squad among the top 7 rotation players (behind only Tyrese Proctor)???

You sound like you're Kon's uncle or something with a sphere of basketball observation limited to the state of Wisconsin.

The Bucks' d-rating w/ Green on the court would qualify them for 2nd in the NBA, and it's 1st when he actually mixes in w/ the starting unit. How does that then just make him be good relative to his team?

Green had the 2nd worst d-rating for Northern Iowa & they weren't good w/ him on the court. Duke wasn't that low & had an outstanding D w/ Kon on the court.

The point, as I told you, was you can be even be a good defender w/ strength, effort, & anticipation. Kon just even has to hang, w/ his offensive superiority.

You sound like an immature guy petulantly flailing for an advantage when you got out-pointed in an ever-important discussion about NBA prospects.

Nonsense aside (which is most of your post), you're trying to turn an exception into a rule. Green clearly re-made his game to do one thing well enough to catch on as a role player at the NBA level--POA defender. AKA the Gabe Vincent approach. He had the requisite athleticism/feet to really hone in on that and stick around serving a necessary function for MIL (POA defense) while doing little else but not making mistakes/negative plays either. If that's your aspiration for Kon, then we're generally in alignment in thinking he has a good floor but very limited ceiling.

I can't watch his college tape and see him regularly get walked by faster guards and expect him to be ANYTHING like AJ Green as a defender in the NBA. Can he leverage his stout frame to be an adequate positional defender? Possibly. Will he suddenly develop the foot speed to serve as a POA defender, I'd bet anything the answer to that is NO.

How I see Kon as a defender at the NBA level is likely a one-position defender that can survive limited switches on bigger players that lack skill or offensive creation as long as it's not at the rim. I see him struggling mightily with fast guards. With that, his measurements are pretty important. If he is closer to 6'5 than his listed 6'7, then he's getting closer and closer to no man's land as a defender. If he's 6'7, then I can see him being a 2 position defender and generally neutral. Which would be a win.

I'm 100% sure Kon will be a good spot-up shooter in the NBA. I'm not a big believer in his handle or footspeed to be anything more than an ancillary ballhandler. I think he can be a connective passer. I believe his pull-up shooting numbers and dunk numbers are huge red flags.

Enjoy your cheese.

[JMAC3]

Feels like the passing aspect of his game is getting oversold in this thread, his assist % is 15.7. Doesn't appear to be anything special comparing him to other prospects in the past. Lower than Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Will Riley.

Also, from what I have seen most of his assists are coming off sets where the passes are pre-designed vs him actually playing in the flow of the offense where he is creating advantages and picking a defense apart.

Overall I think his passing is average at best, and is helped heavily by being surrounded by a top tier lob threat, the best player in the country and multiple 40% shooters.

My eyes see otherwise. Most are through the flow or in pick and roll.

And I'd argue his assist rate is deflated playing with three other ball handlers in Duke's starting lineup.

https://youtu.be/CmqZ89p3SDo?si=925Y7Is0oIsxIiRN

Are we watching the same video?

More than half of these assists are the pre-designed spam play of dribble hand off on the empty side with Maluach where he throws it up to the 7-2 guy who is 5 inches taller than everyone?

He is a straight line driver, who is not good at beating his man. The few times he tries to change direction on the drive, he literally fell to the ground (4:35). He has absolutely no wiggle or shake to his game, along with no vertical pop and a below average first step. So many times in this video where he gets within 5 feet of the rim vs 1 defender, the dribble gets picked up because the advantage is lost.

The eye test is nothing special, nothing that I feel like you can replicate in the NBA that will provide above average playmaking. That along with the very mediocre 15.7% assist rate and I feel pretty confident playmaking is neutral at best at the next level.

[RipCity71252]

Feels like the passing aspect of his game is getting oversold in this thread, his assist % is 15.7. Doesn't appear to be anything special comparing him to other prospects in the past. Lower than Edgecombe, Tre Johnson and Will Riley.

Also, from what I have seen most of his assists are coming off sets where the passes are pre-designed vs him actually playing in the flow of the offense where he is creating advantages and picking a defense apart.

Overall I think his passing is average at best, and is helped heavily by being surrounded by a top tier lob threat, the best player in the country and multiple 40% shooters.

My eyes see otherwise. Most are through the flow or in pick and roll.

And I'd argue his assist rate is deflated playing with three other ball handlers in Duke's starting lineup.

https://youtu.be/CmqZ89p3SDo?si=925Y7Is0oIsxIiRN

Are we watching the same video?

More than half of these assists are the pre-designed spam play of dribble hand off on the empty side with Maluach where he throws it up to the 7-2 guy who is 5 inches taller than everyone?

He is a straight line driver, who is not good at beating his man. The few times he tries to change direction on the drive, he literally fell to the ground (4:35). He has absolutely no wiggle or shake to his game, along with no vertical pop and a below average first step. So many times in this video where he gets within 5 feet of the rim vs 1 defender, the dribble gets picked up because the advantage is lost.

The eye test is nothing special, nothing that I feel like you can replicate in the NBA that will provide above average playmaking. That along with the very mediocre 15.7% assist rate and I feel pretty confident playmaking is neutral at best at the next level.

More than half is a big overstatement but that's besides the point. And don't know why we are denigrating Kon's passing because he was on a good team with good spacing and lob catcher. That pass is still a very high value pass and he executed it with great touch and placement.

It's not like he was Evan Turner standing out top hitting guys off pin downs. And Kon has shown in other contexts to make every pass in the book.

Will his self-creation limitations limit his passing potential...very likely. But for the role that he's going to play in the NBA, I think he's going to very likely clear the neutral passing threshold.

[JMAC3]

My eyes see otherwise. Most are through the flow or in pick and roll.

And I'd argue his assist rate is deflated playing with three other ball handlers in Duke's starting lineup.

https://youtu.be/CmqZ89p3SDo?si=925Y7Is0oIsxIiRN

Are we watching the same video?

More than half of these assists are the pre-designed spam play of dribble hand off on the empty side with Maluach where he throws it up to the 7-2 guy who is 5 inches taller than everyone?

He is a straight line driver, who is not good at beating his man. The few times he tries to change direction on the drive, he literally fell to the ground (4:35). He has absolutely no wiggle or shake to his game, along with no vertical pop and a below average first step. So many times in this video where he gets within 5 feet of the rim vs 1 defender, the dribble gets picked up because the advantage is lost.

The eye test is nothing special, nothing that I feel like you can replicate in the NBA that will provide above average playmaking. That along with the very mediocre 15.7% assist rate and I feel pretty confident playmaking is neutral at best at the next level.

More than half is a big overstatement but that's besides the point. And don't know why we are denigrating Kon's passing because he was on a good team with good spacing and lob catcher. That pass is still a very high value pass and he executed it with great touch and placement.

It's not like he was Evan Turner standing out top hitting guys off pin downs. And Kon has shown in other contexts to make every pass in the book.

Will his self-creation limitations limit his passing potential...very likely. But for the role that he's going to play in the NBA, I think he's going to very likely clear the neutral passing threshold.

Do you not think Kon playing on the best team in the country with the best offense in the country with the best player in the country should have helped him get more assists? Even still he had a mediocre assist rate. That is the point.

If you put him on the 75th best team in the country, the game is much tougher for him.

[RipCity71252]

Are we watching the same video?

More than half of these assists are the pre-designed spam play of dribble hand off on the empty side with Maluach where he throws it up to the 7-2 guy who is 5 inches taller than everyone?

He is a straight line driver, who is not good at beating his man. The few times he tries to change direction on the drive, he literally fell to the ground (4:35). He has absolutely no wiggle or shake to his game, along with no vertical pop and a below average first step. So many times in this video where he gets within 5 feet of the rim vs 1 defender, the dribble gets picked up because the advantage is lost.

The eye test is nothing special, nothing that I feel like you can replicate in the NBA that will provide above average playmaking. That along with the very mediocre 15.7% assist rate and I feel pretty confident playmaking is neutral at best at the next level.

More than half is a big overstatement but that's besides the point. And don't know why we are denigrating Kon's passing because he was on a good team with good spacing and lob catcher. That pass is still a very high value pass and he executed it with great touch and placement.

It's not like he was Evan Turner standing out top hitting guys off pin downs. And Kon has shown in other contexts to make every pass in the book.

Will his self-creation limitations limit his passing potential...very likely. But for the role that he's going to play in the NBA, I think he's going to very likely clear the neutral passing threshold.

Do you not think Kon playing on the best team in the country with the best offense in the country with the best player in the country should have helped him get more assists? Even still he had a mediocre assist rate. That is the point.

If you put him on the 75th best team in the country, the game is much tougher for him.

Of course it would be tougher but I don't think being on Duke's team is helping his assist rate.

If he's on a worse team, I think he averages more assists and scores more on lower but still above average efficiency.

He led the eybl in scoring his senior year and handle the ball a ton....and idk maybe I'm wrong but I think his tape and foundational skills of elite shooting, sure-handedness with the ball and strength equates to a guy that should be able to handle some pretty decent usage in the NBA as an action shooter plus second side playmaker and think he's smart enough to generate good kooks off of the attention his shooting is going to draw.

We'll see.

[JMAC3]

More than half is a big overstatement but that's besides the point. And don't know why we are denigrating Kon's passing because he was on a good team with good spacing and lob catcher. That pass is still a very high value pass and he executed it with great touch and placement.

It's not like he was Evan Turner standing out top hitting guys off pin downs. And Kon has shown in other contexts to make every pass in the book.

Will his self-creation limitations limit his passing potential...very likely. But for the role that he's going to play in the NBA, I think he's going to very likely clear the neutral passing threshold.

Do you not think Kon playing on the best team in the country with the best offense in the country with the best player in the country should have helped him get more assists? Even still he had a mediocre assist rate. That is the point.

If you put him on the 75th best team in the country, the game is much tougher for him.

Of course it would be tougher but I don't think being on Duke's team is helping his assist rate.

If he's on a worse team, I think he averages more assists and scores more on lower but still above average efficiency.

He led the eybl in scoring his senior year and handle the ball a ton....and idk maybe I'm wrong but I think his tape and foundational skills of elite shooting, sure-handedness with the ball and strength equates to a guy that should be able to handle some pretty decent usage in the NBA as an action shooter plus second side playmaker and think he's smart enough to generate good kooks off of the attention his shooting is going to draw.

We'll see.

Already posted in the thread, but Kneuppel lacks the ability to create his own shot. He shot 3/21 on off the dribble threes this year.

Read on Twitter

[RipCity71252]

Do you not think Kon playing on the best team in the country with the best offense in the country with the best player in the country should have helped him get more assists? Even still he had a mediocre assist rate. That is the point.

If you put him on the 75th best team in the country, the game is much tougher for him.

Of course it would be tougher but I don't think being on Duke's team is helping his assist rate.

If he's on a worse team, I think he averages more assists and scores more on lower but still above average efficiency.

He led the eybl in scoring his senior year and handle the ball a ton....and idk maybe I'm wrong but I think his tape and foundational skills of elite shooting, sure-handedness with the ball and strength equates to a guy that should be able to handle some pretty decent usage in the NBA as an action shooter plus second side playmaker and think he's smart enough to generate good kooks off of the attention his shooting is going to draw.

We'll see.

Already posted in the thread, but Kneuppel lacks the ability to create his own shot. He shot 3/21 on off the dribble threes this year.

Read on Twitter

And as already included in my response, I know Kon has self creation limitations.

I would be warry of putting huge stock in a 21 shot sample by an otherwise elite 19 year old shooter though.

I think he'll be fine pull up shooter in time. Not of the 1v1 pull up variety as he just doesn't have that type of pop or rise on his jumper but I wouldn't put developing a step back 3 past him with his strength, footwork and release point with more reps.

And if teams play back on him in pnr which he rarely saw in college, I think he'll be good in those situations as well although he definitely leans drive in those situations right now.