2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[BobbieL]

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What stupid thing will Mat do?

Buying out - stupid

Stretching — really stupid

Trading if you have to include draft picks - really really really stupid

Yeah, we can't give up draft picks, Stretching is dumb too because we are not going to compete and I'd rather have massive cap space in a couple years than like $20 million hitting our cap next year. Hopefully Beal holds firm on his NTC.

Buying out is by far the best option of the ones available because we still open up a ton of cap space in 2 years. We are not getting assets back for him and will need to include picks. Stretching as we've talked about just hurts us for longer.

Buying out doesn't really create cap space though, just saves Ish some money, so not sure I'd do that. If we could trade Book and KD, it makes sense to keep him anyway for a good natured vet who is good for the locker room. He'd be a lot better as the main guy too. We wouldn't be good but he might help youngsters along.

When I wrote what I wrote -- I wrote it in terms of a normal process. We are talking about Ishbia.

So I have kind of backtracked as buying him out might be the best option.
Trading him - will in all likelijhood cost assets
Stretching him - just prolongs the pain
So buying him out saves Ishbia money and precludes him from doing something REALLY stupid like keeping Durant, and trading for somebody like Embiid or PG13.

The Gambo report about not trading Booler - that just has to be about not tanking his value. This organization cannot be serious if they don't at least see what options are out there for Booker.

As personally, I think Beal can do for two years and hte Suns can "get by" with him at the 2G. As he would be the main guy. I don't think the drop off from Booker to Beal will be that much - but the players you get around Beal with a Booker trade are better than vice versa. Booker and Durant NEED to go

[BobbieL]

Bud is completely absent and disinterested form day 1, i wasn't in favor of his hiring in the first place. But how many coaches came and went during Booker's tenure here and not a single one of them aside from Monty made a winning team with him as a focal point. On top of that, one could argue that without Paul it wouldn't happen at all. Really, Armani has been good for us, but it's not like he brought us a chip, got multiple mvp trophies or anything close to that so that Suns should be his hostages for years. I do not think PHX owes him a thing. If they traded away a guy that played every single game for us, from the day he entered the league, and held pinned 'i don't ever wanna leave' status on one of his social media for years, then what are we even talking about...

PREACH!!

And yes, I hated the Durant trade - partly as Mikal was my favorite player on the team. But I also know business is business and if trading Mikal could help the team, so be it. So to your point, Devin has been a very good player - but this year, I have soured on him. Now, I of course do not know what is in his head but he just seemed comfortable losing. Again, I could be totally wrong but he seemed like "okay" with it.

So I know what Gambo says per the Sabrestar post but trading Booker should be discussed - it shouldn't be a non-starter. D'Antoni was willing to trade Nash for the right price.

[Ghost of Kleine]

What stupid thing will Mat do?

Buying out - stupid

Stretching — really stupid

Trading if you have to include draft picks - really really really stupid

Yeah, we can't give up draft picks, Stretching is dumb too because we are not going to compete and I'd rather have massive cap space in a couple years than like $20 million hitting our cap next year. Hopefully Beal holds firm on his NTC.

Buying out is by far the best option of the ones available because we still open up a ton of cap space in 2 years. We are not getting assets back for him and will need to include picks. Stretching as we've talked about just hurts us for longer.

Buying out doesn't really create cap space though, just saves Ish some money, so not sure I'd do that. If we could trade Book and KD, it makes sense to keep him anyway for a good natured vet who is good for the locker room. He'd be a lot better as the main guy too. We wouldn't be good but he might help youngsters along.

Beal can be our tank commander while we offload KD and Book there really is no other way because you won't find another owner dumb enough to take on a declining Beal at the supermax and even in the last year of his deal we likely will have to take back contracts that other teams are trying to offload.

What we need to do is get off of any long term contracts and stack assets even if they're 2nd round picks and Ishbia can buy the best scouts that money can buy and rebuild through the draft.

[BobbieL]

Yeah, we can't give up draft picks, Stretching is dumb too because we are not going to compete and I'd rather have massive cap space in a couple years than like $20 million hitting our cap next year. Hopefully Beal holds firm on his NTC.

Buying out is by far the best option of the ones available because we still open up a ton of cap space in 2 years. We are not getting assets back for him and will need to include picks. Stretching as we've talked about just hurts us for longer.

Buying out doesn't really create cap space though, just saves Ish some money, so not sure I'd do that. If we could trade Book and KD, it makes sense to keep him anyway for a good natured vet who is good for the locker room. He'd be a lot better as the main guy too. We wouldn't be good but he might help youngsters along.

Beal can be our tank commander while we offload KD and Book there really is no other way because you won't find another owner dumb enough to take on a declining Beal at the supermax and even in the last year of his deal we likely will have to take back contracts that other teams are trying to offload.

What we need to do is get off of any long term contracts and stack assets even if they're 2nd round picks and Ishbia can buy the best scouts that money can buy and rebuild through the draft.

Exactly right -- four players
Booker - get very good value, an A trade
Durant - -get good value - a B trade
hopefully by this point under the aprons

O'Neale and Allen - trade for expirings that match the 2027 beal contract -

Granted, Gambo said Booker is staying so Beal will be traded for a terrible contract plus probably give up assets from the Durant trade
All to finish 11th

[Saberestar]

Bud is completely absent and disinterested form day 1, i wasn't in favor of his hiring in the first place. But how many coaches came and went during Booker's tenure here and not a single one of them aside from Monty made a winning team with him as a focal point. On top of that, one could argue that without Paul it wouldn't happen at all. Really, Armani has been good for us, but it's not like he brought us a chip, got multiple mvp trophies or anything close to that so that Suns should be his hostages for years. I do not think PHX owes him a thing. If they traded away a guy that played every single game for us, from the day he entered the league, and held pinned 'i don't ever wanna leave' status on one of his social media for years, then what are we even talking about...

PREACH!!

And yes, I hated the Durant trade - partly as Mikal was my favorite player on the team. But I also know business is business and if trading Mikal could help the team, so be it. So to your point, Devin has been a very good player - but this year, I have soured on him. Now, I of course do not know what is in his head but he just seemed comfortable losing. Again, I could be totally wrong but he seemed like "okay" with it.

So I know what Gambo says per the Sabrestar post but trading Booker should be discussed - it shouldn't be a non-starter. D'Antoni was willing to trade Nash for the right price.

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

[BobbieL]

Bud is completely absent and disinterested form day 1, i wasn't in favor of his hiring in the first place. But how many coaches came and went during Booker's tenure here and not a single one of them aside from Monty made a winning team with him as a focal point. On top of that, one could argue that without Paul it wouldn't happen at all. Really, Armani has been good for us, but it's not like he brought us a chip, got multiple mvp trophies or anything close to that so that Suns should be his hostages for years. I do not think PHX owes him a thing. If they traded away a guy that played every single game for us, from the day he entered the league, and held pinned 'i don't ever wanna leave' status on one of his social media for years, then what are we even talking about...

PREACH!!

And yes, I hated the Durant trade - partly as Mikal was my favorite player on the team. But I also know business is business and if trading Mikal could help the team, so be it. So to your point, Devin has been a very good player - but this year, I have soured on him. Now, I of course do not know what is in his head but he just seemed comfortable losing. Again, I could be totally wrong but he seemed like "okay" with it.

So I know what Gambo says per the Sabrestar post but trading Booker should be discussed - it shouldn't be a non-starter. D'Antoni was willing to trade Nash for the right price.

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

I don't get it - if Ishbia isn't willing to discuss trading Booker than he is 100% complete full of **** about winning a title. If the goal is to win a title - which Ishbia says is his goal - why wouldn't that be an option.

If the goal is to hopefully have a player on the court that will attract fans to attend games- fine. But not being open to trading Booker isn't about doing everything to win a title.

[bwgood77]

PREACH!!

And yes, I hated the Durant trade - partly as Mikal was my favorite player on the team. But I also know business is business and if trading Mikal could help the team, so be it. So to your point, Devin has been a very good player - but this year, I have soured on him. Now, I of course do not know what is in his head but he just seemed comfortable losing. Again, I could be totally wrong but he seemed like "okay" with it.

So I know what Gambo says per the Sabrestar post but trading Booker should be discussed - it shouldn't be a non-starter. D'Antoni was willing to trade Nash for the right price.

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

I don't get it - if Ishbia isn't willing to discuss trading Booker than he is 100% complete full of **** about winning a title. If the goal is to win a title - which Ishbia says is his goal - why wouldn't that be an option.

If the goal is to hopefully have a player on the court that will attract fans to attend games- fine. But not being open to trading Booker isn't about doing everything to win a title.

Yeah, I guess the question for those who want to keep Book is would you rather toil at the bottom of the west with Book and get nothing or have him leave in FA, or make another huge contract while we stay hovering around the play in at best? If watching Book worth it?

Or would you rather get picks, young players and rebuild, knowing we should only get better over time, have solid cheaper contracts with control for a long time, flexibility, especially in 2027, and build a team we can watch grow with chemistry and eventually compete?

[handsome salary]

I don't get not being open to trading Booker from fans or FO. I don't need another season of Booker fronting this team to last place in the Pacific Division. Seen that way too many times now.

[BobbieL]

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

I don't get it - if Ishbia isn't willing to discuss trading Booker than he is 100% complete full of **** about winning a title. If the goal is to win a title - which Ishbia says is his goal - why wouldn't that be an option.

If the goal is to hopefully have a player on the court that will attract fans to attend games- fine. But not being open to trading Booker isn't about doing everything to win a title.

Yeah, I guess the question for those who want to keep Book is would you rather toil at the bottom of the west with Book and get nothing or have him leave in FA, or make another huge contract while we stay hovering around the play in at best? If watching Book worth it?

Or would you rather get picks, young players and rebuild, knowing we should only get better over time, have solid cheaper contracts with control for a long time, flexibility, especially in 2027, and build a team we can watch grow with chemistry and eventually compete?

And that doesn't mean I am trading Booker for a crap sandwich. The Suns would have to get very good value for him. And who knows, maybe these reports from Tim McMahon, Gambo and Gerald are just so they don't take Bookers value - which would make sense I guess. But for him to be a non-starter behind closed doors in meetings, makes no sense.

[SunsRback4Good]

I don't get not being open to trading Booker from fans or FO. I don't need another season of Booker fronting this team to last place in the Pacific Division. Seen that way too many times now.

I agree with your statement and would like to hand you a cookie.

[BobbieL]

I don't get not being open to trading Booker from fans or FO. I don't need another season of Booker fronting this team to last place in the Pacific Division. Seen that way too many times now.

That is just a great way of framing it

Even if Booker is back -- they should do everything to move Allen and O"Neale

[Calvin Klein]

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I can do that for you, Devin.

You had a proper TEAM, with a great leader and game manager, good young players filling different roles, a very good defense and amazing chemistry. And all of that was traded for 36 year old Kevin Durant and NTC injury riddled Bradley Beal, both players who play the same role as you. With the highest payroll in the NBA, the roster was filled with non athletic minimum guys, none of which would see significant minutes in a contender.

[Saberestar]

PREACH!!

And yes, I hated the Durant trade - partly as Mikal was my favorite player on the team. But I also know business is business and if trading Mikal could help the team, so be it. So to your point, Devin has been a very good player - but this year, I have soured on him. Now, I of course do not know what is in his head but he just seemed comfortable losing. Again, I could be totally wrong but he seemed like "okay" with it.

So I know what Gambo says per the Sabrestar post but trading Booker should be discussed - it shouldn't be a non-starter. D'Antoni was willing to trade Nash for the right price.

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

I don't get it - if Ishbia isn't willing to discuss trading Booker than he is 100% complete full of **** about winning a title. If the goal is to win a title - which Ishbia says is his goal - why wouldn't that be an option.

If the goal is to hopefully have a player on the court that will attract fans to attend games- fine. But not being open to trading Booker isn't about doing everything to win a title.

Everyone involved with the Suns says that Book will stay on the Suns next year. Ishbia and Book themselves and all the insiders.

I am not saying if it's is a great idea or a bad idea, I am just saying that is a meaningless discussion to talk about potential trades for Book this summer because he will not be on the market.

[handsome salary]

Luka and the Lakers are gonna run the Pacific Division for at least the next three years. That's how good he is and how aging and/or bad the rest of the division is.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

Well, at this point that’s like me saying that we need to discuss about trading for Wemby in this offseason because it would be good for the Suns.

It's not happening.

I don't get it - if Ishbia isn't willing to discuss trading Booker than he is 100% complete full of **** about winning a title. If the goal is to win a title - which Ishbia says is his goal - why wouldn't that be an option.

If the goal is to hopefully have a player on the court that will attract fans to attend games- fine. But not being open to trading Booker isn't about doing everything to win a title.

Everyone involved with the Suns says that Book will stay on the Suns next year. Ishbia and Book themselves and all the insiders.

I am not saying if it's is a great idea or a bad idea, I am just saying that is a meaningless discussion to talk about potential trades for Book this summer because he will not be on the market.

I get it - I get it. 12th place in the West it will be

[KdoubleDees23]

Can we also

FIRE GAMBO

Guy is the worst

[Slim Charless]

I don't have an issue with a buyout to be honest. Theres a non-zero chance we'll pay him less to go away and he'll have an opportunity to recoup his own value as well for his next contract if he wants to avoid a vet min.

I'm also not against packaging him with some draft capital. Nothing significant of course but if we can turn him into a few smaller, more tradeable assets, that's not a bad use of a draft pick.

The only thing I'm absolutely against is trading for an even worse contract like an Embiid or a PG or the stretch and waive.

Who though?

i always see this option presented by guys here but none one ever gives up names. I did.....and people don't like the option. Which I understand as PG's deal sucks....that's the kind of thing that will be available to us. I don't see any other players that teams will off-load. FTR Philly will be paying us XT picks in order to take that deal from them. I am not saying we do a stright swap for free. We'll be getting paid.

But enough about me. Who do you think is an acceptable trade of "smaller more tradable assests" that we can get for Beal and what picks do you want to attach to him?

TIA

I talked about it before, the Orlando Magic trade.

KCP + Jonathan Isaac + Gary Harris
for
Bradley Beal + 2027 FRP (worse of 3 teams).

Beal played for the Florida Gators.
His family and him love the warm weather.
He would start for them. Prominent role.

Thank you for giving a name. KCP is a bad deal so ORL would love to get rid of him no doubt and I agree that Beal would like the warm weather, I'm not sure they need his skill set from the SG spot and I do not think he starts over Suggs. They would have to play two SGs-like we do now with Book and him.

Isaac, I like as I brought trading for him for years back when we had Ayton. Not sure his health is any better than Beal's but he is elite on D when he plays. Personally, I am not a fan of giving away more stuff to get rid of a player and would rather take picks/young players to roll the dice on another team's bad stuff.

Good post though.

[Son of Ra]

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Lolmao, brutal.

[BobbieL]

Who though?

i always see this option presented by guys here but none one ever gives up names. I did.....and people don't like the option. Which I understand as PG's deal sucks....that's the kind of thing that will be available to us. I don't see any other players that teams will off-load. FTR Philly will be paying us XT picks in order to take that deal from them. I am not saying we do a stright swap for free. We'll be getting paid.

But enough about me. Who do you think is an acceptable trade of "smaller more tradable assests" that we can get for Beal and what picks do you want to attach to him?

TIA

I talked about it before, the Orlando Magic trade.

KCP + Jonathan Isaac + Gary Harris
for
Bradley Beal + 2027 FRP (worse of 3 teams).

Beal played for the Florida Gators.
His family and him love the warm weather.
He would start for them. Prominent role.

Thank you for giving a name. KCP is a bad deal so ORL would love to get rid of him no doubt and I agree that Beal would like the warm weather, I'm not sure they need his skill set from the SG spot and I do not think he starts over Suggs. They would have to play two SGs-like we do now with Book and him.

Isaac, I like as I brought trading for him for years back when we had Ayton. Not sure his health is any better than Beal's but he is elite on D when he plays. Personally, I am not a fan of giving away more stuff to get rid of a player and would rather take picks/young players to roll the dice on another team's bad stuff.

Good post though.

Gary Harris expires this year, KCP next year, so the same as Beal and Isaac is through 2029 - but only 15m
I would be okay with this as long as the Magic didn't want a pick - which of course they would want a pick
But Ishbia, or Jones or whomever is GM - needs to STOP trading picks - its a short term fix but long term implications.

I think one of the reasons the team doesn't want to trade Booker is they already gave Charlotte the unprotected FRP for Nurkic. So they won't want to give them a top 5 pick. To me, that ship sailed

And hence, another move by Ishbia to save the cash but now you lost another draft pick

So I agree - this is a reasonable realistic trade but with including the draft pick - would pass on it.