The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[BobbieL]

Gritty, hard nosed, warrior, tough, high IQ, defender, dirt worker, bouncy, nose for the ball, passionate, coachable, hungry

Any draft picks and free agents need to hit those marks. Screw the offensive juggernauts and uber athletes with potential.

Look at the roster around Booker when he was most successful.

Not saying recreate it but I think that model would work over the “big 3”

Need a good point guard that’s for sure

Substance over style Mat …

[garrick]

Gritty, hard nosed, warrior, tough, high IQ, defender, dirt worker, bouncy, nose for the ball, passionate, coachable, hungry

Any draft picks and free agents need to hit those marks. Screw the offensive juggernauts and uber athletes with potential.

Look at the roster around Booker when he was most successful.

Not saying recreate it but I think that model would work over the “big 3”

Need a good point guard that’s for sure

Substance over style Mat …

Well yeah we need to improve at every single position and we can't have all our salaries tied up in 3 players.

Even with the big 3 in Miami they had some pretty good role players so it wasn't like they had a bunch of 2 way players or washed up vets at every position.

Ray Allen was still very much a productive player and they had Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Haslem and a bunch of other decent players that rounded up their roster.

[BobbieL]

Gritty, hard nosed, warrior, tough, high IQ, defender, dirt worker, bouncy, nose for the ball, passionate, coachable, hungry

Any draft picks and free agents need to hit those marks. Screw the offensive juggernauts and uber athletes with potential.

Look at the roster around Booker when he was most successful.

Not saying recreate it but I think that model would work over the “big 3”

Need a good point guard that’s for sure

Substance over style Mat …

Well yeah we need to improve at every single position and we can't have all our salaries tied up in 3 players.

Even with the big 3 in Miami they had some pretty good role players so it wasn't like they had a bunch of 2 way players or washed up vets at every position.

Ray Allen was still very much a productive player and they had Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Haslem and a bunch of other decent players that rounded up their roster.

Rockets getting beat by double figures

Durant might be an option if they lose 4-1

[SunsRback4Good]

Look at the roster around Booker when he was most successful.

Not saying recreate it but I think that model would work over the “big 3”

Need a good point guard that’s for sure

Substance over style Mat …

Well yeah we need to improve at every single position and we can't have all our salaries tied up in 3 players.

Even with the big 3 in Miami they had some pretty good role players so it wasn't like they had a bunch of 2 way players or washed up vets at every position.

Ray Allen was still very much a productive player and they had Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Haslem and a bunch of other decent players that rounded up their roster.

Rockets getting beat by double figures

Durant might be an option if they lose 4-1

Rockets with a massive comeback!

[mkot]

Game over.

Jalen Green had a trash game

[Mulhollanddrive]

Jalen Green lol hasnt improved from rookie year and Rockets are 7 points better when hes off

Please dont trade for him get our picks

[garrick]

Look at the roster around Booker when he was most successful.

Not saying recreate it but I think that model would work over the “big 3”

Need a good point guard that’s for sure

Substance over style Mat …

Well yeah we need to improve at every single position and we can't have all our salaries tied up in 3 players.

Even with the big 3 in Miami they had some pretty good role players so it wasn't like they had a bunch of 2 way players or washed up vets at every position.

Ray Allen was still very much a productive player and they had Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Haslem and a bunch of other decent players that rounded up their roster.

Rockets getting beat by double figures

Durant might be an option if they lose 4-1

Yes that was my thought when watching them.

I do hope the series is not that competitive and Houston flames out in 5 which would make KD a lot more attractive to Houston which lacks an elite scorer.

[sunsbum]

I am not saying it would be my favorite trade but what are you getting in the summer of 2027 for Durant - even less. Or just extend him and get nothing for him but hey, the Suns won 39 games!!

Durant is not going to bring back a lot unless Mat Ishbia's twin brother buys a team and makes a stupid trade. The Suns might have to be flexible with a Durant return. I think the Suns need to break up Booker and Durant - they are not a good combo together. That has been proven.

.....and you just got the Suns a 25 win team. When we do not have our picks....so congrats.

We have been through this a couple times and you are a good poster who I like better than some here. That said you have no idea how to gauge value apparently. You just give away our best players for nothing. The trade you posted a week or 2 ago where you had us giving Booker to the Spurs and somehow not getting Castle or any of their best firsts is another example.

You want to start over. Cool, we get it. That does not mean you just give away everything for nothing. This trade makes 0 sense. You made the Suns worse. MUCH worse in a year that again we don't have our picks. It's stupid. That's a Wizards level roster you just made with your trade and we cannot even get a good player at the end of it.

This need to take any trade. ANY trade you see for our guys makes 0 sense. Saber put that example in front of you as bait in hopes to find common ground on something to say no on and you thumbs up it.

That trade is close to as bad as the Luka trade.

My goal is simply to try to get to 2027 with draft picks and cap space. And like I wrote, the Heat trade would not be the best trade- I get that. But whats the alternativ - running it back with Booker and Durant, who I do not think work together. I would hope the Suns could get more - truly.

But some of these trades where Durant goes to Houston and get back all three suns picks plus this player and that player, aren't happening. Why? Because, those front offices are stupid like Ishbia.

Ideally, Durant goes to Houston and they get back a couple of their own picks even if that means FVV. And I don't think FVV would actually be bad with Booker.

And no trade in NBA history was worse than the Luka trade. The reality is - sad to say, the Suns are going to be terrible for at least the next ten years, if not longer. They will not be competing for NBA Titles. They barely will be competing for the play-in game. Ishbia so totally bleeped this up - worse than Sarver did by a long shot. As they don't have a future.

on the bright side of things you don’t know **** miss Cleo.

[lilfishi22]

Jalen Green lol hasnt improved from rookie year and Rockets are 7 points better when hes off

Please dont trade for him get our picks

I would think Houston values our picks more than Green. Including Green would also be logical given his salary. I think that's fine since I'm not expecting most of our draft capital back from them anyway but we can at least move Green onto a subsequent team and hopefully get some value back in that trade.

[Slim Charless]

Jalen Green lol hasnt improved from rookie year and Rockets are 7 points better when hes off

Please dont trade for him get our picks

I would think Houston values our picks more than Green. Including Green would also be logical given his salary. I think that's fine since I'm not expecting most of our draft capital back from them anyway but we can at least move Green onto a subsequent team and hopefully get some value back in that trade.

Well yeah we need to improve at every single position and we can't have all our salaries tied up in 3 players.

Even with the big 3 in Miami they had some pretty good role players so it wasn't like they had a bunch of 2 way players or washed up vets at every position.

Ray Allen was still very much a productive player and they had Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Haslem and a bunch of other decent players that rounded up their roster.

Rockets getting beat by double figures

Durant might be an option if they lose 4-1

Yes that was my thought when watching them.

I do hope the series is not that competitive and Houston flames out in 5 which would make KD a lot more attractive to Houston which lacks an elite scorer.

Tonight's game is just what we want:

Houston goes down big, comes back, then flames out in the end...due to 1 of their "stars" failing. If they had Durant tonight, they win that game.

Losing 4-1 or 4-2 with all of the games being more or less being the same as tonight would make them primed for a KD trade.

[Frank Lee]

VanVleet had a crap game too. I had him in a 5 way parlay to hit 2 threes. At one point he was 1-9 … he made it, but Sengun came up one RB short for my ticket to pay. He had like 2 boards in the second half. wtf

One of those games where they shoot better they likely win. 6/29 from 3 and 11/20 ft? Whitmore with a dnp

Clear tho, when GState clamped down, their O was stagnant. They win that game with KD instead of Green don’t you think?
Part 1 of Slim’s scheme complete

[thamadkant]

I know heat culture is a bit of an overused trope, but the level of effort Miami is playing with compared to the Suns this past season is day and night. They look like they're legitimately going to give the number 1 seed in the east a hard time in the first round despite their lack of star power.

Culture is not a myth.

Sports culture is proven.

Spurs proved it and proves it... sure they've had a bad 5 years but they are about to be dominant again for the next 15 with the moves they've made and are making.... they have picks galore, 2 cornerstone players, young up and comers and space.

Suns, I thought, was building one whe they had Crowder, CP3 leading the young, with Booker, Ayton, Cam Johnson, Mikal and so many first rounders coming up. Back in 2021 literally other teams envied the Suns. Laker fans were pondering of trading Davis for Ayton, filler and picks, the Suns were legit one reliable veteran leader off the bench from winning championships... I say that because of CP3... he tends to break down come playoffs but a veteran playmaker leader type off the bench as backup would have carried the team over.

Monty alienating Crowder and Ayton started the downfall, but it could have been salvaged by getting another coach. CP3 and Crowder together were immense locker room leaders, should have given Crowder another year of starting and just eased his minutes gradually so he could have gotten another secured contract. But Monty had his ways...

Trading for KD was a bad decision, but again could have been salvaged with Vogel fixing the Ayton issue, but before game 1 of the season, the team traded Ayton and Toumani for pretty much nothing. Let's not mention CP3 trade..

[Frank Lee]

Yeah let’s not mention that

Good recap of our demise. The window is only open for a 3-4 yr time frame. Those F-ers slammed it early. Monte was full of himself. High demand hire, felt like a prize getting him, Pop’s tree and all… but he was no fn Pop yet ruled like he was. So overrated

[Saberestar]

VanVleet had a crap game too. I had him in a 5 way parlay to hit 2 threes. At one point he was 1-9 … he made it, but Sengun came up one RB short for my ticket to pay. He had like 2 boards in the second half. wtf

One of those games where they shoot better they likely win. 6/29 from 3 and 11/20 ft? Whitmore with a dnp

Clear tho, when GState clamped down, their O was stagnant. They win that game with KD instead of Green don’t you think?
Part 1 of Slim’s scheme complete

Reed Sheppard and Cam Whitmore out of the playoffs rotation. They have been IN and OUT all season long, so no surprises here.

Reed Sheppard...is he gonna be a bust or is he gonna the next big time PG? #3 in the draft and he isn’t playing, but he has shown great things here and there during his rookie season.

I would try to get him. It's risky because the Rockets are gonna value him really high on a trade and his salary is already over $10M per year...but if he is really good we would have an starting PG for years and years to come.

The guy looks superskilled and his shooting is unreal...but the same was said about Fredette. His physical limitations are there...but the same was said about Nash, Curry and Trae.

All in all...I want him in any trade with the Rockets. I would prefer him over Tari Eason, for example. Eason is 24 years old and is a nice glue-guy but he doesn't have any All-Star potential. Sheppard has a higher ceiling.

And watching Ty Jerome lately makes it easier to think that Sheppard can be really good in this league.

[Calvin Klein]

I know heat culture is a bit of an overused trope, but the level of effort Miami is playing with compared to the Suns this past season is day and night. They look like they're legitimately going to give the number 1 seed in the east a hard time in the first round despite their lack of star power.

Culture is not a myth.

Sports culture is proven.

Spurs proved it and proves it... sure they've had a bad 5 years but they are about to be dominant again for the next 15 with the moves they've made and are making.... they have picks galore, 2 cornerstone players, young up and comers and space.

Suns, I thought, was building one whe they had Crowder, CP3 leading the young, with Booker, Ayton, Cam Johnson, Mikal and so many first rounders coming up. Back in 2021 literally other teams envied the Suns. Laker fans were pondering of trading Davis for Ayton, filler and picks, the Suns were legit one reliable veteran leader off the bench from winning championships... I say that because of CP3... he tends to break down come playoffs but a veteran playmaker leader type off the bench as backup would have carried the team over.

Monty alienating Crowder and Ayton started the downfall, but it could have been salvaged by getting another coach. CP3 and Crowder together were immense locker room leaders, should have given Crowder another year of starting and just eased his minutes gradually so he could have gotten another secured contract. But Monty had his ways...

Trading for KD was a bad decision, but again could have been salvaged with Vogel fixing the Ayton issue, but before game 1 of the season, the team traded Ayton and Toumani for pretty much nothing. Let's not mention CP3 trade..

Agreed except for the Ayton part. He is unsalvageable. We don't really know what happened. But look where Ayton is now. Blazers fans cant wait to get rid of him or only think of him as a future expiring. And Crowder has not seen significant minutes since his refusal to come off the bench, which was only logical.

Maybe Monty could have handled that better, who knows. But those two were at fault for sure.

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

Although I'm not in favor of trading Beal and attaching assets to do it because were already depleted and that would cripple our already very limited flexibility even longer. IF Ishbia were hellbent on trading Beal (as he's already shown to not recognize the value of the draft or picks).

I would promote a Beal CLE 1st to Chicago (providing Beal would be amenable to being traded) for Ball/ Vucevic/filler package.

Then I would follow it up with a KD trade to Orlando for KCP/ Isaac/ Bidatze/ Harris ($ 7 million expiring)/ ORL 25' 1st (16th pick)/ ORL 28' 1st package. Then I'd trade Allen to Charlotte for Grant Williams/ CHO 25' 2nd/ NOP 25' 2nd. The 2nds are more important than Allen here because they'll provide to young, athletic, cost-controlled positional depth pieces.

16th pick- Yaxel Lendeborg. Budget Adebayo.
29th pick- Adou Thiero. OG Anunoby.
53rd pick- John Tonje. Devin Booker 2.0

That'd give us a roster of:

Ball/ Booker / Isaac/ Durant/ Vucevic.
Paul/ KCP/ Dunn/ Aldama/ Bidatze.
Gillespie/ Tonje/ Thiero/ Freeman/ Ighodaro.

G League development (3 two - way contracts)
1- Yaxel Lendeborg. Adebayo.
2- Donnie Freeman. Budget Durant ( 6'11).
3- ** Obinna Anochili Killen. Camara 2.0

Pretty sure the filler for the Bulls trade would be PWill and he expires in 2029. So basically like stretching Beal but you get a player for that $18m instead of nothing.

My guess, the Bulls would keep Ball and substitute Smith since he expires a year later. Bulls would get a FRP and a huge expiring. Granted with Ball and Vucevic they have expirings in 2026 so I doubt they want to push that a year later just to move off of PWill for one FRP

I like the Grayson Allen trade for Grant Williams for sure - again would the Hornets do it since Allen expires a year later.

I think they would since Williams will likely be out half of next season. Given his injury, he'll be mostly ineffective until the following season.

[King4Day]

For a Rockets trade, I would want 2 of our first back (this seasons first would be out if Houston moves to the top 4). But getting back '27 and '29 along with fillers, I think that's a real possibility.

[King4Day]

As for Beal, I don't believe Chicago would give us Williams AND Vuc AND Ball. Williams would be the main part if it meant getting off Beal. A longer bad contract for a shorter one.
Maybe they would do Beal and 2 first (Cavs) for Williams and Vuc? Otherwise, maybe remove a first, and remove Vuc.

Then if you can do KD for 2 of our picks back, and fillers, I think we'd be in a better place.

Goal this summer should be cleaning up the Beal/KD mess. Start over with a little draft control back along with getting under the 2nd apron.

[BobbieL]

.....and you just got the Suns a 25 win team. When we do not have our picks....so congrats.

We have been through this a couple times and you are a good poster who I like better than some here. That said you have no idea how to gauge value apparently. You just give away our best players for nothing. The trade you posted a week or 2 ago where you had us giving Booker to the Spurs and somehow not getting Castle or any of their best firsts is another example.

You want to start over. Cool, we get it. That does not mean you just give away everything for nothing. This trade makes 0 sense. You made the Suns worse. MUCH worse in a year that again we don't have our picks. It's stupid. That's a Wizards level roster you just made with your trade and we cannot even get a good player at the end of it.

This need to take any trade. ANY trade you see for our guys makes 0 sense. Saber put that example in front of you as bait in hopes to find common ground on something to say no on and you thumbs up it.

That trade is close to as bad as the Luka trade.

My goal is simply to try to get to 2027 with draft picks and cap space. And like I wrote, the Heat trade would not be the best trade- I get that. But whats the alternativ - running it back with Booker and Durant, who I do not think work together. I would hope the Suns could get more - truly.

But some of these trades where Durant goes to Houston and get back all three suns picks plus this player and that player, aren't happening. Why? Because, those front offices are stupid like Ishbia.

Ideally, Durant goes to Houston and they get back a couple of their own picks even if that means FVV. And I don't think FVV would actually be bad with Booker.

And no trade in NBA history was worse than the Luka trade. The reality is - sad to say, the Suns are going to be terrible for at least the next ten years, if not longer. They will not be competing for NBA Titles. They barely will be competing for the play-in game. Ishbia so totally bleeped this up - worse than Sarver did by a long shot. As they don't have a future.

on the bright side of things you don’t know **** miss Cleo.

Let me see what happens but mat ishbia tore down a franchise in six months that took years to get back too. And this will be even longer to build back unless he delegates and it patient

[Saberestar]

Marc Stein:

League sources say Ishbia could elect to bring in a new top executive before hiring a coach.

Johnny Bryant and Royal Ivey are names to monitor for HC role.

Another variable to monitor here: Suns lead executive James Jones is working on an expiring contract that only runs through June. Ishbia was non-committal Thursday during his end-of-season news conference about Jones remaining in that role; league sources say Ishbia could elect to bring in a new top executive before hiring a coach.

Cavaliers associate head coach Johnnie Bryant
and Rockets assistant coach Royal Ivey are two
more names to monitor, league sources say.

Ivey began establishing himself as an NBA head
coaching candidate by steering South Sudan's
national team into last summer's Paris Olympics and presumably would have an even stronger connectior to this job if the Suns decide not to trade Ivey's close friend and former college teammate Kevin Durant.

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/s/rIybxFI13m

Royal Ivey LETSSSSS GOOO!