ImageImageImage

The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#701 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 12:58 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
But that is still drastically underseelling Booker's value in a Houston trade man! At minimum, it should be some combination of 2-3 young athletic core players AND the 3 1sts back! Maybe only two 1sts IF the 25' Houston pick jumps into the top 3. Not getting back Ameeen Thompson or Sengun is understandable. But Booker's current consensus value is around 2-3 promising, exciting, young, athletic, high potential talents, and 3-4 quality 1sts (at least two solid lottery of the 4). Don't let anyone mislead or convince you that it's less.

Suree the picks are very important, but the pick swaps that Jones imbecilically gave away like freakin "Oprah on her talk shows" make it eextraordinarily difficult if not nearly impossible to initiate a proper rebuild in even years, as multiple other teams hold control over our picks. UNLESS we do one of two things:

1- We accumulate young talent/ fillers (trade assets) towards either acquiring other teams' picks for the 26' and 28' draft??? This is still difficult as we'd have to try and accurately project a team's likelihood of collapse, resulting in a premium pick outcome. But if Ishbia hires the right legitimate GM and front office personnel, we should be able to do it. Also, pouring money into the acquisition of top-tier scouts and actual talent consultants. In successfully utilizing this strategy, we'll not only sidestep the poorer " least of" late firsts by drafting from the other teams' acquired premium 1sts, but those late "Least of" 1sts can be used to target supplementary depth or utility pieces.

2- We make sure we actually do get some combination of young, athletic core players on cost-controlled contracts to build out our roster around Booker and then utilize the accumulated cap space from the KD trade, etc to add higher value free agents now and espeecially in 2027. Or possibly even trading some of those acquired pieces for key players/other draft assets (for even years, to offset those pick swaps while additionally working towards being more competitive in the process?? :D



I think the trade above getting Dillon Brooks plus the other players/picks was the best option for Durant

With Durant - they probably don't need Brooks
With Eason, they probably can move on from Smith
Two first round picks
But there needs to be more money so probably Jock L and somebody like Whitmore

I am not the biggest fan of Brooks but I think he would be that player next to Booker, like Crowder, - who is the tough guy, instigator type player.


Agreed! I do like Brooks as an agitator to give us an "edge" that we've sorely lacked for a long time now! And although I'm still on the J Green train, and would take him back as a centerpiece salary inclusion, because I do think he'll absolutely break out and become a star player soon. Even if people don't prefer him, He'd still give us a desirable large salary trade piece to flip elsewhere for other players. Maybe J Green/ 2 CLE 1sts to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson. Or perhaps to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ DEN 25' 1st (25)/ ORL 26' 2nd. :nod:

I'd prefer Green just to move him to a third team but I also wouldn't mind Brooks. I'm pretty low on Green and I think he's kind of a rich man's Jordan Clarkson. He's still young and could still break out as you mentioned but I don't really like how he plays. I don't value him that highly but another team might and I'd rather get back decent assets than retain Green on our team. That said neither of the trades you proposed are that exciting but I guess I prefer the second because of the draft capital and I also kinda like Anthony but less so Isaac. I love CamJo but it's crazy to think he's only been in the league like 6 years and he'll be 30 next season :o I'm not that keen to trade a young talent in Green for a guy turning 30 in March next year.
dremill24
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,956
And1: 3,239
Joined: Jan 11, 2016
Contact:

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#702 » by dremill24 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:03 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
BobbieL wrote:

I think the trade above getting Dillon Brooks plus the other players/picks was the best option for Durant

With Durant - they probably don't need Brooks
With Eason, they probably can move on from Smith
Two first round picks
But there needs to be more money so probably Jock L and somebody like Whitmore

I am not the biggest fan of Brooks but I think he would be that player next to Booker, like Crowder, - who is the tough guy, instigator type player.


Agreed! I do like Brooks as an agitator to give us an "edge" that we've sorely lacked for a long time now! And although I'm still on the J Green train, and would take him back as a centerpiece salary inclusion, because I do think he'll absolutely break out and become a star player soon. Even if people don't prefer him, He'd still give us a desirable large salary trade piece to flip elsewhere for other players. Maybe J Green/ 2 CLE 1sts to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson. Or perhaps to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ DEN 25' 1st (25)/ ORL 26' 2nd. :nod:

I'd prefer Green just to move him to a third team but I also wouldn't mind Brooks. I'm pretty low on Green and I think he's kind of a rich man's Jordan Clarkson. He's still young and could still break out as you mentioned but I don't really like how he plays. I don't value him that highly but another team might and I'd rather get back decent assets than retain Green on our team. That said neither of the trades you proposed are that exciting but I guess I prefer the second because of the draft capital and I also kinda like Anthony but less so Isaac. I love CamJo but it's crazy to think he's only been in the league like 6 years and he'll be 30 next season :o I'm not that keen to trade a young talent in Green for a guy turning 30 in March next year.


I've been thinking (if he's involved in something) Green could be rerouted for like a Walker Kessler or maybe even a Dereck Lively. He's polarizing tho.
Trying out this Substack thing. Suns and NBA thoughts. Check it out: https://hoopsnexus.substack.com/
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#703 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:15 am

dremill24 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Agreed! I do like Brooks as an agitator to give us an "edge" that we've sorely lacked for a long time now! And although I'm still on the J Green train, and would take him back as a centerpiece salary inclusion, because I do think he'll absolutely break out and become a star player soon. Even if people don't prefer him, He'd still give us a desirable large salary trade piece to flip elsewhere for other players. Maybe J Green/ 2 CLE 1sts to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson. Or perhaps to Orlando for Isaac/ Anthony/ DEN 25' 1st (25)/ ORL 26' 2nd. :nod:

I'd prefer Green just to move him to a third team but I also wouldn't mind Brooks. I'm pretty low on Green and I think he's kind of a rich man's Jordan Clarkson. He's still young and could still break out as you mentioned but I don't really like how he plays. I don't value him that highly but another team might and I'd rather get back decent assets than retain Green on our team. That said neither of the trades you proposed are that exciting but I guess I prefer the second because of the draft capital and I also kinda like Anthony but less so Isaac. I love CamJo but it's crazy to think he's only been in the league like 6 years and he'll be 30 next season :o I'm not that keen to trade a young talent in Green for a guy turning 30 in March next year.


I've been thinking (if he's involved in something) Green could be rerouted for like a Walker Kessler or maybe even a Dereck Lively. He's polarizing tho.

Imagine Jordan Clarkson and Rich Man's Jordan Clarkson on the same team. They'd have an 80% share of FGA lol

I don't really know what kind of value Green actually has. My feeling is until he shows he can be efficient, teams just aren't going to value him highly enough to give up real value. He's also getting paid $33-36m for the next 3 seasons so his salary may also be a hindrance in potential trades.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,517
And1: 9,152
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#704 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:22 am

Read on Twitter
Image
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,614
And1: 14,883
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#705 » by Qwigglez » Tue Apr 22, 2025 2:19 am

A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.
User avatar
Mr Puddles
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,578
And1: 14,649
Joined: Jan 17, 2015
Location: Under your bed
 

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#706 » by Mr Puddles » Tue Apr 22, 2025 2:28 am

Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.


Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#707 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 2:48 am

Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.

Knicks are a bit of a tough trade partner. A lot of salary is tied to guys I don't think they are ready to move on from like KAT, Bridges and of course Brunson. And I don't really want OG at $40m+.
dremill24
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,956
And1: 3,239
Joined: Jan 11, 2016
Contact:

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#708 » by dremill24 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 3:02 am

Are we headed to Ja? :lol: I certainly wouldnt but I could see Bartlestein trying to swing a KD/Ja/OG 3-way with whatever other pieces shuffling around.
Trying out this Substack thing. Suns and NBA thoughts. Check it out: https://hoopsnexus.substack.com/
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,517
And1: 9,152
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#709 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 22, 2025 3:32 am

dremill24 wrote:Are we headed to Ja? :lol: I certainly wouldnt but I could see Bartlestein trying to swing a KD/Ja/OG 3-way with whatever other pieces shuffling around.


Well at least here his whole gun thing might fit more with it being the wild west and all. But someone will have to tell him to switch to a quickdraw 6 shooter type motion. :tooth
Image
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,517
And1: 9,152
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#710 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:10 am

Read on Twitter
Image
Slim Charless
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 7,441
Joined: May 10, 2019
   

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#711 » by Slim Charless » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:17 am

Mr Puddles wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.


Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.


Miami is a big one too
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,517
And1: 9,152
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#712 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:20 am

By the way, having the 29th and 52nd pick, we could still acquire some very impactful talent!

But what we really need is for one of Yaxel Lendeborg, Carter Bryant, or Will Riley fall to 29. Because (and you can check me on this statement, just research these names for yourself) :
Yaxel Lendeborg- Budget Adebayo.
Carter Bryant- a more athletic PJ Washington.
Will Riley is Cam Johnson 2.0 (identical
archetype).

Now if none of those guys fall to 29, we need to aggressively target Adou Thiero early at 29, because he's almost identical in every way to OG Anunoby. And at 52, we need to target John Tonje because he's incredibly versatile and insanely efficient! And plays almost identical to Devin Booker as a 6'6 235 lb guard.

From the undrafted range, we ABSOLUTELY MUST sign OBINNA ANUCHILI KILLEN. He's toumani camara 2.0. and his floor is a more athletic/ fluid Dorian Finney Smith ( 6'8). Alternatively we could consider Maxime Raynaud who's basically Pau Gasol 2.0 or Rocco Zisarky who at 7'3 is a Gobert archetype. :nod:
Image
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,517
And1: 9,152
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#713 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:25 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.


Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.


Miami is a big one too


They just landed the 20th pick from Golden state giving them the 20th pick overall. But in a KD trade, I'd also want their 26' unprotected. So perhaps instead of grabbing their 20th pick in this draft, I'd take these picks. MIA 26' unprotected 1st/ MIA 28' top 5 protected 1st??
Image
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,614
And1: 14,883
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#714 » by Qwigglez » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:30 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.


Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.


Miami is a big one too


No way. I think Suns front office may hold a grudge since they traded Jimmy to the Warriors. Personally, I wouldn't make a deal with them unless they took Beal. Wiggins and Rozier for Beal, but no way Suns trade KD for anything else they got IMO.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,614
And1: 14,883
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#715 » by Qwigglez » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:39 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.

Knicks are a bit of a tough trade partner. A lot of salary is tied to guys I don't think they are ready to move on from like KAT, Bridges and of course Brunson. And I don't really want OG at $40m+.

I agree to an extent. I don't think they are ready to move on quite yet from Bridges. However, if they get bounced in the 1st round I could see them not wanting to give Bridges a max extension.

I heard the Suns could get under the 2nd apron this summer, so I'm not sure if this is a viable deal trade or not but maybe something like...
KD for Bridges, Hart, Robinson. So the Knicks would still have Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and then KD.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#716 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:48 am

Qwigglez wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.


Miami is a big one too


No way. I think Suns front office may hold a grudge since they traded Jimmy to the Warriors. Personally, I wouldn't make a deal with them unless they took Beal. Wiggins and Rozier for Beal, but no way Suns trade KD for anything else they got IMO.

Miami has picks which makes them interesting. Outside of one pick to Charlotte between 2027 or 2028, they have all their FRP's, and this year they have #20. From a player perspective, Rozier will be an expiring contract and Wiggins has one more year after next season at just over $30m. So within two seasons we would've dropped about $56m worth of salary and if we could get back a bunch of picks from Miami, I think it's worthwhile. Ideally we also get one of their young guys too.

Houston and Miami are two teams that are uniquely positioned as they are both teams that could use a KD but unlike other competitive teams that could also use KD (e.g NY, Denver, Minny, Dallas etc) they still own a decent number of future picks. Houston has all of theirs and all of ours and Miami only has one one outgoing pick.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#717 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:57 am

Qwigglez wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:A bit mad that Portland didn't tank like I wanted them to. Now Flagg is definitely going to Utah.

Oh, I feel like Suns may get a bidding war for KD if Knicks and Rockets both end up getting booted in the 1st round.

Knicks are a bit of a tough trade partner. A lot of salary is tied to guys I don't think they are ready to move on from like KAT, Bridges and of course Brunson. And I don't really want OG at $40m+.

I agree to an extent. I don't think they are ready to move on quite yet from Bridges. However, if they get bounced in the 1st round I could see them not wanting to give Bridges a max extension.

I heard the Suns could get under the 2nd apron this summer, so I'm not sure if this is a viable deal trade or not but maybe something like...
KD for Bridges, Hart, Robinson. So the Knicks would still have Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and then KD.

Not sure what they'll do with Bridges but he's been great for them this year and they gave up A LOT to get him

Quick reminder:
Nets receive:
Bojan Bogdanovic
Mamadi Diakite
Shake Milton
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2025
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2027
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2029
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2031
unprotected pick swap in 2028
top-four protected 2025 1st-round pick via Bucks
2nd round pick in 2025


This is also a big reason why I don't see NY as being a great trade partner. Not only do they not have the players or contracts I find attractive (other than Mikal) but they also don't have the draft capital to make it worth our while.

NOW if they are looking for another scoring option without giving up much.....we have a Beal to sell them.
Slim Charless
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 7,441
Joined: May 10, 2019
   

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#718 » by Slim Charless » Tue Apr 22, 2025 5:02 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
Knicks and Rockets getting booted is the best possible outcome. It also adds Detroit as a dark horse for going after KD, they might feel like they're a KD level scorer away from competiting next year if they make it out of the first round. Also, Miami putting up a competitive series should add them in the mix as well. Dallas should already have KD on their radar, and anything short of winning a championship will put Denver in the mix too.

All these teams have interesting assets available.


Miami is a big one too


They just landed the 20th pick from Golden state giving them the 20th pick overall. But in a KD trade, I'd also want their 26' unprotected. So perhaps instead of grabbing their 20th pick in this draft, I'd take these picks. MIA 26' unprotected 1st/ MIA 28' top 5 protected 1st??
lilfishi22 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Miami is a big one too


No way. I think Suns front office may hold a grudge since they traded Jimmy to the Warriors. Personally, I wouldn't make a deal with them unless they took Beal. Wiggins and Rozier for Beal, but no way Suns trade KD for anything else they got IMO.

Miami has picks which makes them interesting. Outside of one pick to Charlotte between 2027 or 2028, they have all their FRP's, and this year they have #20. From a player perspective, Rozier will be an expiring contract and Wiggins has one more year after next season at just over $30m. So within two seasons we would've dropped about $56m worth of salary and if we could get back a bunch of picks from Miami, I think it's worthwhile. Ideally we also get one of their young guys too.

Houston and Miami are two teams that are uniquely positioned as they are both teams that could use a KD but unlike other competitive teams that could also use KD (e.g NY, Denver, Minny, Dallas etc) they still own a decent number of future picks. Houston has all of theirs and all of ours and Miami only has one one outgoing pick.


If we can get them to put in Ware, then I'm fine with just 1 pick.

Wiggins
Rozier/Robinson
Warehouse
#20

Is a fine deal to me. If Ware is off the table then we need to get Jovic. Miami has great scouting and I want 1 of their homegrown guys. This goes double if manage to hire Quinn as he'll input Spos system and will utilize these guys in the same way.
Slim Charless
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 7,441
Joined: May 10, 2019
   

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#719 » by Slim Charless » Tue Apr 22, 2025 5:04 am

Also, I wouldn't mind re-routing small stuff to NOP for Zion. Ishbia wants stars and I can see him taking a shot on Zion.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,526
And1: 24,877
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#720 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 22, 2025 5:10 am

Slim Charless wrote:Also, I wouldn't mind re-routing small stuff to NOP for Zion. Ishbia wants stars and I can see him taking a shot on Zion.

what do you mean small stuff?

Return to Phoenix Suns