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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#821 » by bwgood77 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:28 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


This trade is very solid!! I'd take this and be fairly happy with it honestly. Not as good as the OKC trade with Hartenstein/ Dort/ Wallace/ 2 firsts. But still very solid value for KD.

The trade:



That is a very good package. I'm not much of a fan of Robinson or Rozier, but they both can play, possibly have trade value, and to get Ware and two firsts would be awesome.

Man, we really setting our bar low for what we can get in return for KD. Wild.


What are people really expecting? If we can get a solid prospect and two firsts, that is solid. I don't know how people can expect we get that much for a guy that will be 37 next season and is expiring and could leave next offseason for free. How many picks/prospects do you think a team will be willing to give up?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#822 » by bwgood77 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:32 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
It seems sometimes people view unprotected as a bigger deal than it should be. Now it is a big deal, but a team like Miami is unlikely to be one of the worst, and even if they were, and it was protected, it would likely role over to the next year with less protection. Few teams trade unprotected picks that willingly other than us.

I have seen plenty of unprotected picks going here and there on multiple occasions in the last few years. Every All-Star player gets some unprotected pick.


The Knicks crazy trade for Mikal comes to mind.


True but unprotected pick from a young stacked team probably don't matter too much if they are protected. But they did give up way too much. But apparently other teams like Memphis were prepared to offer a bunch of picks for him.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#823 » by bwgood77 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:33 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Ok fellas. I cracked it. I know how we get out of this:

We trade our roster to Milwaukee. Milwaukee trades its roster to new Orleans. New Orleans sends its roster to Phoenix.

Thoughts?


For sure. I am not sure there are any rosters I wouldn't take for ours, if it includes picks they own/etc. But of course I'd do that even without picks.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#824 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:38 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
sunsfan1o1 wrote:This has to be the worst mock trade I’ve seen.
We’re talking about Kevin Durant. You’re ok with taking their trash and 1 protected pick and a late first rounder? Just keep Durant.

This.

That trade proposal is one of the worse that I have seen lately.

All the Houston trades and Spurs trades that I have seen are better than this one. Ware isn't a sure thing at all. There are sure things like Castle and in that case you get whatever and him...but in this case you basically only 1 FRP (and not unprotected) and garbage that probably will be out of the league soon (Rozier).


You're not gonna get Castle unless you give up Booker. Getting Ware and 2FRPs is a fine deal. Ware is a legit option at the 5. Rozier can play PG for us for a year while we draft PGOTF this year.

I'd take that deal and definitely hope to hire Quinn.


This! ....LOL.

The Rockets trade is contextually only slightly better than this because of the cumulative players portion of the package and by virtue of getting two of our picks back.

The Spurs trade would completely depend upon the specifics of the 3 picks, because although Sochan is a solid defender, he can't shoot at all, so his skillset is fairly limited. And Johnson is not good. And then Barnes is basically a 20 million expiring.

Good for potential cap flexibility, but there's really no exciting or athletic young talent, and only one solid defender who can't shoot at all. The specifics of the picks will make or break this trade's value.

He's taken a step back in production and is an overpaid offensive version of Okogie or maybe a slightly more physical O'neale. Ultimately a pointless redundant version of what we already have in those two players I just mentioned.

Now this trade is very solid because of the inclusion of Ware! But in addition to that maybe people aren't really aware, but cumulatively, Rozier and Robinson represent upwards of $48 million in cap flexibility to make moves, add key pieces, take back more money in trades (once they come off the books or get bought out)??

And those two picks could be attached to players in other trades for a player like Zion or Cam Johnson or another consideration? And Ware for those who know about him, could easily become our franchise center of the future.

This would allow us to then more easily trade Richards for more assets to some team, or attach him to Allen and trade for Bidatze/ filler/ draft pick ( from Orlando)?? Or really any number of other trades possibly.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#825 » by wheezy » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:12 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Ok fellas. I cracked it. I know how we get out of this:

We trade our roster to Milwaukee. Milwaukee trades its roster to new Orleans. New Orleans sends its roster to Phoenix.

Thoughts?

If we get Frenchmen St in the trade as well, then I say yes.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#826 » by BobbieL » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:13 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


This trade is very solid!! I'd take this and be fairly happy with it honestly. Not as good as the OKC trade with Hartenstein/ Dort/ Wallace/ 2 firsts. But still very solid value for KD.

The trade:



That is a very good package. I'm not much of a fan of Robinson or Rozier, but they both can play, possibly have trade value, and to get Ware and two firsts would be awesome.

Man, we really setting our bar low for what we can get in return for KD. Wild.


I think its a reality bar
If you are comparing to what Ishbia paid -- that was such a total overpayment - it skews the return
He is 37 year olds, one year left on his contract -- so of course teams are not going to overpay

I am good with the Miami trade - still hoping for Houston
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#827 » by BobbieL » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:48 pm

Is the feeling mutual though? My guess Gambo will shoot this down - but we shall see

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#828 » by dremill24 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:51 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Yes! Short of equitable value which should be obvious to most! So what if Sheppard was a top 5 pick, he hasn't shown much of anything during his time in the league so far, he's averaged what again? 4 points 1 rebound, 1 assist on 35% FG/ 33% 3 PT shooting, and had a 1.7 BPM and a 0.1 VORP.

By that logic that he has value because virtue of the fact that he's a # 3 pick, James Wiseman was a #2 pick, Patrick Williams was # 4, should we trade KD forva package with those players by virtue of pick range?


Johnny Davis was a top 10 lottery pick, Jalil Okafor a # 3 pick too, Alex Len was a top 5 pick, Dragan Bender a top 4 pick, Would you accept any of them as a quality value pieces by virtue of their draft range in a KD trade? you get the picture....right??


Throughout NBA history we've had countless high picks that never really turned out to contribute much, offered any measurable impact, or flat out busted and are out of the league already! Pick range does not substantiate value. Hence the popular phrase " The draft is a crapshoot"!!!

Sheppard was brought in to do one thing, SHOOT! AND SCORE!! and he can't even do that or hasn't shown that yet? His value is at best a 10 million salary filler not a positive value asset, maybe a neutral currently??


Landale is an end of bench big who couldn't score or do much of anything in out last game against them, and a pick swap!............really??


Which team do people really think will be worse down the road, rockets already a top 2 team with an elite defense, and now adding KD, or us giving up KD, only having Booker and some young pieces when we couldn't even make the play in with our big three.

Now we're giving up the best player in the trade and losing not only a HOF elite level impact player, but almost triple double efficiency and the gravity he commanded to keep double and triple teams off of Booker most nights. Who exactly do we pick up that's really going to help replace that output/ impact??

So giving up a pick swap would obviously only return value back to Houston in getting a very likely better pick than whatever there's would be in that swap year. That swap then reduces the overall return value of that KD trade.


Why should Houston get a " best of pick outcome (swap) when we're the team giving up the best asset in the deal and obviously going to get worse in the immediate future by virtue of lost production/ impact?

Which of course would benefit Houston greatly with that swap? Did we learn nothing yet about the potential damage of pick swaps given our current outcome ??Surely upon further reflection you and those that agreed with you here can see this right?? The only real value we're actually getting here would be D Brooks as a defensive agitator, Smith Jr as a young floor spacing 3 & D forward and the 2 picks.

But a pick swap basically returns that value of one of those picks by virtue of us obviously being much worse than a top 2 playoff team adding KD in the coming years, so they'd get the much higher pick!

And Sheppard is so far just unrealized potential on very disappointing production and efficiency that may or MAY NOT ever pan out??? We HAVE TO nail every move from here on out to avoid a very long painful rebuild sooner rather than later!

This trade falls short of equitable value. Take out the pick swap altogether and switch Sheppard with Eason or Whitmore and then it's solid and equitable for sure by comparison. :dontknow:


Im not going to get sucked into a long, drawn out thing here. But I do have to say that you have the swap thing completely wrong to the point that I dont even understand how you would get there. Also think you're underselling Sheppard and the picks, but thats just subjective.


That's cool. It's actually very simple:

1- Reed Sheppard.
I've already provided his abysmal stats and efficiency. But if you need proof, here you go!
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sheppre01.html

Not really sure how anyone can justify a top 3 pick making 10 million and only putting up 4 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist and shooting 35% FG and only 33% from three is good value. And honestly it's kind of wild to claim I'm underselling him given those conditions. A top 5 pick only scoring single digit points on horrible efficiency. How exactly am I underselling him again?....LOL.

And what's your logic for me being completely wrong on the pick swap?? Who's the worse team currently? And who's more likely to still be the worse team in the next 3-4 years? A 2nd seed high playoff team with tons of assets and an exciting young core that would be entering their prime and with a great coach and front office?

Or a team with a dysfunctional front office, delusional owner, mismatched underachieving roster that can't even make the play in, has almost no assets or picks for the next half decade, and has maybe one legit star after this trade ( Booker) and that singular option will be 32 by 29 if not already off the team as we start our rebuild.

So which team do you HONESTLY believe will get the better value pick in that swap??


This goes against my better judgement but...

You have the swap backwards. If Houston is trading away a swap, it means they are giving their trade partner (Suns) the right to swap their pick with the one specified & owned by Houston IF that swap is advantageous for the partner when the draft order is determined.

In a simple scenario, lets assume both Houston and Phoenix own just their own 2027 1sts (this is not reality). If Houston trades away swap rights, then that means the Suns have the right to give their own '27 1st to Houston and take Houston's '27 1st IF Houston's pick is better. The fact that Houston will likely be better than Phoenix at that point means there is pretty limited upside to those swap rights, but you're treating the scenario like the Suns are the ones obligated to swap their pick with Houston no matter what and that it somehow nets out to one less pick received in the package with the two other picks.

Reality is even more complicated with the actual picks owned by each team. Im not sure if it was considered in the hypothetical by PHNX, but the simplest of many complicated scenarios would be to work off the years where the Suns own outright rights to a pick (not swaps): 2027 and 2029. If we choose, say, 2029, the Suns own the least favorable of Utah, Cleveland, or Minnesota. In this case, Houston would give Phoenix the right to swap that pick with Houston's 2029 pick, if it would benefit Phoenix to do so once we know draft order.

So again, while limited in its upside based on the teams involved, the worst it can be is a wash, and not whatever net negative you're assigning to it.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#829 » by Slim Charless » Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:57 pm

BobbieL wrote:Is the feeling mutual though? My guess Gambo will shoot this down - but we shall see

Read on Twitter


That'd be freaking amazing. Hopefully Marc Stein still has connections. I'd feel better about this if Shams or Chris Haynes had reported it....
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#830 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:22 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I have seen plenty of unprotected picks going here and there on multiple occasions in the last few years. Every All-Star player gets some unprotected pick.


The Knicks crazy trade for Mikal comes to mind.


True but unprotected pick from a young stacked team probably don't matter too much if they are protected. But they did give up way too much. But apparently other teams like Memphis were prepared to offer a bunch of picks for him.


This does make me curious about Memphis as a potential KD destination, even if only as a rental option? Given their recent turmoil and apparent soon to be postseason collapse, I'd wager they might fall into the desperate category of being a dark horse option for KD??

But if this is even possible, what should we look for in return??

Could they put something together around Clarke/ Konchar/ Edey/ GG Jackson/ Wells/ 3 1sts? Or would it need to become a 3 team trade?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#831 » by Saberestar » Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:23 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
It seems sometimes people view unprotected as a bigger deal than it should be. Now it is a big deal, but a team like Miami is unlikely to be one of the worst, and even if they were, and it was protected, it would likely role over to the next year with less protection. Few teams trade unprotected picks that willingly other than us.

I have seen plenty of unprotected picks going here and there on multiple occasions in the last few years. Every All-Star player gets some unprotected pick.


The Knicks crazy trade for Mikal comes to mind.

Yeah, and we are talking about just a good role player.

KD is an All-Star starter averaging 27/6/4. The team that trades for him will get him for 3 years (he will sign a 2-year extension with them).

We need to get a premier player or some unprotected picks. There are gonna be very good offers.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#832 » by Saberestar » Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:27 pm

BobbieL wrote:Is the feeling mutual though? My guess Gambo will shoot this down - but we shall see

Read on Twitter

If Mat Ishbia can sign him...WOW.

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#833 » by Rebound Mound » Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:27 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
That is a very good package. I'm not much of a fan of Robinson or Rozier, but they both can play, possibly have trade value, and to get Ware and two firsts would be awesome.

Man, we really setting our bar low for what we can get in return for KD. Wild.


What are people really expecting? If we can get a solid prospect and two firsts, that is solid. I don't know how people can expect we get that much for a guy that will be 37 next season and is expiring and could leave next offseason for free. How many picks/prospects do you think a team will be willing to give up?


Exactly.
It is not the same now than when we signed him two years ago, although I would say he has scored more and defended more than when he played for the Nets.

Ware is a very solid player who, at 7-1 and shooting from deep, could be a very nice centre for years.
Then we would need to get a solid PF for Beal+ONeale+Allen+FA.
Or transform Duncan Robinson and Rozier's expiring contract into a good PF.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#834 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:06 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Short of equitable value? The Rockets trade will get us 2 FRP and a swap plus Jabari/Reed and salary filler. Reed was the #3 pick so that's virtually a 3rd FRP. I think that's a very solid trade


Yeah I can only see the four deals in the graphic but the Rockets and Thunder ideas, in particular, are QUITE generous to the Suns lol


I'll agree that ( depending upon the picks specificity) the OKC trade is solid value. But the Houston trade is still short! Because...........

1- Reed Sheppard in his 1st season hasn't really shown anything in his first season. He's averaged around 4 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 35% FG shooting and 33% from three with a -1.7 BPM and a 0.7 VORP. and on a 10 million dollar contract for that production and efficiency as only a 6'2 player in a height, athleticism, physicality dominated league. His value is neutral at best as a salary currently.

2- Jock Landale. Is an end of bench garbage time big that although has good efficiency, hasn't done much of anything to prove he's more than an end of bench big equivalent to maybe Plumlees' current value, although younger and can occasionally shoot. He's basically an $8 million dollar near neutral filler.

3- Pick swap premise. This is really just surrendered value back to Houston! I mean common sense assessment here, which team do you really think will be worse in the coming years? Houston a top 2 playoff team with elite defense that just added KD and will obviously get better.

Or us who are giving up our best impact player, 27 points per game, and a player who's gravity was key for keeping double and triple teams off Booker. What player are we really going to add in the next couple of years that'll actually replace that impact?

Were currently not even a playoff team. We're a low key lottery team that has just given up its top impact/ production player, and obviously going to get much worse before we get better!

So we'd be giving Houston back a likely top 10-14 ( at worst) lottery pick in a swap?? And their pick would likely be in the mid to late 20s at best. That's like just giving back one of our two firsts in the deal.

We really have to break this mentality that it's acceptable to give up unnecessary value in trades. Especially when we're clearly giving up the best asset in the deal and helping the other team improve while we take a step back.


Basically, this trade becomes D Brooks/ J Smith Jr/ two salary fillers/ 1 1st ( by virtue of returning a lottery pick to Houston with the swap) reducing the cumulative value of the picks value aspect of the package. Does that really seem generous now??

It's funny how you down you are on Reed after just one season yet bring up random late 2nd draft prospects nobody has ever heard of and make comps as if they are second coming of some very good NBA players. Reed might not have been super high on my draft board last year but he's at worst a late lotto pick in most drafts.

Jock is filler. Yes. I expect in most KD trades, there will be at least one player who will be salary filler.

Why would there be a pick swap where we give up the better pick lol?

On the virtue of these 4 trades, only the Spurs deal has more than 2 FRPs on offer and in that trade the best player coming back is Sochan who I like but I probably would prefer Jabari/Reed over him. I think both OKC and Houston are solid.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#835 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:19 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
Yeah I can only see the four deals in the graphic but the Rockets and Thunder ideas, in particular, are QUITE generous to the Suns lol


I'll agree that ( depending upon the picks specificity) the OKC trade is solid value. But the Houston trade is still short! Because...........

1- Reed Sheppard in his 1st season hasn't really shown anything in his first season. He's averaged around 4 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist on 35% FG shooting and 33% from three with a -1.7 BPM and a 0.7 VORP. and on a 10 million dollar contract for that production and efficiency as only a 6'2 player in a height, athleticism, physicality dominated league. His value is neutral at best as a salary currently.

2- Jock Landale. Is an end of bench garbage time big that although has good efficiency, hasn't done much of anything to prove he's more than an end of bench big equivalent to maybe Plumlees' current value, although younger and can occasionally shoot. He's basically an $8 million dollar near neutral filler.

3- Pick swap premise. This is really just surrendered value back to Houston! I mean common sense assessment here, which team do you really think will be worse in the coming years? Houston a top 2 playoff team with elite defense that just added KD and will obviously get better.

Or us who are giving up our best impact player, 27 points per game, and a player who's gravity was key for keeping double and triple teams off Booker. What player are we really going to add in the next couple of years that'll actually replace that impact?

Were currently not even a playoff team. We're a low key lottery team that has just given up its top impact/ production player, and obviously going to get much worse before we get better!

So we'd be giving Houston back a likely top 10-14 ( at worst) lottery pick in a swap?? And their pick would likely be in the mid to late 20s at best. That's like just giving back one of our two firsts in the deal.

We really have to break this mentality that it's acceptable to give up unnecessary value in trades. Especially when we're clearly giving up the best asset in the deal and helping the other team improve while we take a step back.


Basically, this trade becomes D Brooks/ J Smith Jr/ two salary fillers/ 1 1st ( by virtue of returning a lottery pick to Houston with the swap) reducing the cumulative value of the picks value aspect of the package. Does that really seem generous now??


There might be a point that the Suns cannot overplay their hand with Durant. A good solid B is better than a team walking away leaving the Suns with a worse option. The Suns overpaid for Durant -- so can't expect to get close to that value back at this point. Granted, depending on the playoffs - his value might go up. But today, I think the above Houston and SA trades are good value.

Extremely reasonable take
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#836 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:24 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Rebound Mound wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Of the higher dollar players have seen floated
KAT
Markkanen
Zion

I would probably pick Zion of those three for the reasons you mention. High reward. And since Mattyish likes to make a statement - he makes sense

I don't see Mat ever wanting to take a longer approach - more like "make a splash" and go year by year



My goodness, noooo...
Markannen is also a superb athlete. He is 7-0 and can play SF and PF and defend most Cs without trouble. Shoots from three, from two, moves well without the ball... and he is coachable, listen to coaches, never caused a problem, focused, young... big difference there.
Zion could have a higher cealing IFFFFF... if he decides somehow to go for it. I just see Zion playing at the level he is supposed to if he has a role model in the locker room who leads by example and also has the aura to be an example. Lebron, Kobe back then... cannot think of any other player right now with the combination of desire, physical abilities, influence, basketball level...


The amount needed to get Lauri will be much more than Zion.

The only reason that you guys keep seeing me talk about him is cause the asking price will be small. Pels are gonna give him away IMO. Dealing with Ainge is gonna be a nightmare and I have 0 interest in our front office risking it with him.

Not necessarily. Lauri would also be a buy low candidate given he's turning 28, has done nothing in terms of competitive basketball for his whole NBA career, he just had a down year with worse stats almost across the board and in the first year of a pretty massive 5 year deal. He's no Zion but he hasn't been the healthiest of players either. I don't necessarily want him but thought it's worth noting that I think Utah probably isn't all that keen to keep him around.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#837 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:27 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


This trade is very solid!! I'd take this and be fairly happy with it honestly. Not as good as the OKC trade with Hartenstein/ Dort/ Wallace/ 2 firsts. But still very solid value for KD.

The trade:

Miami gets KD.

Phoenix gets Kel' El Ware/ Rozier/ Robinson/ GS 25' 1st (20th pick)/ MIA 30' 1st (top 5 protected).

I don't get how you're all giddy about this deal when it's not necessarily even better than the Houston deal? Rozier/Robinson are pure salary filler so it's just 2 so-so FRP and Ware for KD. And I like Ware a lot
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#838 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:35 pm

dremill24 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
Spoiler:


Im not going to get sucked into a long, drawn out thing here. But I do have to say that you have the swap thing completely wrong to the point that I dont even understand how you would get there. Also think you're underselling Sheppard and the picks, but thats just subjective.


That's cool. It's actually very simple:

1- Reed Sheppard.
I've already provided his abysmal stats and efficiency. But if you need proof, here you go!
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sheppre01.html

Not really sure how anyone can justify a top 3 pick making 10 million and only putting up 4 points/ 1 rebound/ 1 assist and shooting 35% FG and only 33% from three is good value. And honestly it's kind of wild to claim I'm underselling him given those conditions. A top 5 pick only scoring single digit points on horrible efficiency. How exactly am I underselling him again?....LOL.

And what's your logic for me being completely wrong on the pick swap?? Who's the worse team currently? And who's more likely to still be the worse team in the next 3-4 years? A 2nd seed high playoff team with tons of assets and an exciting young core that would be entering their prime and with a great coach and front office?

Or a team with a dysfunctional front office, delusional owner, mismatched underachieving roster that can't even make the play in, has almost no assets or picks for the next half decade, and has maybe one legit star after this trade ( Booker) and that singular option will be 32 by 29 if not already off the team as we start our rebuild.

So which team do you HONESTLY believe will get the better value pick in that swap??


This goes against my better judgement but...

You have the swap backwards. If Houston is trading away a swap, it means they are giving their trade partner (Suns) the right to swap their pick with the one specified & owned by Houston IF that swap is advantageous for the partner when the draft order is determined.

In a simple scenario, lets assume both Houston and Phoenix own just their own 2027 1sts (this is not reality). If Houston trades away swap rights, then that means the Suns have the right to give their own '27 1st to Houston and take Houston's '27 1st IF Houston's pick is better. The fact that Houston will likely be better than Phoenix at that point means there is pretty limited upside to those swap rights, but you're treating the scenario like the Suns are the ones obligated to swap their pick with Houston no matter what and that it somehow nets out to one less pick received in the package with the two other picks.

Reality is even more complicated with the actual picks owned by each team. Im not sure if it was considered in the hypothetical by PHNX, but the simplest of many complicated scenarios would be to work off the years where the Suns own outright rights to a pick (not swaps): 2027 and 2029. If we choose, say, 2029, the Suns own the least favorable of Utah, Cleveland, or Minnesota. In this case, Houston would give Phoenix the right to swap that pick with Houston's 2029 pick, if it would benefit Phoenix to do so once we know draft order.

So again, while limited in its upside based on the teams involved, the worst it can be is a wash, and not whatever net negative you're assigning to it.

Ghost is thinking a pick swap is a pick trade. It's exactly what you described, it's the RIGHT to swap picks not an obligated swap of picks no matter what
BobbieL
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#839 » by BobbieL » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:39 pm

Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Is the feeling mutual though? My guess Gambo will shoot this down - but we shall see

Read on Twitter

If Mat Ishbia can sign him...WOW.

Best GM available.


PHNX_SUNS had a pocast where they showed the track records of Jones, Myers and Bartlestein
The pro's for Bartlestein were signed Player X to a 10 day contract - like nothing
Jones had his hits and misses

Myers had his misses - but he had a helluva lot of hits

Also, I think has the cache for Ishbia to be patient!
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1 

Post#840 » by BobbieL » Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:50 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Rebound Mound wrote:

My goodness, noooo...
Markannen is also a superb athlete. He is 7-0 and can play SF and PF and defend most Cs without trouble. Shoots from three, from two, moves well without the ball... and he is coachable, listen to coaches, never caused a problem, focused, young... big difference there.
Zion could have a higher cealing IFFFFF... if he decides somehow to go for it. I just see Zion playing at the level he is supposed to if he has a role model in the locker room who leads by example and also has the aura to be an example. Lebron, Kobe back then... cannot think of any other player right now with the combination of desire, physical abilities, influence, basketball level...


The amount needed to get Lauri will be much more than Zion.

The only reason that you guys keep seeing me talk about him is cause the asking price will be small. Pels are gonna give him away IMO. Dealing with Ainge is gonna be a nightmare and I have 0 interest in our front office risking it with him.

Not necessarily. Lauri would also be a buy low candidate given he's turning 28, has done nothing in terms of competitive basketball for his whole NBA career, he just had a down year with worse stats almost across the board and in the first year of a pretty massive 5 year deal. He's no Zion but he hasn't been the healthiest of players either. I don't necessarily want him but thought it's worth noting that I think Utah probably isn't all that keen to keep him around.


Biggest reason I don't want Markkanen or Zion or KAT - the same problems will happen as too much money tied up in too few player.

Suns need to fill out the roster better around booker. GEt some picks, get some expirings to fill out roster and maybe one young talent.
I am not expecting a lot for Durant

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