Offseason 2025 Thread

[KembaWalker]

most NBA fans have a pick yourselves up by your bootstraps mentality toward small market bad teams. They've flattened the lottery and want to flatten it even more while free agency is a dead end route to team building and championship level players control the trade market with chosen few destinations, and regular everyday "star" players are held for 5 pick ransoms. pretty much impossible to "build" anything successful, you just have to take a bunch of shots wherever you can and hope it pans out and enjoy it while it lasts.

[fatlever]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

[Bassman]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

Yes, the same thing that showed up when we were in those play in games and got stomped. Strength, physicality, skill sets, depth, all necessary to go anywhere in post season.

I look at Houston and the high quantity of good young players (overall) they have drafted onto that team. They’re loaded, yet they’re likely to lose first round. Inexperience? They’re only playing an 8 man rotation, with a mix of vets, so not that so much as the savvy of a championship Warriors squad. Then we look at the Pistons who made their big turnaround…the same thing we all want for the Hornets. They trail NY but they’re competitive.

For the Hornets it’s a lot of everything still needed, especially full health. Health issues aside, depth is a big problem. Assuming we land a top 3 draft pick who is in our starting lineup, we resign Josh & Tre plus no trades, our next 5 are Mann, Green, Okogie, Grant and Diabate/Nurkic. Grant can’t be counted on so it’s Tiddy time again (yikes), Josh Green is a stiff, Tre could easily relapse since it was his back (danger zone), and Nurkic strikes zero concerns in opponents. Mo and Okogie are legit backups albeit limited in their impact. Peterson can be as happy as he wants with his little collection but I don’t see big steps forward coming from NSJ, KJ or anyone else.

Now, my last point is still about HOPE. Despite the pathetic record, this team did compete hard in most games. They’ve got fight in them, but it will take big steps up in physicality to just make the playoffs.

[Rich4114]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

100% agreed. But since LaMelo is our most skilled player we need to surround him with more physicality. Can that develop in Miller and Mark? It kind of needs to, especially with Mark because the front court is where the physicality matters the most.

You see why I keep pedaling the Zion agenda. Zion in the front court will not get out muscled by anyone. We need him to be LaMelo's meat shield.

[JMAC3]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

Really? My takeaway is that the East is actually not very good. Detroit is competitive with Cade and a bunch of journeyman who try hard. Bulls, Hawks almost the playoffs with terrible rosters.

I mean the Pistons 2nd best player is Tobias Harris, 3rd best Tim Hardaway, 4th best Schroder and 5th best Malik Beasley and they are in one possession games. 3/4 will be free agents this summer.

[fatlever]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

Really? My takeaway is that the East is actually not very good. Detroit is competitive with Cade and a bunch of journeyman who try hard. Bulls, Hawks almost the playoffs with terrible rosters.

I mean the Pistons 2nd best player is Tobias Harris, 3rd best Tim Hardaway, 4th best Schroder and 5th best Malik Beasley and they are in one possession games. 3/4 will be free agents this summer.

my point was about our lack of physicality. i guess i should have said "Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team PHYSICALLY" its not about east or west, its about physical hoops we are seeing. we are not currently equipped as a team for that level of contact. cliff ranted about this a lot. product of having lots of injuries killing weight room progress, youth and lean guys and an inferior training staff. new front office made getting more physical a priority - green, salaun, moose, okogie, taj, nurk, even kj to a degree - but thats just fringe guys. need to core to get much stronger.

tldr - melo, miller, mark, mann, nsj need to get stronger asap.

we would get bullied by almost every playoff team. we are not ready for that fight.

[JMAC3]

Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team. This year more than any year I can remember recently, maybe it's just recency bias, is the level of physicality in the playoffs. It's been a very physical playoff so far. And seeing the level of physicality makes you realize just how far away this roster is from that level of strength and aggression. There's maybe three - four guys on the roster that I would say are physically and mentally strong enough for the playoffs - miles, moose, okogie and grant... And all but miles are all fringe Rotation players. when melo Is your franchise guy, you can't have four other string beans as starters or playoff rotation guys. We really need to add functional strength, up and down the Starting lineup.

Really? My takeaway is that the East is actually not very good. Detroit is competitive with Cade and a bunch of journeyman who try hard. Bulls, Hawks almost the playoffs with terrible rosters.

I mean the Pistons 2nd best player is Tobias Harris, 3rd best Tim Hardaway, 4th best Schroder and 5th best Malik Beasley and they are in one possession games. 3/4 will be free agents this summer.

my point was about our lack of physicality. i guess i should have said "Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team PHYSICALLY" its not about east or west, its about physical hoops we are seeing. we are not currently equipped as a team for that level of contact. cliff ranted about this a lot. product of having lots of injuries killing weight room progress, youth and lean guys and an inferior training staff. new front office made getting more physical a priority - green, salaun, moose, okogie, taj, nurk, even kj to a degree - but thats just fringe guys. need to core to get much stronger.

tldr - melo, miller, mark, mann, nsj need to get stronger asap.

we would get bullied by almost every playoff team. we are not ready for that fight.

I think it is just about experience and less about actual size. Trae Young, Haliburton, Herro, Chet, Garland don't all of sudden get strong come playoff time. It is more about being competitive than bullying your opponent.

[fatlever]

you can get by with maybe one or two string beans in your playoff rotation. You can't get by with four or five. All of the string beans are going to get targeted on switches in the playoffs. You can't have four guys on the floor that are all targets.
a closing lineup of say... melo, mann, miller, miles, mark... they are getting rag-dolled.
this team needs functional strength top to bottom. It's been lacking for years. Offseason injuries (and inferior staff?) have robbed so many of our young guys from adding much needed functional strength.

[EmpireFalls]

you can get by with maybe one or two string beans in your playoff rotation. You can't get by with four or five. All of the string beans are going to get targeted on switches in the playoffs. You can't have four guys on the floor that are all targets.
a closing lineup of say... melo, mann, miller, miles, mark... they are getting rag-dolled.
this team needs functional strength top to bottom. It's been lacking for years. Offseason injuries (and inferior staff?) have robbed so many of our young guys from adding much needed functional strength.

I’m watching the physicality in this series and I genuinely think Melo and Miller wouldn’t make it two games.

[JMAC3]

Are we talking about the same Mark Williams? The guy that is 7-2, averaged the 5th most dunks per game in the league? 13th most rebounds per game?

Are there stretches he doesn't play great or games? Sure but he is 23 years old and also has games where he is dominate. I am not worried about his lack of physicality in a playoff series anymore than 20 other starting centers in the NBA.

Also, guys like LaMelo and Miller will continue to add weight as they get older that is just normal. I mean Cooper Flagg is a skinny player right now too, doesn't mean I am worried about his physicality in a playoff series long term.

If you want to add some beef to the roster than get a few role players like Detroit, Houston did etc... it is not that difficult if the team was actually dedicated to trying to fix issues. Instead we stockpile assets and wonder why the product on the court is bad, you can't win much if you aren't willing to risk much.

[Bassman]

I for one believe Mark Williams will be fine. Probably never a dominant alpha center physically, but his strength will improve. What we need (along with Melo and Miller to gain muscle and functional strength) is a powerful player at the 4. Miles is really a SF, and his physical prowess for that position is OK. That is why many long for Zion Williamson. When healthy and motivated he’s a bit of a beast, but healthy is not a common phrase associated with him.

[Braggins]

I for one believe Mark Williams will be fine. Probably never a dominant alpha center physically, but his strength will improve. What we need (along with Melo and Miller to gain muscle and functional strength) is a powerful player at the 4. Miles is really a SF, and his physical prowess for that position is OK. That is why many long for Zion Williamson. When healthy and motivated he’s a bit of a beast, but healthy is not a common phrase associated with him.

I honestly don't think Mark should be adding much weight. He needs to get stronger and might need to get a bit heavier, but they need to let it happen slowly over time. He'll get his man strength eventually. Bulking up too much will only make his injury issues worse and potentially rob him of his mobility.

[JDR720]

Are we talking about the same Mark Williams? The guy that is 7-2, averaged the 5th most dunks per game in the league? 13th most rebounds per game?

Are there stretches he doesn't play great or games? Sure but he is 23 years old and also has games where he is dominate. I am not worried about his lack of physicality in a playoff series anymore than 20 other starting centers in the NBA.

Also, guys like LaMelo and Miller will continue to add weight as they get older that is just normal. I mean Cooper Flagg is a skinny player right now too, doesn't mean I am worried about his physicality in a playoff series long term.

If you want to add some beef to the roster than get a few role players like Detroit, Houston did etc... it is not that difficult if the team was actually dedicated to trying to fix issues. Instead we stockpile assets and wonder why the product on the court is bad, you can't win much if you aren't willing to risk much.

Mark is tall, but it's pretty well known that he struggles with being physical on defense. His injuries have prevented him from gaining strength.

And it's not really weight thing, it's physicality. Diabate is a twig, yet he's still physical.

[KembaWalker]

I’ve been waiting for LaMelo to add real weight and strength for years and it hasn’t really happened. He’s incrementally better now than he was as a 19 year old rookie but he could have made this small level of progress in one offseason if he took his career seriously. Kind of a shame

[Rich4114]

Really? My takeaway is that the East is actually not very good. Detroit is competitive with Cade and a bunch of journeyman who try hard. Bulls, Hawks almost the playoffs with terrible rosters.

I mean the Pistons 2nd best player is Tobias Harris, 3rd best Tim Hardaway, 4th best Schroder and 5th best Malik Beasley and they are in one possession games. 3/4 will be free agents this summer.

my point was about our lack of physicality. i guess i should have said "Every year watching the playoffs makes you kind of realize just how far away we are as a team PHYSICALLY" its not about east or west, its about physical hoops we are seeing. we are not currently equipped as a team for that level of contact. cliff ranted about this a lot. product of having lots of injuries killing weight room progress, youth and lean guys and an inferior training staff. new front office made getting more physical a priority - green, salaun, moose, okogie, taj, nurk, even kj to a degree - but thats just fringe guys. need to core to get much stronger.

tldr - melo, miller, mark, mann, nsj need to get stronger asap.

we would get bullied by almost every playoff team. we are not ready for that fight.

I think it is just about experience and less about actual size. Trae Young, Haliburton, Herro, Chet, Garland don't all of sudden get strong come playoff time. It is more about being competitive than bullying your opponent.

I think it's fine to have one skills focused scoring guard like those guys (LaMelo) but what fats is saying, is the entire top end of our roster is basically of the same build (tall/lanky/movable) and you need guys who can be physical especially in the paint and we don't have that. That VERY much includes Mark. Mark absolutely has the length and reach but he regularly got out muscled by other bigs this entire season. I attribute that to his strength and conditioning being stunted by the back/foot injuries but if Mark is going to be the type of center we want him to be then he HAS to get stronger. More so than LaMelo does. Miller will need to as well and I think he can but he's got a ways to go himself.

Outside of that, we need a major piece in the front court who offers some size that can take contact.

[fatlever]

We saw examples all season of when the refs allowed teams to get physical with lamelo he completely wilted and it took him out of his game. We saw it twice versus Portland we saw it the first time we played Memphis those are examples just off the top of my head. That was playoff level physicality against him in those games. We already know he doesn't get the whistle in the regular season it's going to be worse than the playoffs. He's got to get stronger and he's got to get better about playing through contact.

And we saw all season long how teams bullied mark out of the paint in the first quarter of games. Mark desperately needs to add strength to his lower half.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Rich4114]

We saw examples all season of when the refs allowed teams to get physical with lamelo he completely wilted and it took him out of his game. We saw it twice versus Portland we saw it the first time we played Memphis those are examples just off the top of my head. That was playoff level physicality against him in those games. We already know he doesn't get the whistle in the regular season it's going to be worse than the playoffs. He's got to get stronger and he's got to get better about playing through contact.

And we saw all season long how teams bullied mark out of the paint in the first quarter of games. Mark desperately needs to add strength to his lower half.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

All true and points I agree with, but some of those games like Memphis were egregious where we watched about 1/8th of the physicality against players like Trae get him to the line 15 times in a game. It's an issue the NBA needs to correct because they're basically manipulating games with vastly inconsistent interpretations of the rules. Mark Cuban even called them out on it regarding these playoffs on X.

[JMAC3]

Half of these issues go away once we become competitive and we actually get a halfway decent whistle in games. Jalen Brunson isn't any stronger than LaMelo, but anytime he is touched he gets a call because the NBA actually gives a **** about him and the Knicks. Do you really think the NBA is focused on giving a good whistle to a team with 19 wins? I can let you know they don't care about that at all.

Heaven forbid Mark Williams as the 15th pick coming back from injury isn't a dominate force on both ends every single night on a team that is purposefully losing games lololol.

Blows my mind someone watches a playoff game when it is win or go home and sees players playing with intensity and the takeaway is that theHornets don't have the same energy and physicality going for their 17th win of the season in March ... well yeah no durrrr

[KembaWalker]

Hali might not be much stronger than Melo but I’m very certain that Jalen Brunson is significantly stronger than Melo in any test you could give them. Jalen Brunson has a post game and routinely posts up guys much taller than him. LaMelo probably couldn’t post up Caitlin Clark

[Rich4114]

Hali might not be much stronger than Melo but I’m very certain that Jalen Brunson is significantly stronger than Melo in any test you could give them. Jalen Brunson has a post game and routinely posts up guys much taller than him. LaMelo probably couldn’t post up Caitlin Clark

Brunson is also 5 years older than LaMelo, tbf.

But he absolutely needs to get stronger. But let's be realistic, he simply doesn't have the build to be even like his brothers. He's more of a finesse type of player, which is fine and he can be an all-star or better level player for us that way too. We just can't have a core of guys exclusively of that build because you won't out-skill every team.