Does the amount of Teams he played for hurt Lebron's legacy?

[JustBuzzin]

Does the amount of LeBron threads on the 1st page of the General Forum hurt this sites legacy?

[nate33]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

I disagree.

Lebron joins teams, gets them to mortgage their future to build enough win-now talent, wins, and then leaves the team in shambles to go repeat the same process on a new team that has already sacrificed to accumulate assets.

It's certainly a smart move that enables Lebron to have enough talent around him to compete for championships, but I think it tarnishes the value of his legacy a bit. I'm not as impressed that Lebron has so many career playoff games and so many Finals appearances because he did so by hopping onto different teams while they were at the peak of their development/compete/rebuild cycle and hopping off to miss out on the losing portion of the cycle. What Jordan, Russell and Duncan did by winning 5+ titles on the same team is more impressive.

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron played on five teams so far, four of which were superteams. That it were technically the same franchises he played before on has nothing to do with the fact that he constantly stacked the deck in his favor. A GOAT does not need to resort to that.

I think noone objects his departure from Cleveland - people were upset with him teaming up with mulitple superstars and allstars not that he left cleveland.

It was always about trying to get a better situation that his competitors - be it Kobe, Steph, Giannis. Despite his narcissistic behavior, every action speaks insecurity. We all know a MJ, Bird, Kobe, Timmy, Giannis, Joker type player would not want to join his fiercest competitors, they would fight until they beat them. That is the greatest stain on LeBrons "legacy". He did everything he could to avoid competition and when he coulndt duck them he tried to have the far superior roster around him.

That he only won 3.5 championships despite all that, being called one of the greatest ever, having all possible help from the league and the refs, when others won far more with far less, is another detail that his bubble tries to deny but its kinda obvious. 3.5 rings is still respectable and makes him a top 10-15 player all time but his attempts to paint him self as greater than Jordan are just worth a good laugh.

[ball_takes23]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Staying with one team probably helps some players more than others. The greater the player, the more staying with a bad franchise hurts your legacy though. As beloved and memorable as guys like Dirk and Hakeem are, their all time positioning is capped by only getting one or two rings while everyone above them has more after also being in better organizations. Ring culture punishes players for staying put in the wrong franchise, then hypocritical fans get mad when players move so they can be on an even playing field.

Already in this thread two people have claimed moving on from Cleveland was fine for them, he just shouldn't have gone to Miami. What sense does that even make. The whole point of moving is to get to a better roster, but any actually better roster isn't acceptable either. They know in their hearts their position is nonsensical, but are dug in.

[Stan]

This board's capacity to talk about this man is wild.

[___Rand___]

Bron's legacy is that he's played as well as he has this late in his career. He's contributed to the league's brand-building by being a clean controversy-free family man all those decades he's played. He's a one-off and that's his legacy.

[Bornstellar]

No. If anything, winning a championship with 3 different franchises/completely different teams as the best player is extremely impressive

[JujitsuFlip]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

This is so tired.

Lebron left a 61 win Cavs playoff team to join a 47 win Heat who were bounced in the 1st round and added Bosh who came from the under .500 Raptors who missed the playoffs and he had 11 career playoff games to his name.

Lebron left a 54 win Heat Finals team to join a 33 win Cavs team with Kyrie who had never made the playoffs in his career and add Love from the below .500 Wolves who also never played in the playoffs in his career.

Lebron left a 50 win Cavs Finals team to join a 35 win Lakers team. 362 days later added AD who had played a career total 13 playoff games.

What did MJ accomplish without Phil Jackson and Pippen in the NBA? I'll answer for you, nothing.

This also is nothing like KD joining the 73-9 Warriors who won a title together without him before he joined and also eliminated him a couple months before he signed in the WCF after KD was up 3-1 on them dudes.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

It's never been about the amount of teams he played for more so the who what where when why and how of it all.

No one cared he left CLE, they cared that he colluded with other stars to form a super team.

No one cared that he left MIA, but that he was leaving a top notch org and again going to a better younger situation hand picked by him

Him leaving CLE for LA and acting like it wasn't to form another super team with another colluding star was pretty distasteful.

His entire career has been about stacking the deck, creating a narrative and storyline, and then following it through with backbreaking levels of propaganda. If you're someone who sees this and dislikes it, then you might not think highly of LBJ like I don't, but if you don't care than you're like the other Witnesses in this thread.

If Mike showed us how to create a brand, LeBron showed us how to run and organize it.

You forget, Lebron initially tried to rig the teams again, in LA to form another big 3 with kawhi leonard

Kawhi Leonard turned him down and went to LAC.

It was supposed to be AD, Lebron, Kawhi

[Iwasawitness]

It's never been about the amount of teams he played for more so the who what where when why and how of it all.

No one cared he left CLE, they cared that he colluded with other stars to form a super team.

No one cared that he left MIA, but that he was leaving a top notch org and again going to a better younger situation hand picked by him

Him leaving CLE for LA and acting like it wasn't to form another super team with another colluding star was pretty distasteful.

His entire career has been about stacking the deck, creating a narrative and storyline, and then following it through with backbreaking levels of propaganda. If you're someone who sees this and dislikes it, then you might not think highly of LBJ like I don't, but if you don't care than you're like the other Witnesses in this thread.

If Mike showed us how to create a brand, LeBron showed us how to run and organize it.

I will never understand posts like this. Forming "super teams" is bad but staying on a stacked team and reaping the benefits is somehow better. LeBron "stacked the deck" but Jordan's Bulls didn't when they got Dennis Rodman for nothing. These arguments are never going to make any sense as long as they are being made based on emotion and not on logic and common sense.

[Iwasawitness]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

So was Chris Bosh in his prime when he scored 0 points in game 7 of the 2013 NBA Finals?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Why are people so obsessed with legacy?

Makes no sense to me.

Certainly not enough for it to be at the forefront of nearly every conversation.

[jbk1234]

At this point. LBJ should not care what others have to say about his *legacy.* Father time took his toll last season. That doesn't get better. He's a season away, maybe two, away from not only coming off the bench, but from coming off the bench in a very limited role.

He needs to ask himself how he wants to spend his last meaningful season (or two). He needs to be honest with himself about the ability of any team to pay him 35% of the cap and still field a contender. He's spent enough time and energy worrying about the players union and what others think.

[jazzfan1971]

I don't think changing teams helps a legacy. I just think his legacy is so strong that it has almost no impact. I don't think it can change much at this point.

[Kobe187]

no, it doesn't effect his legacy. LeBron is a top 15 player of all time and nothing changes that.

Top 10 player all time.

[zimpy27]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

I disagree.

Lebron joins teams, gets them to mortgage their future to build enough win-now talent, wins, and then leaves the team in shambles to go repeat the same process on a new team that has already sacrificed to accumulate assets.

It's certainly a smart move that enables Lebron to have enough talent around him to compete for championships, but I think it tarnishes the value of his legacy a bit. I'm not as impressed that Lebron has so many career playoff games and so many Finals appearances because he did so by hopping onto different teams while they were at the peak of their development/compete/rebuild cycle and hopping off to miss out on the losing portion of the cycle. What Jordan, Russell and Duncan did by winning 5+ titles on the same team is more impressive.

Any team with LeBron was going to go all in for rings.

Just like any contending team does and would do with an all time great. Just look at Denver.

[zimpy27]

I think it actually helps his legacy.

He's the only player in NBA history to prove that he can win in 3 completely different teams, different teammates and coaches. He led all 3 to championships and got finals MVP.

I actually think Jordans 6 with Pippen and Jackson is not telling you that Jordan was the common denominator. Rather the combination of the 3 was important and it worked well enough to repeat. Jordan teams didn't look so good without the triangle system. We can only guess if he could have won on other teams and in other systems, no proof.

KAJ also proved it like LeBron.

So let me ask you, has Lebron ever left an easier situation for a harder situation? Of course not, because why would anyone ever willingly do that? MJ winning with a pre-prime, prime and post-prime Pippen (in 1998, when he missed half the season at the age of 32 and scored 8 points in game 6 of the ‘98 finals) is way more impressive than Lebron winning with stars who were in their primes and then leaving the second they get past their primes to go team up with more stars in their primes.

Yes, leaving Heat for Cavs.

Pippen prime lined up with the 6 championships.

[oversteerdawg]

Yes and no. Some people value sticking it out with one team. However, none of the teams LeBron joined were teams that could have won a chip without him. Miami is grey area because it became a championship favorite largely due to his joining.

[Nate505]

I mean, in theory I think it does...except most people have him as either the first or second greatest player to ever play the game, so it's hard to see how it hurts it.