2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 6

[MEDIC]

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Thanks for sharing. I like this guys channel. Simple, yet effective analysis. I would be good with them taking Bryant. He is pretty much a can't miss prospect. He will be an excellent NBA role player, but probably not an allstar. He will also step in & help this roster from day 1. Having said that, if they feel another prospect has allstar level offense & at least average defense, they have to take that player.

He pretty much nails Kon K in his analysis. Describes his game perfectly.

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[WuTang_CMB]

This team was 25th in scoring. Replacing RJ with a 3 & D guy isn't helping that.

If we had a Superstar or at least a bunch of legit #2 options, we can worry about balancing with 3 & D guy, but that's not the case.

And Houston lost because they couldn't score the ball

Houston got to 7 because they relied on defense and length. Adding RJ to that squad would not have gotten them further. They won because of their bigs and Amen playing full tilt on both ends. I understand what you are trying to say but RJ isn't that guy. As I mentioned before, if he was lights out on offense and someone who could also initiate then yes that's valuable in the playoffs and for a team like ours - but that isn't him. Plus in back to back years he's shooting 60% from the line.

And they lost Game 7 because they couldn't score the ball

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

[PushDaRock]

Houston got to 7 because they relied on defense and length. Adding RJ to that squad would not have gotten them further. They won because of their bigs and Amen playing full tilt on both ends. I understand what you are trying to say but RJ isn't that guy. As I mentioned before, if he was lights out on offense and someone who could also initiate then yes that's valuable in the playoffs and for a team like ours - but that isn't him. Plus in back to back years he's shooting 60% from the line.

And they lost Game 7 because they couldn't score the ball

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

[billy_hoyle]

I would take a 3 and D archetype over RJ every day of the week. It's one of the reasons why NY and Toronto went in opposite directions for winning and losing. OG types impact winning. If RJ was a can't miss player on offense who also initiates then its a different story - but he's not that guy. One thing these playoffs have also shown is defense, length and height usually wins or push the limits on opposing teams just as Houston did to GS. Raps need to get bigger and better balance this roster out.

This team was 25th in scoring. Replacing RJ with a 3 & D guy isn't helping that.

If we had a Superstar or at least a bunch of legit #2 options, we can worry about balancing with 3 & D guy, but that's not the case.

And Houston lost because they couldn't score the ball

Houston got to 7 because they relied on defense and length. Adding RJ to that squad would not have gotten them further. They won because of their bigs and Amen playing full tilt on both ends. I understand what you are trying to say but RJ isn't that guy. As I mentioned before, if he was lights out on offense and someone who could also initiate then yes that's valuable in the playoffs and for a team like ours - but that isn't him. Plus in back to back years he's shooting 60% from the line.

Doesn't Houston play an all offence C and SG? They compensate for that with D at literally every other position. Brooks, Eason, Amen, FVV...

If you want to charge up the O, we should draft Queen.

[MEDIC]

Houston got to 7 because they relied on defense and length. Adding RJ to that squad would not have gotten them further. They won because of their bigs and Amen playing full tilt on both ends. I understand what you are trying to say but RJ isn't that guy. As I mentioned before, if he was lights out on offense and someone who could also initiate then yes that's valuable in the playoffs and for a team like ours - but that isn't him. Plus in back to back years he's shooting 60% from the line.

And they lost Game 7 because they couldn't score the ball

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

I still don't believe that report. They didn't give up very much to get BI. Why give up RJ, who is putting up borderline allstar level numbers, is getting better at defense, is a good locker room guy, is a favorite among average fans & is on a decent contract?

I think trading RJ in a separate deal gets them more value.

[WuTang_CMB]

And they lost Game 7 because they couldn't score the ball

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

[PushDaRock]

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

[WuTang_CMB]

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

Your argument is this current team needs RJ for his offense. He’s not valuable if they were looking to swap him for BI. You are argueing RJ is some difference maker. I asked you if HOU would trade him for Brooks. They aren’t for the reasons i already suggested.

[MEDIC]

I look at RJ the same way I look at Scottie. I want to see how he performs when the team is trying to win & when he has better talent around him. We saw some growth in his game this season (defensively). He'll keep working throughout the summer.

My only real complaint with RJ this season was his FT shooting. Other than that, he was fine. He looks like he can be a capable defender. He just needs to keep putting in the work & stay committed to getting better in that area.

If he can get over his FT mental hurdle, I think he is good....both as a contributing player & as an asset.

[billy_hoyle]

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

I don't think they do that trade either, but more because they have Jalen Green who is positionally redundant with RJ. You can't spend $50+m on one position.

RJ and Green are somewhat comparable players. Mostly offence, somewhat inconsistent SGs. Green has the higher ceiling because he's just a better, more varied scorer when he's hot, but RJ might end up being the better overall player with his rim pressure and playmaking.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

Your argument is this current team needs RJ for his offense. He’s not valuable if they were looking to swap him for BI. You are argueing RJ is some difference maker. I asked you if HOU would trade him for Brooks. They aren’t for the reasons i already suggested.

Is some hypothetical trade rumor now considered fact?

Define difference maker. On our team that struggles to generate rim pressure, yes I think he makes a difference offensively for us.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

I don't think they do that trade either, but more because they have Jalen Green who is positionally redundant with RJ. You can't spend $50+m on one position.

RJ and Green are somewhat comparable players. Mostly offence, somewhat inconsistent SGs. Green has the higher ceiling because he's just a better, more varied scorer when he's hot, but RJ might end up being the better overall player with his rim pressure and playmaking.

Yeah, they play the same position and wouldn't compliment each other at all either.

RJ at this point has the higher floor, Green's allure of potential is getting pretty close to wearing off. But if it does eventually click for him, the ceiling is quite high. If it doesn't though, he's pretty much a negative on the court.

[ConSarnit]

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

Players shot +1.7% fg against RJ this year, which is not good. Opponents averaged 1.33ppp in isolation against RJ, which is terrible (2nd percentile league wide). There were 123 players who defended 50+ iso possessions this year. RJ was dead last in points per possession allowed.

So no, RJ was not above average as a man defender.

[WuTang_CMB]

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

Your argument is this current team needs RJ for his offense. He’s not valuable if they were looking to swap him for BI. You are argueing RJ is some difference maker. I asked you if HOU would trade him for Brooks. They aren’t for the reasons i already suggested.

Is some hypothetical trade rumor now considered fact?

Define difference maker. On our team that struggles to generate rim pressure, yes I think he makes a difference offensively for us.

The gushing over RJ is cute. Not sure why this board has such a hard on for him.


I don't think you understand the conversation if you are suggesting that HOU will trade Jalen Green for RJ and not Dillon Brooks. I think that cements my argument even with the "they struggled to score in game 7". Teams absolutely want offensive difference makers in the playoffs - guys that can create their own shot, be efficient and be somewhat neutral on defense. The better the offense, the more the team will be willing to accept less on the defensive end. Houston got to a game 7 because of their defense. Steph Curry admitted that was the toughest defense he has ever played against. The Rockets wouldn't even give up a role player like Brooks to bring in RJ because RJ's offense would not give them an edge and would lesser their team defense. It's pretty much that simple. He doesn't shoot the 3 all that well (especially contested), doesn't hit his free throws and his defense is subpar. Now going back to my point, teams absolutely love 3 and D guys in the playoffs because that's what matters from role players, not what RJ is doing. Good player but doesn't give you want you want out of a role player and not good enough to be a top 3 option in a playoff series which is why IMO Toronto would gladly move off of him for a better role player that fits (or eventually will over time like a CB)

[ConSarnit]

But it's the defense and going big that carried them to a game 7. Dynamic scorers are great and hard to come by. Raps would prefer to get a 3 and D in place of RJ. There's a reason why they wanted to move off him for BI and N.O. said we will pass.

Yes they did and that was because they couldn't score the ball like I said.

I don't know why you would equate a rumor of him being discussed in a hypothetical trade with the team wanting to get rid of him.

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I think there is a bunch of context as to why RJ might have been included in the Ingram trade.

-we have a bunch of depth at his position

-his fit becomes less ideal with Ingram (who picks up the scoring slack). We need someone who can defend guards/wings and it won’t be IQ or Ingram. How does RJ react if we try to bring him off the bench?

-we lack salary flexibility. Moving RJ would have opened up pretty much the full MLE. Currently we are probably looking at the vet min to try and solve our backup big issues

If we were trying to move RJ I think it was probably a combination of fit and flexibility. I don’t believe it meant we were 100% soured on him as a player. On the current team he’d probably be more useful coming off the bench but how much sense does it make to spend $27m on a bench scorer?

[ATLTimekeeper]

The Raptors sucked when they traded OG. They didn't go in the opposite direction. It would be a significant waste of a pick to take a 3&D player in the top 10.

Lost.

Raps have gone 43-89 since RJ / OG trade
NY has gone 84-48.
Ask yourself where OG would go in a re-draft.

Do you think the Raptors were good when they traded OG? Do you think that only OG was the difference in their record, and only OG was the difference in the Knicks record? Do you really think like this?

[PushDaRock]

Yeah, great, but you are not getting there if you aren't defending. Ask yourself if HOU would trade Brooks for RJ. I'll tell you - no they're not.

I brought that up to explain to you that RJ isn't valuable in the front office's eyes since you are arguing they need his offense. They know who he is as a player.

I am saying a 25th ranked offense is getting significantly worse replacing RJ with a 3&D player, do you disagree?

They probably would do that trade if they could move off Green's contract and get some value for him. I think that's probably difficult to do though and a RJ + Green pairing isn't ideal.

RJ was about neutral as a defender last season, probably slightly above average as a man defender.

If you think RJ isn't valuable to the FO, Gradey must be completely useless to them.

Players shot +1.7% fg against RJ this year, which is not good. Opponents averaged 1.33ppp in isolation against RJ, which is terrible (2nd percentile league wide). There were 123 players who defended 50+ iso possessions this year. RJ was dead last in points per possession allowed.

So no, RJ was not above average as a man defender.

Eye Test and Numbers can say different things sometimes too I guess. Hard to believe he was in the 2nd percentile defending in isolation really and I think most people would probably say he looked improved as a man defender this past season. Am curious what he ranked in previous seasons.

[WuTang_CMB]

The Raptors sucked when they traded OG. They didn't go in the opposite direction. It would be a significant waste of a pick to take a 3&D player in the top 10.

Lost.

Raps have gone 43-89 since RJ / OG trade
NY has gone 84-48.
Ask yourself where OG would go in a re-draft.

Do you think the Raptors were good when they traded OG? Do you think that only OG was the difference in their record, and only OG was the difference in the Knicks record? Do you really think like this?

Lost again. You are 0-2

WuTang_OG wrote:

I would take a 3 and D archetype over RJ every day of the week. It's one of the reasons why NY and Toronto went in opposite directions for winning and losing. OG types impact winning. If RJ was a can't miss player on offense who also initiates then its a different story - but he's not that guy. One thing these playoffs have also shown is defense, length and height usually wins or push the limits on opposing teams just as Houston did to GS. Raps need to get bigger and better balance this roster out.

You gotta read dude. Pretty much identical opposite records since the trade which is what I said.
Where would OG go in a re-draft ATL if you don't think a 3 and D guy is worth of a lotto pick? Lol.

[PushDaRock]

Your argument is this current team needs RJ for his offense. He’s not valuable if they were looking to swap him for BI. You are argueing RJ is some difference maker. I asked you if HOU would trade him for Brooks. They aren’t for the reasons i already suggested.

Is some hypothetical trade rumor now considered fact?

Define difference maker. On our team that struggles to generate rim pressure, yes I think he makes a difference offensively for us.

The gushing over RJ is cute. Not sure why this board has such a hard on for him.


I don't think you understand the conversation if you are suggesting that HOU will trade Jalen Green for RJ and not Dillon Brooks. I think that cements my argument even with the "they struggled to score in game 7". Teams absolutely want offensive difference makers in the playoffs - guys that can create their own shot, be efficient and be somewhat neutral on defense. The better the offense, the more the team will be willing to accept less on the defensive end. Houston got to a game 7 because of their defense. Steph Curry admitted that was the toughest defense he has ever played against. The Rockets wouldn't even give up a role player like Brooks to bring in RJ because RJ's offense would not give them an edge and would lesser their team defense. It's pretty much that simple. He doesn't shoot the 3 all that well (especially contested), doesn't hit his free throws and his defense is subpar. Now going back to my point, teams absolutely love 3 and D guys in the playoffs because that's what matters from role players, not what RJ is doing. Good player but doesn't give you want you want out of a role player and not good enough to be a top 3 option in a playoff series which is why IMO Toronto would gladly move off of him for a better role player that fits (or eventually will over time like a CB)

lol not wanting to trade him for a 3&D player (Dorian Finney-Smith type) on a team that's already offensively challenged is considered gushing?

[ATLTimekeeper]

He might end up going between 8-10 in a re-draft. RJ is still going top 6 in his. The harder part is predicting which 3&D players can get to OG's level, which is why you don't take them in the top 10.

If you went and named the top 10 3&D players, how many would have been drafted in the top 10? KCP might be the only one.