Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis. Who's gone?

[Froob]

Both probably, and Hauser

They might move all 3 but they’ll probably move only two out of the three if Tatum is really coming back in Nine Months. I can only see a scenario where they get someone back who is a game changer that can complement Tatum Brown and White if they move on from all three.

Problem is this stupid CBA makes it hard to even cut salary above the 2nd aprons. May need to dump Hauser as a sweetner.

[the_process]

How?
With their pick, they are at 230M with 13 players, and the 1st/2nd apron is 196/208.
You think they cut 35M+ and get to 15?!?...and they cant aggregate players together... Tough

KP is good enough as an expiring to do a lot of the leg work, but his mystery illness has sapped any value until he proves to be healthy.
Jrue is hit the cliff and its nothing but down from here. The guy is approaching 40k minutes, and all of the most reasonable comps (Lowry, Billups, Rondo, Smart... a little byron scott/Conley as well) point to his being a tough contract to eat for 3 years.

Boston is obviously going to have to sell at a loss.

I'm not working out the whole trade here, but as an example, if BOS sent Porzingis and Holiday to Washington, and only took Marcus Smart in return.

Obviously, they'd have to figure a place to send Middleton to (BKN?) and picks would have to be involved (6 for 8?) for that probably.

Two things.

Porzingis is an expiring so he’s going to get value back. Jrue has more value than people realize so you’re underestimating how much they can get back. Now will they get multiple firsts for both and young stars? No. But they can do better than Marcus or Khris.

Second, if the Celtics do that proposal for Smart they will never win another title. It will tank Brown and Tatum’s development. Just look at how the team played last year vs years past. Tatum and Brown finally shot the ball at the end of the game instead of deferring to Marcus with the game on the line. That’s the real problem with having Marcus on this team. He also kind of held back Prichard and White too. It just doesn’t make sense.

Maybe all of that is correct. The priority remains to get out of the 2nd apron.

[celtxman]

That Holiday contract is **** gross. Almost 35, declining, and still owed $100M.

Funny how last year people were saying that the Bucks were stupid to “hand Jrue to the Celtics”

Now people realize the downside

The downside isn't about Jrue, it's about the combination of 2nd apron and Tatum's injury. Having Jrue is totally dependent on the rest of the team being healthy. But we all saw what he did in the playoffs last year, but a luxury that probably can no longer be afforded with a team that likely won't have Tatum next season.
Now to the thought of Milwaukee's decision move on from Holiday for Lillard who is exactly the same age. The Bucks are on the hook for 2 seasons and $120 M to Lillard. In Boston we know about devastating injury. But even having a healthy Lillard was a Hail Mary to get a championship. He's an undersized defensively challenged guard. He is a volume scorer who shoots 41% in his playoff career.
I remember Bucks fans telling us how Jrue would fail the Celtics in the playoffs. They were wrong. Rather than "the pot calling the kettle black" approach with Holiday's contract, worry about Lillard's contract.

[shi-woo]

People are over rating the Jrue contract. It' s essentially 3 years 100 mil, and we all know the last year when a players is expiring is also a decent time to trade and get value. Jrue is one of those guys that would get you value in that situation because he can mentor young guys and then get bought out or traded half way through the season. Whoever trades for him would be doing it to get off a smaller but longer contract, and looking to compete over the next two years.

DAL is exactly that team, and there are many others that will be interested. He's still a good shooter, and awesome defender. He's essentially been our SG, and had been an elite role player in that role that any title hopefull team could use, and then trade as an expirering if needed. I expect Jrue to be easy to move if we're being honest

[chrisab123]

Both probably, and Hauser

They might move all 3 but they’ll probably move only two out of the three if Tatum is really coming back in Nine Months. I can only see a scenario where they get someone back who is a game changer that can complement Tatum Brown and White if they move on from all three.

Problem is this stupid CBA makes it hard to even cut salary above the 2nd aprons. May need to dump Hauser as a sweetner.

If you trade one of Zingis or Jrue you’re under which solves that issue. You’re focused on value. But then again the last thing they should do is have a press conference today and say anything but they’re committed to winning another title no matter the price tag and if this is the best way to do it they’ll look into keeping the team. It maximizes leverage.

[pcbothwel]

How?
With their pick, they are at 230M with 13 players, and the 1st/2nd apron is 196/208.
You think they cut 35M+ and get to 15?!?...and they cant aggregate players together... Tough

KP is good enough as an expiring to do a lot of the leg work, but his mystery illness has sapped any value until he proves to be healthy.
Jrue is hit the cliff and its nothing but down from here. The guy is approaching 40k minutes, and all of the most reasonable comps (Lowry, Billups, Rondo, Smart... a little byron scott/Conley as well) point to his being a tough contract to eat for 3 years.

Boston is obviously going to have to sell at a loss.

I'm not working out the whole trade here, but as an example, if BOS sent Porzingis and Holiday to Washington, and only took Marcus Smart in return.

Obviously, they'd have to figure a place to send Middleton to (BKN?) and picks would have to be involved (6 for 8?) for that probably.

Two things.

Porzingis is an expiring so he’s going to get value back. Jrue has more value than people realize so you’re underestimating how much they can get back. Now will they get multiple firsts for both and young stars? No. But they can do better than Marcus or Khris.

Wait... Let me make sure I am hearing you correctly.
You think Porzingis & Jrue are POSITIVE assets?!?
I.e. You think you can trade both of them, without any additional assets, and come out in a better financial both short and long term?

You do realize every team in the NBA would take Smart at 1/20, or Midds at 1/34, over Jrue at 3/105M... right?

[GiannisAnte34]

Jrue brought a title to Boston. Yes they were stupid to make that deal. You can hate the extension but it doesn’t absolve the Bucks from an absolute moronic move.

It’s not a moronic move. Jrue is never going to be a 2nd option on a title team. Boston used him as a 4th option so comparing him in that situation is apples to oranges.

It was though. The Bucks didn’t need Lillard as much as you’d think. It was always kind of an odd fit. Obviously his ability to score is elite but the Bucks won without that before. They needed a guy like Jrue who would be a defensive stopper. Lillard couldn't guard a parking cone. They just needed scoring, depth off the bench, and they needed to hire a good coach. They did none of that which is why the Bucks are where they are.

Having injuries to Middleton, Dame, and Giannis in the playoffs is why they are where they are. The fit of Dame still has absolutely nothing to do with Jrue getting to the Celtics. Jrue was sent to Portland and they got a good package out of Boston for Jrue. The notion that Jrue was just handed to the Celtics is false. Now the Celtics are stuck with hard decisions and needing to dump huge salary… so no trading RWIII Brogdon and a FRP for Jrue wasn’t a freebie. Who knows if the Celtics will also have to attach a pick to rid themselves of Jrues 100 million / 3 year contract

[Rafael122]

Can someone fill me in on this b/c my math isn't mathing. They're trying to shed salaries, but in the NBA, you pretty much have to come close to the salaries matching to get anything done. So yeah, Boston can trade KP but you're probably trading it for 2 players on expirings making $15 mil each correct? Also, is anyone going to trade for Jrue on that contract? I guess what I'm trying to say is, where are the savings coming from if all you're doing is swapping out one contract for two for the same amount of $?

[chrisab123]

It’s not a moronic move. Jrue is never going to be a 2nd option on a title team. Boston used him as a 4th option so comparing him in that situation is apples to oranges.

It was though. The Bucks didn’t need Lillard as much as you’d think. It was always kind of an odd fit. Obviously his ability to score is elite but the Bucks won without that before. They needed a guy like Jrue who would be a defensive stopper. Lillard couldn't guard a parking cone. They just needed scoring, depth off the bench, and they needed to hire a good coach. They did none of that which is why the Bucks are where they are.

Having injuries to Middleton, Dame, and Giannis in the playoffs is why they are where they are. The fit of Dame still has absolutely nothing to do with Jrue getting to the Celtics. Jrue was sent to Portland and they got a good package out of Boston for Jrue. The notion that Jrue was just handed to the Celtics is false. Now the Celtics are stuck with hard decisions and needing to dump huge salary… so no trading RWIII Brogdon and a FRP for Jrue wasn’t a freebie. Who knows if the Celtics will also have to attach a pick to rid themselves of Jrues 100 million / 3 year contract

The package Portland got from Boston was lackluster and Boston won a chip. This might be the dumbest argument on this board. The extension and the cost of the acquisition are two different things that have nothing to do with each other. The extension hasn’t been great. The original trade got them a trophy.

Edit: the fit of Dame not having to do with Jrue getting sent to the Celtics is also factually incorrect. Milwaukee thought he fit better so they send Jrue to the Blazers who in turn traded him to Boston. So yes it did.

[chrisab123]

Boston is obviously going to have to sell at a loss.

I'm not working out the whole trade here, but as an example, if BOS sent Porzingis and Holiday to Washington, and only took Marcus Smart in return.

Obviously, they'd have to figure a place to send Middleton to (BKN?) and picks would have to be involved (6 for 8?) for that probably.

Two things.

Porzingis is an expiring so he’s going to get value back. Jrue has more value than people realize so you’re underestimating how much they can get back. Now will they get multiple firsts for both and young stars? No. But they can do better than Marcus or Khris.

Wait... Let me make sure I am hearing you correctly.
You think Porzingis & Jrue are POSITIVE assets?!?
I.e. You think you can trade both of them, without any additional assets, and come out in a better financial both short and long term?

You do realize every team in the NBA would take Smart at 1/20, or Midds at 1/34, over Jrue at 3/105M... right?

Generally negative assets don’t have teams interested in them. You list expiring contracts of Smart and Middleton as positive but list the expiring of KP as negative when KP is better than both of them and makes less than Middleton. By positive assets I’m not saying you’re going to get a ton back. I’m just saying posters proclaiming that Boston will have to attach multiple first rounders to them might be…gasp…wrong. Not to mention Jrue can still play. He’s not what he was two years ago but he can still help a contender. Middleton is just an expiring at this point with no value. Smart also has no value since he hasn’t been good in years and is a ball dominant guard that wants to be the focal point of an offense but that’s not his skill set.

So yes you’ll do better than Middleton or Smart for them. You aren’t getting 1sts back but you’re probably not sending them either so that’s a positive.

[chrisab123]

Can someone fill me in on this b/c my math isn't mathing. They're trying to shed salaries, but in the NBA, you pretty much have to come close to the salaries matching to get anything done. So yeah, Boston can trade KP but you're probably trading it for 2 players on expirings making $15 mil each correct? Also, is anyone going to trade for Jrue on that contract? I guess what I'm trying to say is, where are the savings coming from if all you're doing is swapping out one contract for two for the same amount of $?

What happens is the Celtics cannot combine salaries to get someone back at the same amount of money until they get under the 2nd apron. So you can’t combine KP and Jrue for Giannis let’s say. However if you deal one, you’re then able to combine the salaries of multiple players for one.

[JujitsuFlip]

Can someone fill me in on this b/c my math isn't mathing. They're trying to shed salaries, but in the NBA, you pretty much have to come close to the salaries matching to get anything done. So yeah, Boston can trade KP but you're probably trading it for 2 players on expirings making $15 mil each correct? Also, is anyone going to trade for Jrue on that contract? I guess what I'm trying to say is, where are the savings coming from if all you're doing is swapping out one contract for two for the same amount of $?

KP being expiring would get them out of the 2nd apron if they dump him to the Nets. Probably still need to send Hauser to Hawks, Bulls, Mavs, Pelicans, or Heat into one of their large trade exceptions. Shouldn't have to attach much to him as he is a useful player and can shoot.

Horford probably retires.

Jrue $32.4 MM/PP $7.23 MM/JD $2.27 MM

White $28.1 MM/Scheierman $2.62/pick #32

Brown IR? $53.14 MM/Walsh $2.22 MM

Tatum IR $54.13 MM/pick #28 $2.32 MM

Kornet vet min/Queta $2.35 MM/Tillman $2.55 MM

That would put them at ~$193 million for 13 players. They are for sure out of the 2nd apron and if they penny pinched on that final spot, they could possibly even dodge the 1st apron too.

Trading Jrue for a returning salary that is either shorter in years or less in money would just be a cherry on top at that point.

[pcbothwel]

Two things.

Porzingis is an expiring so he’s going to get value back. Jrue has more value than people realize so you’re underestimating how much they can get back. Now will they get multiple firsts for both and young stars? No. But they can do better than Marcus or Khris.

Wait... Let me make sure I am hearing you correctly.
You think Porzingis & Jrue are POSITIVE assets?!?
I.e. You think you can trade both of them, without any additional assets, and come out in a better financial both short and long term?

You do realize every team in the NBA would take Smart at 1/20, or Midds at 1/34, over Jrue at 3/105M... right?

Generally negative assets don’t have teams interested in them. You list expiring contracts of Smart and Middleton as positive but list the expiring of KP as negative when KP is better than both of them and makes less than Middleton. By positive assets I’m not saying you’re going to get a ton back. I’m just saying posters proclaiming that Boston will have to attach multiple first rounders to them might be…gasp…wrong. Not to mention Jrue can still play. He’s not what he was two years ago but he can still help a contender. Middleton is just an expiring at this point with no value. Smart also has no value since he hasn’t been good in years and is a ball dominant guard that wants to be the focal point of an offense but that’s not his skill set.

So yes you’ll do better than Middleton or Smart for them. You aren’t getting 1sts back but you’re probably not sending them either so that’s a positive.

I'll leave you'll to discuss, but I think you guys are way off base.
KP was excellent for us (DC) and continued to be really good for Boston. He is a valuable expiring that many contenders would love to have...
HOWEVER, he is an injury prone player who just played in 42/82 games this year. THEN, a mystery respiratory illness completely debilitated him, and no ones appears to know what the hell is going on.
I think you get NOTHING for him unless he starts the season with you'll and his lung issue is cleared.

The fact that you, and apparently others, think that Jrue is worth more than Middleton is not based in reality. He is a Mike Conley/CP3 class of players, which is a sub-MLE player for ~2 years. Go look at other Vet extensions of Aaron Gordon, Caruso, Derrick White, etc. All guys in their late 20's/30 and far better players than Jrue.

Point is. You can use KP & Jrue to lower your salary unless you A) Trade picks, or B) Take on bad player/bad contract, which is tough because you cant aggregate salaries to do so.
We'll see if Im wrong, but the financial moves in the NBA over the last year would point to me actually understating how bad it is.

[In-N-Out 247]

Can someone fill me in on this b/c my math isn't mathing. They're trying to shed salaries, but in the NBA, you pretty much have to come close to the salaries matching to get anything done. So yeah, Boston can trade KP but you're probably trading it for 2 players on expirings making $15 mil each correct? Also, is anyone going to trade for Jrue on that contract? I guess what I'm trying to say is, where are the savings coming from if all you're doing is swapping out one contract for two for the same amount of $?

It would have to be at least a 3 team deal, where Porzingis or Holiday goes to a team who trades 2/3 players for them, then you send some of those players to the 3rd team who either has cap space or a trade exception to absorb that salary. That gives the Celtics instant cap relief.

[syrus3]

Brad Stevens has managed to fleece teams already. I guess it won’t be shocking if he pulls off another Hail Mary.

[Rafael122]

Can someone fill me in on this b/c my math isn't mathing. They're trying to shed salaries, but in the NBA, you pretty much have to come close to the salaries matching to get anything done. So yeah, Boston can trade KP but you're probably trading it for 2 players on expirings making $15 mil each correct? Also, is anyone going to trade for Jrue on that contract? I guess what I'm trying to say is, where are the savings coming from if all you're doing is swapping out one contract for two for the same amount of $?

It would have to be at least a 3 team deal, where Porzingis or Holiday goes to a team who trades 2/3 players for them, then you send some of those players to the 3rd team who either has cap space or a trade exception to absorb that salary. That gives the Celtics instant cap relief.

That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. It's essentially salary dumps but I couldn't word it correctly lol.

[LakersSoul]

I would keep Jrue and trade KP and Hauser.
I assume Al Horford will retire.

- Jrue at age 35 soon and making $32/35/37 is not gonna be a good player to trade. Boston will have to add 1-2 FRPs.
- KP will turn 30 but so injury prone. He could get some buyers but nothing more than half-decent return as expiring.


- DWhite has value esp at $28m


- Al and Kornet are FAs and Kornet will get a decent payraise over $2million. Not sure if Boston owners will throw $6-9m to have him back.

IOW, without key guys, not sure if Boston will be favorites to win a Ring or even a top 3 pick next year.
Without that, will owners pay the luxury tax?

[WargamesX]

The issue is who is trading for these guys in a way that makes sense for the Celtics. No one has cap space like that besides maybe Brooklyn, and no one has expirings like that to send back.

[JujitsuFlip]

The issue is who is trading for these guys in a way that makes sense for the Celtics. No one has cap space like that besides maybe Brooklyn, and no one has expirings like that to send back.

KP is expiring and the Nets have no exaggeration 4 first rounders in the 2025 NBA draft. They're not trying to compete next season, he'll be a solid vet to their team.

That gets the Celtics out of the 2nd apron. Then to be able to fill out the roster and be comfortable, attach a 2nd to Hauser and trade him into one of the Hawks, Heat, Bulls, Pelicans, or Mavs trade exceptions.

Horford most likely retires, even if he doesn't, don't offer him one penny over the vet min.

[ShootersShoot]

The issue is who is trading for these guys in a way that makes sense for the Celtics. No one has cap space like that besides maybe Brooklyn, and no one has expirings like that to send back.

KP is expiring and the Nets have no exaggeration 4 first rounders in the 2025 NBA draft. They're not trying to compete next season, he'll be a solid vet to their team.

That gets the Celtics out of the 2nd apron. Then to be able to fill out the roster and be comfortable, attach a 2nd to Hauser and trade him into one of the Hawks, Heat, Bulls, Pelicans, or Mavs trade exceptions.

Horford most likely retires, even if he doesn't, don't offer him one penny over the vet min.

Celts can dump kp on the nets..maybe offer a second. From the nets point of view they can try to flip an expiring kp for an additional asset.