2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[TheBlackCzar]

How much more valuable would Kispert be if he had a stronger lower body, actually shot 3s well and was pretty good at running P&Rs? That's Kon Knueppel in a nutshell.

Yeah not a guy I'd draft at 6.......

[tontoz]

Piggybacking off our convo about height earlier, anyone notice Bailey was listed at 6'10 all season and measured in at 6'7.25"?


I'm thinking of starting a sock company aimed at NBA prospects. Extra thick 1" sole socks.

Not a surprise, and doesn't really matter since his standing reach of 8'11 is only 3 inches less than Sarr.

[Dat2U]

Joan Beringer is a Javale McGee run & jump athlete with ridiculously long arms and elite mobility for 6-10. He had two startling drives to the rim that looked Giannis'esque but for the most part, there isnt much offensive skill but alot of mobility and activity on defense. He projects as a switchable rim runner but is a couple of years away. Early 2nd round is ideal for him.

[dckingsfan]

That is where production comes in, or lack thereof. Clingan was similarly slow but has a good motor which showed in his production.

Clingan also needs to work on his body. He seems to be doing so and his quickness seems to be improving. Clingan is already a very good rebounder and shot blocker. I "think" we would need to be patient on Maluach if we take him... he would very much be a work in progress (as is Clingan).

Clingan was a good rebounder and shot blocker in college. It shouldn't be surprising that it's translated to the pros.

Yeah, kind of my point. Second point is that he seems to be improving his quickness on top of that... that was a really good pick, IMO.

[AFM]

Piggybacking off our convo about height earlier, anyone notice Bailey was listed at 6'10 all season and measured in at 6'7.25"?


I'm thinking of starting a sock company aimed at NBA prospects. Extra thick 1" sole socks.

Not a surprise, and doesn't really matter since his standing reach of 8'11 is only 3 inches less than Sarr.

3 inches less and 3 inches less on his vertical leap.

[dckingsfan]

That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.

This argument also applies to Queen by the way…

Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.

Well, (sans sarcasm) in a way that is true. The NBA plays much faster...

[tontoz]

Clingan also needs to work on his body. He seems to be doing so and his quickness seems to be improving. Clingan is already a very good rebounder and shot blocker. I "think" we would need to be patient on Maluach if we take him... he would very much be a work in progress (as is Clingan).

Clingan was a good rebounder and shot blocker in college. It shouldn't be surprising that it's translated to the pros.

Yeah, kind of my point. Second point is that he seems to be improving his quickness on top of that... that was a really good pick, IMO.

If he had more on offense I would have been advocating for him at 2. He is so limited on offense I just couldn't do it, and it isn't hard to find defensive Cs later in the draft or in free agency.

[Dat2U]

Noa Essengue is a hard read for me. His production at his age is terrific. He is a physically imposing 6-10 and moves unsually well for his size. He draws fouls at an astronomical rate over multiple leagues. He creates defensive events all over the court and willingly shoots 3s.

What gives me pause? His hands. There are alot of instances where he doesn't catch passes cleanly. He also lacks polished perimeter skills. He is really raw as wing/forward skill wise and I dont know if the foul drawing rafe translates against better athletes who arent overwhelmed by Noa's size/athleticism.

[dckingsfan]

Clingan was a good rebounder and shot blocker in college. It shouldn't be surprising that it's translated to the pros.

Yeah, kind of my point. Second point is that he seems to be improving his quickness on top of that... that was a really good pick, IMO.

If he had more on offense I would have been advocating for him at 2. He is so limited on offense I just couldn't do it, and it isn't hard to find defensive Cs later in the draft or in free agency.

Well, what I am seeing.

He is going to be a really good defensive C. Drafted at age 19, he rebounds well, blocks shots well and was getting pretty adept at defensive rotations. He is working on his body, foot speed and quickness and I think it is going to translate well to switchability.

On the offensive side of the ball he was "limited" especially early in the season. Then in February he posted a .653 TS, followed by a .571 in April (those are the highlight). That and his picks got progressively better as the season moved along. The real ugly part is his FT percentage - he started out shooting .750ish and then fell into the high .500s. Ouch.

Point two as it pertains to this draft. As Doc mentioned this one is deep with bigs. I really think we should be using one of our FRPs to take at least one big. Several seem to be on the same level as Clingan.

[AFM]

This argument also applies to Queen by the way…

Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.

Well, (sans sarcasm) in a way that is true. The NBA plays much faster...

Understood. I just think sometimes we suffer from a gluttony of information. They're measuring these dudes' hands. At a certain point you have to step back and remember this is basketball and what ultimately matters is how good they are at it.

[dckingsfan]

Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.

Well, (sans sarcasm) in a way that is true. The NBA plays much faster...

Understood. I just think sometimes we suffer from a gluttony of information. They're measuring these dudes' hands. At a certain point you have to step back and remember this is basketball and what ultimately matters is how good they are at it.

Valid point. But as a GM I would want to know if a PG is 6'1'' or 6'4" or if a PF is 20% body fat and can't move

[AFM]

This reminds me of a convo I had with a dude on the general board a while back. He was basically implying I was racist because I didn't believe Reed Sheppard had a 42" vertical leap--the same as Vince Carter ("Come on, why don't you tell us the real reason you don't believe it?"). I told him, show me a video of him dunking like Vince Carter--just once. You won't because he can't dunk like that.

Queen and Maluach might have the same scores on the agility drills but I know which one is way more mobile and coordinated.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

CBS SPORTS MOCK DRAFT

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[tontoz]

This reminds me of a convo I had with a dude on the general board a while back. He was basically implying I was racist because I didn't believe Reed Sheppard had a 42" vertical leap--the same as Vince Carter ("Come on, why don't you tell us the real reason you don't believe it?"). I told him, show me a video of him dunking like Vince Carter--just once. You won't because he can't dunk like that.

Queen and Maluach might have the same scores on the agility drills but I know which one is way more mobile and coordinated.

Sheppard can't dunk like that because he's 6'2 with short arms. I'm not sure if he can even palm the ball.

He does get a lot of blocks for a small guy though. He averaged a block per 36 this season.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Joan Beringer is a Javale McGee run & jump athlete with ridiculously long arms and elite mobility for 6-10. He had two startling drives to the rim that looked Giannis'esque but for the most part, there isnt much offensive skill but alot of mobility and activity on defense. He projects as a switchable rim runner but is a couple of years away. Early 2nd round is ideal for him.

Watch on YouTube

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I mixed up the reach and wingspan measurements. Maluach has a 7-'7" wingspan and a 9'-6 reach (not 7-6 and 9-7). 3 inches of reach and 4 inches of wingspan is a big deal. Those couple of inches are the difference between blocking a shot and merely challenging a shot.

Those few inches didn't seem to matter much in college. 2.9 stocks per 40 are pretty lame. Kat had 5.1 per 40.

Probably because he is slow with a weak motor.

To be honest, after seeing Maluach's combine scores, I'm not particularly interested in him either. There is scant evidence that anybody can have success at the NBA level with a lane agility score above 12. The only guys that do are the ones with insane standing reaches (which, to be fair, Maluach does). But even those guys aren't really game changers - not unless they bring an unusual offensive skill like a 3-ball.

Maluach basically looks like another Donovan Clingan. That's not a terrible thing, but not really something I'd be excited to draft at #6 either. A pick of Maluach would be a bet that he has a lot of athletic improvement in his future just by getting proper physical training. If he remains as immobile as he is right now, he won't be that good.

Without looking at stats, I'd guess Clingan is a far superior rebounder and a better shot blocker.

[AFM]

I would be pretty unhappy if we walked away with Kasparus and Wolf. No thank you.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Noa Essengue is a hard read for me. His production at his age is terrific. He is a physically imposing 6-10 and moves unsually well for his size. He draws fouls at an astronomical rate over multiple leagues. He creates defensive events all over the court and willingly shoots 3s.

What gives me pause? His hands. There are alot of instances where he doesn't catch passes cleanly. He also lacks polished perimeter skills. He is really raw as wing/forward skill wise and I dont know if the foul drawing rafe translates against better athletes who arent overwhelmed by Noa's size/athleticism.

I'm not interested in Essengue. I was intrigued at first with his physical attributes, but he doesn't look like he'll be NBA ready anytime soon if ever. Too awkward, too many holes in his game, lack of perimeter skill and too thin to play on the interior. Doesn't take contact well, has a kind of lackadaisical style of play. Even the interviews I've seen of him he comes across as aloof.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.

This argument also applies to Queen by the way…

Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.

It's simple. Centers are involved in something like 50% of defensive possessions. Most offenses are schemed to pit their team's best and quickest ball handler against the opponent's slowest player. If a team has a really slow player who is also not a long and tall shot blocker, then your team will absolutely suck defensively, at least in the playoffs when the team has the time to work out a scouting report to exploit your slow non-shot-blocker.

In most cases, it's impossible for your center to be so good offensively that he can overcome this massive, team-killing weakness on defense. Look around at the offensively gifted but defensively compromised centers in this league, guys like Vucevic, Nurkic, Bryant, Valanciunas. In every case, their team sucks with them on the floor even if they post good numbers. And Queen is shorter than those guys.

Even Sabonis and Sengun, who are step quicker than the guys I mentioned as well as being the most adept offensively, haven't won a playoff series yet. Jokic is the only exception, and that's because he is the greatest offensive player of all time and he has also improved his conditioning tremendously so that he at least moves well on defense and is in the right place. Also, his ball handling and high post game allow the Nuggets to play through him on virtually every possession. Most good centers are still reliant on quality entry passes or blown pick-and-roll coverage to get the ball so they are unable to carry a high enough usage to alter the game even if they are great offensively when they do get the ball.

The only hope for Queen to be a playoff starter is if he has a radical body transformation like what Julius Randle, Naz Reid, and Udonis Haslem did so that he could move to power forward and guard the position. There's certainly a small chance that could happen, but I wouldn't bet the #6 pick on it.

[nate33]

Those few inches didn't seem to matter much in college. 2.9 stocks per 40 are pretty lame. Kat had 5.1 per 40.

Probably because he is slow with a weak motor.

To be honest, after seeing Maluach's combine scores, I'm not particularly interested in him either. There is scant evidence that anybody can have success at the NBA level with a lane agility score above 12. The only guys that do are the ones with insane standing reaches (which, to be fair, Maluach does). But even those guys aren't really game changers - not unless they bring an unusual offensive skill like a 3-ball.

Maluach basically looks like another Donovan Clingan. That's not a terrible thing, but not really something I'd be excited to draft at #6 either. A pick of Maluach would be a bet that he has a lot of athletic improvement in his future just by getting proper physical training. If he remains as immobile as he is right now, he won't be that good.

Without looking at stats, I'd guess Clingan is a far superior rebounder and a better shot blocker.

He is. But he had an extra 1.5 years to fill out and grow into his body. If Maluach stayed another year in college, I would expect his sophomore numbers to look something more like Clingan's.