2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[BoyzNTheHood]

If all 3 of Maluach, Essengue, and Fears go before our pick someone is guaranteed to fall. We know Flagg, Harper, and Edgecombe are going top 4 at the least. So now we only have to account for 3 guys. You assume Ace is in that group, but he could also be the one who drops.

Let’s say the 2 unaccounted for guys are Ace and Tre, that leaves us with Kon who is a damn good pick. Just look at what he did with Cooper out in the ACC tournament. Dudes a beast.

[pilkoids]

Anyone else seeing rookie Pascal Siakam in Rasheer Flemmings game?

Pascal has even gotten his 3pt % above average! Had he shown that in Toronto, I would've been okay to re-sign him for $40 million.

Rasheer is actually taller with a bigger wingspan too so able to finish stronger with dunks from standstill. Can you imagine a mix of Pascal and Duren?

The ball handling and creation is the big difference between Fleming and Siakam. Fleming is not an on-ball player on offense.

Outside his predictable spin move, I don't remember rookie Pascal having any great handles.

[OakleyDokely]

Pascal has even gotten his 3pt % above average! Had he shown that in Toronto, I would've been okay to re-sign him for $40 million.

Rasheer is actually taller with a bigger wingspan too so able to finish stronger with dunks from standstill. Can you imagine a mix of Pascal and Duren?

The ball handling and creation is the big difference between Fleming and Siakam. Fleming is not an on-ball player on offense.

Outside his predictable spin move, I don't remember rookie Pascal having any great handles.

The Raps basically used Siakam in the dunkers spot in his rookie season and he wasn't involved much in the offense beyond transition/garbage points. But if you look back at his college clips, that skill was there and then he improved it in the NBA year after year.

[Psubs]

Pascal has even gotten his 3pt % above average! Had he shown that in Toronto, I would've been okay to re-sign him for $40 million.

Rasheer is actually taller with a bigger wingspan too so able to finish stronger with dunks from standstill. Can you imagine a mix of Pascal and Duren?

The ball handling and creation is the big difference between Fleming and Siakam. Fleming is not an on-ball player on offense.

Outside his predictable spin move, I don't remember rookie Pascal having any great handles.

Agreed. Rasheer may not be a jumbo creator but one can see that he can be like a lankier Bam Adebayo that can shoot 3's.

[Ell Curry]

I keep saying it but I really don't think we need to be wasting a top 10 pick on a C. This year there's a very solid group of Cs that can be had in the second round that will do most, if not all, of what we can expect from the likliest outcome of Maluach.

As for #9 - this might sound crazy but the more I look into it, the more I'm thinking we should be taking Cedric Coward.

I know that seems high and he's only played 6 games this season but even his prior numbers are very, very good. He has amazing shooting numbers, very good rebounder, solid passer, good defender and phenomenal measurements at the combine.

Since I don't believe there are any stars available at #9 (barring someone falling to us), taking the next best thing seems to be the right thing to do. I think he has a chance to be a very, very good player and if we don't take him here, there won't be another chance to grab him later.

Can't seem him making it past #15.

I know he's older, but a 3+D guy with Scottie's wingspan, good strength, gets boards and seems to have a pull-up jumper?

He doesn't have Kawhi's insane hands, but a lot of other qualities seem similar and still the same hand width/length as Boogie Cousins, which is pretty damn good.

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Seems like a smart kid who just wants to contribute to winning as a defender and rebounder and apparently he's a solid shooter.

I think the big question might be his handle. Is it going to be good enough for him to not just be a role player. But even then, if he's basically Agbaji but with Scottie's size, that's an NBA starter.

[Psubs]

The ball handling and creation is the big difference between Fleming and Siakam. Fleming is not an on-ball player on offense.

Outside his predictable spin move, I don't remember rookie Pascal having any great handles.

The Raps basically used Siakam in the dunkers spot in his rookie season and he wasn't involved much in the offense beyond transition/garbage points. But if you look back at his college clips, that skill was there and then he improved it in the NBA year after year.

He was clearly the best player and not playing with selfish guards.

[Brinbe]

Again, no need to overcomplicate it. If you're gonna go the (to take a classic old Simmons term) Tremendous Upside Potential route at 9, why wouldn't you just go with the guy in Bryant who will be a plus defender with a ready made jumper who has solid athleticism/good measureables and has shown he can be a decent passer? We saw his value at Arizona and how he lifted them despite not getting as much run as he probably should've got and he passes the eye/numbers tests. Is he an on-ball creation monster? Probably not, but if he was he probably wouldn't be available at 9. But we don't need him to be that either when there on-ball creators already on this team and you also never know how guys might develop. It's not out of the question considering his tools and relative age. But what's there is the bones of a very good two-way player who fits a defined complementary role at the next level and fits what Masai was talking about in terms of what he was looking for in this draft.

Don't we consistently see in the playoffs how those are the guys you can't play off the floor? Mikael Bridges fits this and went for five FRPs lol.

And compare, for example, with Essengue, and I think people overindex on how athletes/prospects look in transition because it's exciting/flashy and fail to acknowledge how they'll look in half-court settings and that's when things fall apart with him a bit. If they're gonna ultimately similar roles as off-ball corner winģs, take the guy with a better shot.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/carter-bryant-is-a-winning-player

That’s interesting. I’d think of him as more of a safe pick than having tremendous upside potential.

Perception is funny like that, isn't it? I agree in that Bryant is seemingly on the safer side because he has a digestible floor and maybe lacks some of the mystery box that a guy like Essengue possesses. But looking at the fuller context, Carter is only 19 with legit size for his position and also has great functional athleticism that shows up on tape and hangs with anyone in this class. And I think the big thing that people are missing with him is that he has the defensive chops to match anyone not named Flagg in this class.

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He does perhap lacks the sizzle and on-ball highlights of someone like an Ace but he's not exactly OG-bad with his dribble either. That just wasn't his role, but he did what was asked of him and was good as a shooter. But also, projecting limitations on a 19-year-old doesn't make sense either. There's really no telling where exactly he could be with it in 3/4 years, especially with this Raps developmental crew. After seeing DeMar's career arc in terms of his handle/playmaking, you never quite know where guys may end up. But the important thing is that the bones are there as he already has a workable jumper, the size and the athletic traits to excel in the league. That's where the upside lies.

More than anything though is that he has already proven that he can positively impact winning in a legit way and showed that at Arizona despite not getting the playing time he probably deserved to get. The numbers don't lie in that respect. They made the sweet sixteen and he played a big part in powering them there.

And to me, that's pretty much the name of the game. You find winning players to add to your program and that's Carter Bryant, who checks all the right boxes. And it's not a surprise that front offices are all over him now as he already as is fits the archetype of someone that stays on the floor in a tight playoff series just virtue of his shooting and defensive capabilities, but there may well be more to be found there in a few years time as he gets into his early to mid 20s.

[DG88]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

[Landomar]

Another point in Richardson's favor is his age. He's an October 2006 birthday, the same as Jeremiah Fears, which makes him one of the youngest players in the draft.

He's a 2005 birthday so he's an older freshman, still 10 months younger than Queen thougj.

Tankathon says 2006, but everywhere else on the internet says 2005. Thanks for the correction.

[OakleyDokely]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

That's fair but a lot still depends on development because there are/were projected role players who put the work in and turned themselves into allstar level guys. There's value in knowing you're at least getting a NBA rotation player at the bare minimum.

I think the swing picks are guys like Essengue, Fears, Demin who have the profile of potentially elite players if things go right, but a lot could still go wrong and they struggle to even get a 2nd contract.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Carter was like 7th in minutes/game on his own team. I would consider his stats unreliable. It's easier to pick up stocks when you have no responsibility to carry a scoring burden or keep your fouls down, because your team can't win without you.

[Clutch0z24]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

Yeah i have to agree....Its really really hard in todays NBA for a player with no handle/Iso moves/Shot creation skills to be anything more than just a role player....Good player sure but i think we need to get more than that in this draft....Not to say they can't one day learn to self create but usually what you see is what you get...

[XTC]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

In an ideal scenario this draft will produce 3/4 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of elite bench players.

I'm in the group where I think if you come out with a role player who has elite qualities, that's a very good outcome. I mean no one's complaining if they draft an OG Anunoby or Herb Jones in the lottery. People need to temper their expectations when it comes to the draft. This draft looks to be on the weaker end when it comes to star quality, but I see a ton of guys who can hopefully become starter quality. I think Fleming is going to be an absolute stud at the NBA level, he's probably gone before we pick. I personally wouldn't mind dropping down and grabbing two good players... say a Walter Clayton JR, Cedric Coward, or Nique Clifford.

[Psubs]

Noa is this year's Coulibaly

He's this year's Tidjane Salaun - all projection. Coulibaly at least came in a NBA-level defender and showed more on ball flashes than Noa.

Ya, this years Coulibaly is Cedric Coward.

[Clutch0z24]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

In an ideal scenario this draft will produce 3 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of elite role players.

I'm in the group where I think if you come out with a role player who has elite qualities, that's a very good outcome. I mean no one's complaining if they draft an OG Anunoby or Herb Jones in the lottery. People need to temper their expectations when it comes to the draft. This draft looks to be on the weaker end when it comes to star quality, but I see a ton of guys who can hopefully become starter quality. I think Fleming is going to be an absolute stud at the NBA level, he's probably gone before we pick.

Thats also assuming these guys are even close to as good as OG which also might be dreaming big here....I don't see elite defenders....Good defenders sure but not elite....There is more a chance you are drafting Patrick Williams than OG here...

[nowayguy]

I keep saying it but I really don't think we need to be wasting a top 10 pick on a C. This year there's a very solid group of Cs that can be had in the second round that will do most, if not all, of what we can expect from the likliest outcome of Maluach.

As for #9 - this might sound crazy but the more I look into it, the more I'm thinking we should be taking Cedric Coward.

I know that seems high and he's only played 6 games this season but even his prior numbers are very, very good. He has amazing shooting numbers, very good rebounder, solid passer, good defender and phenomenal measurements at the combine.

Since I don't believe there are any stars available at #9 (barring someone falling to us), taking the next best thing seems to be the right thing to do. I think he has a chance to be a very, very good player and if we don't take him here, there won't be another chance to grab him later.

Can't seem him making it past #15.

I know he's older, but a 3+D guy with Scottie's wingspan, good strength, gets boards and seems to have a pull-up jumper?

He doesn't have Kawhi's insane hands, but a lot of other qualities seem similar and still the same hand width/length as Boogie Cousins, which is pretty damn good.

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Seems like a smart kid who just wants to contribute to winning as a defender and rebounder and apparently he's a solid shooter.

I think the big question might be his handle. Is it going to be good enough for him to not just be a role player. But even then, if he's basically Agbaji but with Scottie's size, that's an NBA starter.

I wish he was able to participate in the combine scrimmages, would have been good to see him go up against better competition l. If he goes to the Raps, I have to imagine it's because he dominates the private workouts.

[XTC]

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

In an ideal scenario this draft will produce 3 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of elite role players.

I'm in the group where I think if you come out with a role player who has elite qualities, that's a very good outcome. I mean no one's complaining if they draft an OG Anunoby or Herb Jones in the lottery. People need to temper their expectations when it comes to the draft. This draft looks to be on the weaker end when it comes to star quality, but I see a ton of guys who can hopefully become starter quality. I think Fleming is going to be an absolute stud at the NBA level, he's probably gone before we pick.

Thats also assuming these guys are even close to as good as OG which also might be dreaming big here....I don't see elite defenders....Good defenders sure but not elite....There is more a chance you are drafting Patrick Williams than OG here...

Even considering Patrick Williams off the top of my head he probably still goes top 15 in a 2020 redraft. Even being a disappointed, he's still a solid defender who can hit open shots, he's still getting drafted top 15 in a 2020 redraft IMO. The draft is such a crapshoot, you're pretty much throwing darts on a board.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

In an ideal scenario this draft will produce 3 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of elite role players.

I'm in the group where I think if you come out with a role player who has elite qualities, that's a very good outcome. I mean no one's complaining if they draft an OG Anunoby or Herb Jones in the lottery. People need to temper their expectations when it comes to the draft. This draft looks to be on the weaker end when it comes to star quality, but I see a ton of guys who can hopefully become starter quality. I think Fleming is going to be an absolute stud at the NBA level, he's probably gone before we pick. I personally wouldn't mind dropping down and grabbing two good players... say a Walter Clayton JR, Cedric Coward, or Nique Clifford.

I don't think there are a handful of OG Anunoby's in every draft.

[ItsDanger]

Hansen Yang is in much better shape currently than prior drafts. His defense was very poor before so not sure what it's like now. If it's just bad-below average, he's still playable as a backup. Just zone the defense more and maximize his offense on the other end. Should be available early 2nd round.

[XTC]

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

In an ideal scenario this draft will produce 3 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of elite role players.

I'm in the group where I think if you come out with a role player who has elite qualities, that's a very good outcome. I mean no one's complaining if they draft an OG Anunoby or Herb Jones in the lottery. People need to temper their expectations when it comes to the draft. This draft looks to be on the weaker end when it comes to star quality, but I see a ton of guys who can hopefully become starter quality. I think Fleming is going to be an absolute stud at the NBA level, he's probably gone before we pick. I personally wouldn't mind dropping down and grabbing two good players... say a Walter Clayton JR, Cedric Coward, or Nique Clifford.

I don't think there are a handful of OG Anunoby's in every draft.

Definitely not, you're lucky to get 1 in a draft. Guys like OG, McDaniels, and Herb Jones are so vital to every contending team. I also think these type of players are also easier to get in later picks.

What time trying to get at is, if we come out with a role player, and a high end one at that (OG Anunoby), no one is complaining. It would be great if every pick was a a shot creating top 3 option, but in reality that's not true, most of those guys flame out. People need to temper their expectations with the #9 pick, even drafting a OG/Herb/McDaniels with the #9 pick would be a massive steal.

Maybe it would have been better to say 3/4 allstars, a handful of high end starters, and a handful of high end bench pieces is the realistic outcome for most drafts.