2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[Tripod]

Combine Measurements:
Fleming: 6'8.25 height, 7'5.25 wingspan, 9.50 hand length, 232.4 lbs
Anunoby: 6'8.75 height, 7'2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length, 232.4 lbs

Soph stats:
Fleming: 26.8 MIN, 10.7 PPG, 7.4 REB, 0.8 AST, 0.8 STL, 1.5 BLK, .528 FG, .324 3PT, .612 FT, .600 TS, 18.9 USG, 4.6 BPM
Anunoby: 25.1 MIN, 11.1 PPG, 5.4 REB, 1.4 AST, 1.3 STL, 1.3 BLK, .557 FG, .311 3PT, .563 FT, .611 TS, 20.8 USG, 8.9 BPM

Jr Stats:
Fleming: 31.3 MIN, 14.7 PPG, 8.5 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.5 BLK, .531 FG, .390 3PT, .743 FT, .638 TS, 21.2 USG, 7.7 BPM
Anunoby: N/A

Fleming also has a 9-1.5 standing reach, while OG had a 8-11.5 standing reach. Fleming is a modern day 4, who can play small ball 5, and he's going to be able to switch onto the perimeter. This is such a valuable commodity in the current NBA landscape... with that being said, I don't think he's available at #9.

Fleming's measurements are similar to Queen but has a 4 in better wingspan. So with either one, it's like playing small ball C.

But with Fleming you get shooting on offense, Barnes could be the "hub" guy instead of a C that Darko usually does.

Queen gives you that hub guy buy no shooting and that doesn't fit with Barnes like Fleming would.

Then on defense Fleming can guard the C just as good if not better than Queen but you can also stick him on 4'sand 3's.

I keep thinking if we removed RJ, who would be the perfect NBA fit(superstar aside of course)...and it might be OG. If Fleming could give a bunch of what OG is, it just fits so nice.

But the other side of my brain goes back to...to get a superstar you almost always have to draft a guy who is already great with the ball in his hands. So do you swing big on that.

This draft could go so many ways for us.

[WuTang_CMB]

Fleming fits the mold as a Raptor/Masai type no doubt and I think getting better each year in college shows this FO that the player has a strong work ethic and also in an NIL climate, stayed committed to the program. That bodes well for Fleming.

Question is the ceiling for him.

He had zero creation in college. He was purely off ball. I project him to be a super power role player at the next level. 3 and D guy. If he had some creation in his game and ability to put it on the floor, he's be going much higher - probably where Jonathan Isaac went as they have similar measurements (fleming +3 wingspan and 1 inch shorter).

He says in combine interview that he can put it on the floor and create. I am sure he will be doing well in workouts.

But if this FO feels Bryant is a higher ceiling or a guy like Noa, than I can see them ranking those guys higher.

I'd be fine with all 3

More intel will be coming out in next few weeks

[Dalek]

Combine Measurements:
Fleming: 6'8.25 height, 7'5.25 wingspan, 9.50 hand length, 232.4 lbs
Anunoby: 6'8.75 height, 7'2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length, 232.4 lbs

Soph stats:
Fleming: 26.8 MIN, 10.7 PPG, 7.4 REB, 0.8 AST, 0.8 STL, 1.5 BLK, .528 FG, .324 3PT, .612 FT, .600 TS, 18.9 USG, 4.6 BPM
Anunoby: 25.1 MIN, 11.1 PPG, 5.4 REB, 1.4 AST, 1.3 STL, 1.3 BLK, .557 FG, .311 3PT, .563 FT, .611 TS, 20.8 USG, 8.9 BPM

Jr Stats:
Fleming: 31.3 MIN, 14.7 PPG, 8.5 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.5 BLK, .531 FG, .390 3PT, .743 FT, .638 TS, 21.2 USG, 7.7 BPM
Anunoby: N/A

Not sure where you got Anunoby's measurements from, but I only find his measurements listed as 6'6".25. There's no way he's 2.5" taller than Siakim, who measured 6'8".25.

I fixed it, I took OG in shoes.

I don't get the Fleming/OG comp. OG is a multi-positional defender and more of a wing on offense. Fleming is more of a straight four man with some small ball C. From film I watched, his best defense is as a help defender where he chases blocks. Fleming is like Jared Vanderbilt with better outside shooting.

Personally, I see Cedric Coward as the OG type who can defend 1-3 and some fours while also offering shooting potential. He just lacks the weight that the other players have which to me gives him quickness advantage to stay with guards but prevents him from being able to stop Cs.

Cedric Coward: 6’5 ¼ Height barefoot, 7’2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length 213 lbs
Sr. Stats - 6 games Note: he was a good shooter in previous years.
Coward: 31.3 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.8 STL, 1.7 BLK, .557 FG, .400 3PT, .839 FT, .700 TS, 22.1 USG, 9.3 BPM

I really like Ced Coward but I don't know if he has true star potential to take at 9.

[Syd-TK3]

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As someone who loves Ace I hate that these players keep setting him up like this

[OakleyDokely]

Not sure where you got Anunoby's measurements from, but I only find his measurements listed as 6'6".25. There's no way he's 2.5" taller than Siakim, who measured 6'8".25.

I fixed it, I took OG in shoes.

I don't get the Fleming/OG comp. OG is a multi-positional defender and more of a wing on offense. Fleming is more of a straight four man with some small ball C. From film I watched, his best defense is as a help defender where he chases blocks. Fleming is like Jared Vanderbilt with better outside shooting.

Personally, I see Cedric Coward as the OG type who can defend 1-3 and some fours while also offering shooting potential. He just lacks the weight that the other players have which to me gives him quickness advantage to stay with guards but prevents him from being able to stop Cs.

Cedric Coward: 6’5 ¼ Height barefoot, 7’2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length 213 lbs
Sr. Stats - 6 games Note: he was a good shooter in previous years.
Coward: 31.3 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.8 STL, 1.7 BLK, .557 FG, .400 3PT, .839 FT, .700 TS, 22.1 USG, 9.3 BPM

I really like Ced Coward but I don't know if he has true star potential to take at 9.

I only like OG as a Fleming comp because of similarities in terms of positional versatility defensively, elite size and 3+D potential. I agree that OG is more of a traditional 3/4 and Fleming a 4/5 and they will be used differently.

I like Coward as well, but he's more of a 2/3 in the NBA.

[BoyzNTheHood]

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As someone who loves Ace I hate that these players keep setting him up like this

Yeah, it’s really unfair. He’s not close to as good as TMac. If there’s any TMac coming soon it’s Dybantsa.

[Basketball_Jones]

OG is rare being able to guard 1-5 decently while Fleming more 3-5 he would probably get lit up guarding 1-2. Similar to Mogbo in that sense (Mogbo perhaps better here) but he has way more confidence in his shooting ability we will find out very quickly if his offense will pop in the NBA.

[Syd-TK3]

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As someone who loves Ace I hate that these players keep setting him up like this

Yeah, it’s really unfair. He’s not close to as good as TMac. If there’s any TMac coming soon it’s Dybantsa.

Yeah I haven't really seen enough of AJ but he's clearly the better prospect

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

[OakleyDokely]

Read on Twitter

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As someone who loves Ace I hate that these players keep setting him up like this

Yeah, it’s really unfair. He’s not close to as good as TMac. If there’s any TMac coming soon it’s Dybantsa.

Tmac had elite court vision. He was playing the point as a teenager on the Raps. Ace isn't close to that level.

[Raptors Realtor]

As someone who loves Ace I hate that these players keep setting him up like this

Yeah, it’s really unfair. He’s not close to as good as TMac. If there’s any TMac coming soon it’s Dybantsa.

Tmac had elite court vision. He was playing the point as a teenager on the Raps. Ace isn't close to that level.

Ya I don't understand the comp, Tmac was an above average passer whereas Bailey is always looking for his own shot and is a below average passer.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Yeah, it’s really unfair. He’s not close to as good as TMac. If there’s any TMac coming soon it’s Dybantsa.

Tmac had elite court vision. He was playing the point as a teenager on the Raps. Ace isn't close to that level.

Ya I don't understand the comp, Tmac was an above average passer whereas Bailey is always looking for his own shot and is a below average passer.

They’re probably only referring to scoring, but even then, TMac was a multiple time scoring champ. A 30 ppg scorer in the dead ball era!

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

[JCP11]

Combine Measurements:
Fleming: 6'8.25 height, 7'5.25 wingspan, 9.50 hand length, 232.4 lbs
Anunoby: 6'8.75 height, 7'2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length, 232.4 lbs

Soph stats:
Fleming: 26.8 MIN, 10.7 PPG, 7.4 REB, 0.8 AST, 0.8 STL, 1.5 BLK, .528 FG, .324 3PT, .612 FT, .600 TS, 18.9 USG, 4.6 BPM
Anunoby: 25.1 MIN, 11.1 PPG, 5.4 REB, 1.4 AST, 1.3 STL, 1.3 BLK, .557 FG, .311 3PT, .563 FT, .611 TS, 20.8 USG, 8.9 BPM

Jr Stats:
Fleming: 31.3 MIN, 14.7 PPG, 8.5 REB, 1.3 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.5 BLK, .531 FG, .390 3PT, .743 FT, .638 TS, 21.2 USG, 7.7 BPM
Anunoby: N/A

Fleming also has a 9-1.5 standing reach, while OG had a 8-11.5 standing reach. Fleming is a modern day 4, who can play small ball 5, and he's going to be able to switch onto the perimeter. This is such a valuable commodity in the current NBA landscape... with that being said, I don't think he's available at #9.

I'm sure he will be available at 9, actually I would be surprised if he wasn't. He's a junior and role player right now, usually teams don't draft guys like that in the top 10.

[PhilBlackson]

If Maluach is gone, I'd be very split between Bryant and Fleming.

I think CB has greater offensive upside but Fleming's additional size could just make him as impactful (possibly more) overall. Fleming does just seem like an ideal piece within the rotation. But on the flip side what if Bryant can be somewhat of a 2-way star?!

Maybe not amongst the true elite superstars but what if he ended up being a Jaylen Brown LEVEL (not play style) of player & you passed on him for Fleming who I think is a slightly bigger Eason?! I obviously don't think you'd be disappointed per say BUT I think if you had a bigger Eason, that would certainly make us better...but if you had something like a Brown type of player that puts you into contention (assuming you can further retain a hopefully fairly healthy BI). It's not just that Carter seems like a really smart kid but he also expresses the desire to want to be one of the best players in the league which is just important for me, that the kid actually wants that for themselves, it's what drives the habits, the workouts, the development. I haven't caught anything yet where Fleming has expressed the same.

Fleming seems like a guy who's just ready to play his role which is obv perfectly fine, fantastic to have within your rotation. But I just wonder if that mentality will limit his upside as I think it does Scottie.

For that reason, I VERY, very slightly favour Bryant.

[JCP11]

Not sure where you got Anunoby's measurements from, but I only find his measurements listed as 6'6".25. There's no way he's 2.5" taller than Siakim, who measured 6'8".25.

I fixed it, I took OG in shoes.

I don't get the Fleming/OG comp. OG is a multi-positional defender and more of a wing on offense. Fleming is more of a straight four man with some small ball C. From film I watched, his best defense is as a help defender where he chases blocks. Fleming is like Jared Vanderbilt with better outside shooting.

Personally, I see Cedric Coward as the OG type who can defend 1-3 and some fours while also offering shooting potential. He just lacks the weight that the other players have which to me gives him quickness advantage to stay with guards but prevents him from being able to stop Cs.

Cedric Coward: 6’5 ¼ Height barefoot, 7’2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length 213 lbs
Sr. Stats - 6 games Note: he was a good shooter in previous years.
Coward: 31.3 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.8 STL, 1.7 BLK, .557 FG, .400 3PT, .839 FT, .700 TS, 22.1 USG, 9.3 BPM

I really like Ced Coward but I don't know if he has true star potential to take at 9.

OG was a insane athlete with elite measurements and strength as a sophomore when he got drafted. Coward could only dream to have half of OG athletic gifts. There's no OG in this draft imo.

[DG88]

Siakam was already a slasher/attacker on ball in college. Fleming isn't that guy, he really needs to improve his handles to get to that point. Fleming's more of a 3+D guy, more similar to a guy like OG out of college than Siakam.

Players like Fleming and Bryant just feel like role players, either elite at one thing or are just sound. I just don't see the upside with either player personally.

That's fair but a lot still depends on development because there are/were projected role players who put the work in and turned themselves into allstar level guys. There's value in knowing you're at least getting a NBA rotation player at the bare minimum.

I think the swing picks are guys like Essengue, Fears, Demin who have the profile of potentially elite players if things go right, but a lot could still go wrong and they struggle to even get a 2nd contract.

Sure, I get the development part but I personally don't see skills that showcase that development upside. I see where their games are more refined after developing in the NBA but that's it. I know the OG comp comes up with both Fleming and Bryant. One of the things that you noticed with OG was his first step and explosiveness. His handle was rudimentary but he could get to the basket and attack the rim. You don't see that potential in either player. I think they are great off ball threats and serviceable NBA starters or rotation players.

[DG88]

If Maluach is gone, I'd be very split between Bryant and Fleming.

I think CB has greater offensive upside but Fleming's additional size could just make him as impactful (possibly more) overall. Fleming does just seem like an ideal piece within the rotation. But on the flip side what if Bryant can be somewhat of a 2-way star?!

Maybe not amongst the true elite superstars but what if he ended up being a Jaylen Brown LEVEL (not play style) of player & you passed on him for Fleming who I think is a slightly bigger Eason?! I obviously don't think you'd be disappointed per say BUT I think if you had a bigger Eason, that would certainly make us better...but if you had something like a Brown type of player that puts you into contention (assuming you can further retain a hopefully fairly healthy BI). It's not just that Carter seems like a really smart kid but he also expresses the desire to want to be one of the best players in the league which is just important for me, that the kid actually wants that for themselves, it's what drives the habits, the workouts, the development. I haven't caught anything yet where Fleming has expressed the same.

Fleming seems like a guy who's just ready to play his role which is obv perfectly fine, fantastic to have within your rotation. But I just wonder if that mentality will limit his upside as I think it does Scottie.

For that reason, I VERY, very slightly favour Bryant.

Just an honest question. Where do you see Bryant's offensive upside? I don't see it personally. He barely gets to the rim nor can he can't get past his defender. He shot the 3 well but on low volume. I see the defensive upside it's as clear as day he's going to be a great defender.

[Rapsfan07]

Not sure where you got Anunoby's measurements from, but I only find his measurements listed as 6'6".25. There's no way he's 2.5" taller than Siakim, who measured 6'8".25.

I fixed it, I took OG in shoes.

I don't get the Fleming/OG comp. OG is a multi-positional defender and more of a wing on offense. Fleming is more of a straight four man with some small ball C. From film I watched, his best defense is as a help defender where he chases blocks. Fleming is like Jared Vanderbilt with better outside shooting.

Personally, I see Cedric Coward as the OG type who can defend 1-3 and some fours while also offering shooting potential. He just lacks the weight that the other players have which to me gives him quickness advantage to stay with guards but prevents him from being able to stop Cs.

Cedric Coward: 6’5 ¼ Height barefoot, 7’2.25 wingspan, 9.25 hand length 213 lbs
Sr. Stats - 6 games Note: he was a good shooter in previous years.
Coward: 31.3 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 7 REB, 3.7 AST, 1.8 STL, 1.7 BLK, .557 FG, .400 3PT, .839 FT, .700 TS, 22.1 USG, 9.3 BPM

I really like Ced Coward but I don't know if he has true star potential to take at 9.

Coward is slowly making his way to the top of my board at #9.

Historically, there's almost always a star taken outside of the top 5 and a guy in the top 5 people expect to be good but busts. Outside of Flagg, Edgecombe, Harper and maybe Johnson, I don't see any other potential star players in the draft. So either way, the likelihood of the #9th pick becoming a star, whether in this draft or others, is relatively low.

That said, we don't really need Coward to become a star. I've said this before but if he could become a Desmond Bane/Mikal Bridges, that's extremely good value at #9 and I would consider that a hit.

My only reservation with him is he's only played 6 games this year and we don't know how much of that production he would have been able to sustain if he played more. But as I said earlier, chances of us getting a star there are low anyway. We should take the guys who are the likeliest to produce on both ends of the floor and figure out the rest from there.

Right now, those guys for me are Fleming and Coward, though I like Jak as well.

Trading down and grabbing them both somehow would be a home run but with the unpredictability and relative flatness of the draft in that #6-14 range, I'm not sure it's a risk worth taking.

[Rapsfan07]

If Maluach is gone, I'd be very split between Bryant and Fleming.

I think CB has greater offensive upside but Fleming's additional size could just make him as impactful (possibly more) overall. Fleming does just seem like an ideal piece within the rotation. But on the flip side what if Bryant can be somewhat of a 2-way star?!

Maybe not amongst the true elite superstars but what if he ended up being a Jaylen Brown LEVEL (not play style) of player & you passed on him for Fleming who I think is a slightly bigger Eason?! I obviously don't think you'd be disappointed per say BUT I think if you had a bigger Eason, that would certainly make us better...but if you had something like a Brown type of player that puts you into contention (assuming you can further retain a hopefully fairly healthy BI). It's not just that Carter seems like a really smart kid but he also expresses the desire to want to be one of the best players in the league which is just important for me, that the kid actually wants that for themselves, it's what drives the habits, the workouts, the development. I haven't caught anything yet where Fleming has expressed the same.

Fleming seems like a guy who's just ready to play his role which is obv perfectly fine, fantastic to have within your rotation. But I just wonder if that mentality will limit his upside as I think it does Scottie.

For that reason, I VERY, very slightly favour Bryant.

Just an honest question. Where do you see Bryant's offensive upside? I don't see it personally. He barely gets to the rim nor can he can't get past his defender. He shot the 3 well but on low volume. I see the defensive upside it's as clear as day he's going to be a great defender.

I don't see it with Carter Bryant either.

In the middle of the draft, sure. But I don't see the skills or production that would warrant a lottery pick. I see a lot of Josh Hart there as his potential upside and while Hart isn't garbage, I do think we should have our sights set a little higher than that at #9.