Around The NBA : 2024-25 Season

pipfan · Post #1081 » by **pipfan** » Mon May 19, 2025 5:25 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Lexluthor wrote:Tatum playoff resume is better than his .

Hmmm. Not only has Jokic been much better than Tatum throughout their playoff histories, averaging 27/12/8 as opposed to Tatum's 24/8/5, but Jokic was a Finals MVP, whereas Tatum was mediocre during both his Finals appearances. Plus, they each have the same number of rings.

Another way of putting the matter is that Jokic has a career playoff VORP of 11.6 in 94 games, while Tatum is at 7.7 for 121 games.

I like Tatum a lot and I think he's already done enough to get into the Hall of Fame, but come on-Jokic is an All Time Great, no doubt. The guy has 3 MVP's and 2 2nd place finishes (plus 4th and 9th) in the last seven years. His stats are legendary and he has never played with another all star. Joker has a good chance to crack the top 10 with a few more seasons like this last one.

pipfan · Post #1082 » by **pipfan** » Mon May 19, 2025 5:28 pm

sco wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i would be interested in sniffing around mpj as a distressed asset who you could get a sweetener attached to. worst case scenario you ride out the last two years of his contract; ideally he puts up inflated numbers on a **** team and you can flip him before his deal is up. bonus points if you can send patrick williams the other way in the process

Totally agree. Wouldn't need a sweetener if they took Vuc/Pat in the deal. Would turn 2 guys who I don't want seeing the floor for us into a guy who could be a useful (albeit overpaid) player. As you said, his contract may become tradeable in the following season.

I suggested Ayo/JSmith/PWill just now on the trade board
Would follow it up with Dieng/#24 for Port pick (OKC needs to save $ and roster spots, and pushes a pick down the road)
White/Ball/JCarter
Giddey/Huerter
MPJ/Phillips/Terry
Matas/Dieng
Vuc/Collins
Plus #12 and 24

Looks good to me, and I know at the draft MPJ REALLY wanted to land in Chicago

MrSparkle · Post #1083 » by **MrSparkle** » Mon May 19, 2025 5:33 pm

Lexluthor wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Lexluthor wrote:Tatum playoff resume is better than his .

Hmmm. Not only has Jokic been much better than Tatum throughout their playoff histories, averaging 27/12/8 as opposed to Tatum's 24/8/5, but Jokic was a Finals MVP, whereas Tatum was mediocre during both his Finals appearances. Plus, they each have the same number of rings.

Another way of putting the matter is that Jokic has a career playoff VORP of 11.6 in 94 games, while Tatum is at 7.7 for 121 games.
Tatum wins more period . Is Jokic is like Aaron Rodger’s acouple of mvps and great stats but the teams continue to disappoint in the playoffs . They are both overrated

The funny thing about this hill you’re dying on, is that Jokic and Tatum each have 1 ring, and by definition, winning rings is the definitive measure of winning.

And of course, Bill Russell’s better than Michael Jordan.

sco · Post #1084 » by **sco** » Mon May 19, 2025 6:09 pm

pipfan wrote:
sco wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i would be interested in sniffing around mpj as a distressed asset who you could get a sweetener attached to. worst case scenario you ride out the last two years of his contract; ideally he puts up inflated numbers on a **** team and you can flip him before his deal is up. bonus points if you can send patrick williams the other way in the process

Totally agree. Wouldn't need a sweetener if they took Vuc/Pat in the deal. Would turn 2 guys who I don't want seeing the floor for us into a guy who could be a useful (albeit overpaid) player. As you said, his contract may become tradeable in the following season.

I suggested Ayo/JSmith/PWill just now on the trade board
Would follow it up with Dieng/#24 for Port pick (OKC needs to save $ and roster spots, and pushes a pick down the road)
White/Ball/JCarter
Giddey/Huerter
MPJ/Phillips/Terry
Matas/Dieng
Vuc/Collins
Plus #12 and 24

Looks good to me, and I know at the draft MPJ REALLY wanted to land in Chicago

Like your ideas but for me making all that change and bringing back Vuc for another season just feels wrong. That said, I don't disagree that it would be VERY hard to trade him in reality.

kodo · Post #1085 » by **kodo** » Mon May 19, 2025 7:44 pm

Joker's glowing endorsement on whether Denver can win a championship as currently constructed:
"Well we didn't so obviously we can't."
"We had our opportunities, we didn't win it, so I think we can't."

Somone really isn't happy with his FO.

Post #1086 » by **Michael Jackson** » Mon May 19, 2025 8:58 pm

kodo wrote:Joker's glowing endorsement on whether Denver can win a championship as currently constructed:
"Well we didn't so obviously we can't."
"We had our opportunities, we didn't win it, so I think we can't."

Somone really isn't happy with his FO.

Thats kinda Jokic though he is that way, I don't think he is pouting.

dumbell78 · Post #1087 » by **dumbell78** » Mon May 19, 2025 9:15 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
kodo wrote:Joker's glowing endorsement on whether Denver can win a championship as currently constructed:
"Well we didn't so obviously we can't."
"We had our opportunities, we didn't win it, so I think we can't."

Somone really isn't happy with his FO.

Thats kinda Jokic though he is that way, I don't think he is pouting.

I agree, its more saying "thats a stupid question, we lost." Joker isn't being critical; he's very matter of fact.

Red8911 · Post #1088 » by **Red8911** » Mon May 19, 2025 9:17 pm

Always liked Denver but they did Mike Malone dirty, firing him before the playoffs just so he doesn’t win and then having to keep him. Total disrespect to a coach that helped win them a championship.

Their new coach Adelman isn’t an NBA head coach, they would be wise to get someone better now before things get worse next season for them. They once showed a clip of him talking to the team, it was cringe, and pretty sure no one takes him seriously in that locker room.

AK should start calling Jokic and beg him to ask out of Denver/come to Chicago. Give Denver a lifes worth of picks and give Jokic all of Chicago’s horses to make him happy.

Post #1089 » by **Michael Jackson** » Tue May 20, 2025 12:54 am

Red8911 wrote:Always liked Denver but they did Mike Malone dirty, firing him before the playoffs just so he doesn’t win and then having to keep him. Total disrespect to a coach that helped win them a championship.

Their new coach Adelman isn’t an NBA head coach, they would be wise to get someone better now before things get worse next season for them. They once showed a clip of him talking to the team, it was cringe, and pretty sure no one takes him seriously in that locker room.

AK should start calling Jokic and beg him to ask out of Denver/come to Chicago. Give Denver a lifes worth of picks and give Jokic all of Chicago’s horses to make him happy.

Gotta say Denver and Milwaukee both did that and it really was the wrong choice both times. It is hard to take Adelman seriously in general he just looks non inspiring. Not trying to be mean but he just doesn't have coach persona. That being said I felt that way about Spo and I was dead wrong.

kodo · Post #1090 » by **kodo** » Tue May 20, 2025 3:00 am

Denver is mostly a roster construction problem, but I'm surprised they had no answer to a team just triple teaming Joker like OKC did. OKC literally backed off DEN shooters and dared them to shoot, they were just making sure there was no way Joker was getting the ball. It basically became a 3 point shooting contest for Denver and they're one of the worst 3P producing teams in the league (28th). They seemed totally content to let OKC dictate that Joker only gets 9 shots while Murray gets 16 and Braun gets 14. Heck Westbrook had almost as many shots as Joker.

At a bare minimum, a coaching strategy has to get your best player and one of the best centers in history, a way to get the ball.

Post #1091 » by **Ice Man** » Tue May 20, 2025 3:06 am

dumbell78 wrote:I agree, its more saying "thats a stupid question, we lost." Joker isn't being critical; he's very matter of fact.

Matter of fact in the sense that Joker doesn't think that way ... because the question was entirely sensible. I mean, it's the very first thing that a normal person would consider: Could this team have won if the breaks had done otherwise? Or do we need to do an overhaul? But Jokic is not normal. :wink:

sco · Post #1092 » by **sco** » Tue May 20, 2025 12:56 pm

kodo wrote:Denver is mostly a roster construction problem, but I'm surprised they had no answer to a team just triple teaming Joker like OKC did. OKC literally backed off DEN shooters and dared them to shoot, they were just making sure there was no way Joker was getting the ball. It basically became a 3 point shooting contest for Denver and they're one of the worst 3P producing teams in the league (28th). They seemed totally content to let OKC dictate that Joker only gets 9 shots while Murray gets 16 and Braun gets 14. Heck Westbrook had almost as many shots as Joker.

At a bare minimum, a coaching strategy has to get your best player and one of the best centers in history, a way to get the ball.

I was quite frankly DEN make the series as close as they did. Honestly, they were a healthy Gordon and MPJ (if there is such a thing) away from winning. That said, given all of the stars moving around, they really should try to trade Murray. I doubt anyone gives them anything for MPJ (although I'd be all over Vuc/Pwill for him, but I doubt that qualifies as "anything" in my definition).

Post #1093 » by **Ice Man** » Tue May 20, 2025 4:33 pm

sco wrote:I was quite frankly DEN make the series as close as they did. Honestly, they were a healthy Gordon and MPJ (if there is such a thing) away from winning.

There are two theories for this. One is that OKC isn't that good, despite the 68 wins. The other is that Denver is better than people realize. The next series will show us which belief is correct.

2weekswithpay · Post #1094 » by **2weekswithpay** » Tue May 20, 2025 6:07 pm

Read on Twitter

sco · Post #1095 » by **sco** » Tue May 20, 2025 6:18 pm

2weekswithpay wrote:

Read on Twitter

does the order matter? i.e. was he 6th in the voting?

Post #1096 » by **Ice Man** » Tue May 20, 2025 6:23 pm

sco wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:

Read on Twitter

does the order matter? i.e. was he 6th in the voting?

Don't know about the rookie teams, for in the ROY voting Matas tied with Jared McCain for 7th, each receiving 1 third-place vote. Kel'el Ware was in 6th with 4 third-place votes.

https://apnews.com/sports/nba-e7b4929aac6898f4c4b99e8d0d6d5ee3

dumbell78 · Post #1097 » by **dumbell78** » Wed May 21, 2025 12:18 am

We ever going to get the vote count for MVP? This is getting stupid.

MrSparkle · Post #1098 » by **MrSparkle** » Wed May 21, 2025 2:46 am

Hypothetical: OKC wins the championship... Caruso wins Finals MVP (Iguodala style)... Giddey resigns to a high-dollar deal...

Do we still think Giddey with zero draft compensation was fair?

dumbell78 · Post #1099 » by **dumbell78** » Wed May 21, 2025 5:14 am

MrSparkle wrote:Hypothetical: OKC wins the championship... Caruso wins Finals MVP (Iguodala style)... Giddey resigns to a high-dollar deal...

Do we still think Giddey with zero draft compensation was fair?

I don't need OKC to win it all in order to see that AC had more value and should have commanded more than what we got. AK also waited too long to move on from AC. We frankly should have had a bidding war for AC from a half dozen contenders. AK and his dumb ideas.

Post #1100 » by **Ice Man** » Wed May 21, 2025 11:30 am

MrSparkle wrote:Do we still think Giddey with zero draft compensation was fair?

Well, it depends on the draft pick. I read a report claiming that the Bulls were offered a Top 10 pick in 2024 for Caruso. I find that hard to believe -- a Top 10 pick for a 30 year old bench player. But even so, I wouldn't take that offer. I'd rather have Giddey than any 2024 draft pick.

Then supposedly the Kings were offering a #13 pick plus something else. Again, I'd rather have Giddey than a #13 pick, so unless that something else was special I would say no. And then Dubs were offering Moses Moody plus an FRP. Forget that noise, Moody is just another player and a Warriors' FRP is a late-round pick.