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2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1

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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#261 » by VaDe255 » Wed May 21, 2025 8:13 am

RexBoyWonder wrote:
Spoiler:
VaDe255 wrote:Can Tyler Herro Make the Brunson Leap?
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Broad comparison accross key stats
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Herro vs. Brunson: What the Numbers Say

At first glance, the comparison looks promising. In the 2024-25 season, both Herro and Brunson posted a TS% of 60.5%, and Herro even attempted more total field goals, since he played more games. He also scored more efficiently than Brunson at the rim (62% vs. 61%) and in the midrange (53% vs. 51%). Scoring efficiency and volume is not the issue.

Brunson separates himself in the playmaking department. He posted a 32.1% assist rate to Herro's 26.2%, and his assist to turnover ratio was 2.92 compared to Herro's 2.12. Brunson also drew more fouls (6.9 FTs per game to Herro's 4.2) a sign of advanced foul baiting craft and physical control.

Perhaps most telling: Only 46.1% of Brunson's 3s were assisted, while 75.3% of Herro's were. Brunson generates more of his offense off the dribble, a key trait for playoff caliber lead guards

What Herro Has Going for Him

Herro brings more to the table than he often gets credit for. His efficiency as a scorer is elite and he’s developed into a highly skilled shotmaker across all three levels.

A common knock on Herro is his wingspan, at just over 6'3.25", it’s shorter than his 6'5" frame. But that critique is often overstated, especially when compared to someone like Brunson, who is both shorter in height and has a smaller wingspan, yet has thrived as a primary offensive option.
In reality, wingspan has little impact on offensive effectiveness. It’s something players learn to work around through craft, angles, and quick release mechanics all of which Herro excels at. Where it does show up more meaningfully is on defense, where longer arms help in contests and deflections.

Even then, Herro has shown more defensive viability than Brunson. His defensive LEBRON/EPM consistently are higher than Brunson’s. Suggesting he can at least hold his own on that end while continuing to expand his offensive role.

The Critical Development Areas

Herro made meaningful strides in the second half of the 25 season, particularly in his ability to handle increased on ball responsibility. Herro stepped into a larger playmaking role once Butler was removed.
That said, the leap from secondary scorer to primary offensive engine requires more than flashes, it demands consistency in three key areas:

Playmaking IQ: Herro has shown real progress as a passer, particularly in PnR actions where he can reliably hit pocket passes, find corner shooters, or kick out after drawing multiple defenders. He’s now seeing top coverages: blitzes, traps, and face guarding from elite defenders, something he rarely faced when playing off of Jimmy.

Against that backdrop, his growth is more impressive than it looks on paper. He’s improved at maintaining his dribble under pressure, manipulating ball screens and making quick reads when the first line of defense is compromised. Still, there's room to grow: Herro can sometimes lock into predetermined reads or struggle with second level help, areas where elite initiators thrive.

The difference now isn't his ability to make passes, but how consistently he can generate advantages under focused defensive pressure. To solidify himself as a true lead playmaker, he’ll need to continue refining his live dribble decision making and elevate from a reactive passer to one who dictates how defenses respond.

Foul Drawing and Physicality: Herro’s FT rate remains modest for a player with his usage. While it has improved significantly compared to last season, continued growth in this area will be key to maintaining efficiency and expand his role. The rim pressure is already there, his frequency of drives is in line with what you'd expect from elite guards. The next step is being more decisive and purposeful in how he attacks defenses. That means driving not just to score, but to create contact, collapse help, and generate better outcomes, whether that’s drawing fouls or creating openings for teammates. Greater intent on these drives will not only improve his efficiency but also help him conserve energy by reducing the number of empty, low-impact possessions.

Late-Game Execution: Despite ranking top 10 in the league in minutes played, Herro has not consistently maintained his efficiency or decision making in late game situations. His conditioning isn’t in question, it’s his energy management within games. Improving shot selection and composure in the fourth quarter will be critical if he's to anchor Miami’s offense in high leverage moments.


Herro’s current profile suggests he’s hovering near the edge of that next tier: close enough to see the path, but not firmly on it. To complete the leap from efficient combo guard to reliable primary initiator, he still needs meaningful improvement in decision making, physicality, and late game control.

It’s a high bar and objectively, most players with a similar skill set don’t reach it. But the gaps aren’t unbridgeable. Herro has shown steady progress and now with the opportunity clearly in front of him, he is set up for another leap.

Miami’s Offensive Ceiling Hinges on Herro

Herro has the skill set, sufficient physical tools and most importantly the opportunity. The real question is whether he has the decision making, physicality and late-game execution to truly take over as the engine of a playoff caliber offense in the post Butler era.

Even with KD on the roster, the primary creation and playmaking responsibilities will fall to Herro. Like it or not, Miami is building its offensive identity around him. His ability or inability to make that leap will define the Heat’s ceiling for the next several seasons.


Awesome intelligent post.


Going by my eye test after watching/analyzing BB for a long ass time - Herro is now squeezing 98% of his natural tools/talent level.

I really think it's unfair and unrealistic to expect another major leap at this point. I just hope he can sustain his last regular season.

He never had elite vision/BB IQ. He improved his shot selection and passing, but he's not a natural floor general like the Halliburton's of the world. He's weaker and slower then pretty much every other lead guard in the league. He can't change that.

I give him a lot of credit for reaching the level he already have despite his weaknesses. But the real answer to out offense is NOT trying to squeeze an extra 2% production from Herro, the real answer is to move him to be the second option behind a guy that is more suited to be the main creator. Herro can still be a great scorer, but asking him to also be the main engine of your offense is a recipe for disappointment.

That's why we should try to keep him, but not max him. He's a very good offensive player with legit limitations and thus should make 30Mil and not 50 Mil per.


Thanks, appreciate your input but I see it a bit differently, especially on Herro’s development curve.

Basketball IQ isn’t fixed it grows with reps, film, and experience. In fact, it’s probably the easiest area to improve through focused effort and Herro has already shown real progress, particularly with his shot selection and improved decision making.

He’s not a natural manipulator with elite vision like Luka, Hali, or Trae. Elite vision, the kind that allows players to anticipate rotations and throw skip passes before the help even commits is harder to learn. It’s more instinctual and tied to processing speed. Herro won’t reach those levels and that’s fine, because not every successful lead guard needs to.

Where Herro can compensate is with his elite shooting. He’s a true three level scorer who already demands constant defensive attention and is starting to face blitzes and face guarding as a result. That scoring gravity is a form of creation in itself. He may never be a pass first savant, but he can shape defenses with his scoring threat the same way Brunson does, forcing help, then making simple, effective reads. Brunson doesn’t have elite vision either, but his footwork, balance, and scoring pressure make him a legitimate offensive hub. Herro can follow a similar path.

Physically, no, Herro isn’t explosive and doesn’t have elite burst and I agree he’s near his ceiling in that regard. But the same is true for Luka, Haliburton, Trae, and Brunson. What separates those players is their ability to read the floor, control tempo, and win with craft, areas where Herro has steadily made progress.

He needs to keep sharpening his decision making out of PnRs, improve his ability to manipulate defenders with pacing and hesitation and consistently recognize when to collapse the defense versus when to keep the ball moving. Leaning fully into being a score first initiator, one who forces help with his shooting gravity and then capitalizes with quick, simple reads, this is a realistic and attainable path to high level offensive impact for him.

I’d argue that pushing Herro into a secondary role is the real trap. History shows that if your guard can’t defend at a high level, they need to be a primary offensive engine, not a connector behind someone else. A non defensive guard who isn’t leading your offense becomes a ceiling capper. If you’re going to commit to Herro, you need to go all-in and if he can’t make the leap, then you have to move on. Hedging in the middle isn't the right path in my opinion.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#262 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed May 21, 2025 12:15 pm

I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#263 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed May 21, 2025 12:25 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


VaDe does bring up a good point though. Can you allocate 30% of your cap to an offense only player who gets hunted every play defensively in the playoffs (while not giving much of anything offensively) if you’re going to be using him as a 2nd/3rd option? I’d say no and considering he hasn’t shown the ability to be the main engine of a high level offense in the regular season or playoffs it might be best to sell high (we won’t, we never do). The only bad defenders making that kind of money left in the playoffs are Randle, Brunson, and Towns but at least Randle and Towns have size working for them and Brunson took like $100M less on his last contract or whatever it was to help build the team and is 2-3 tiers above Herro as a player.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#264 » by Kobewade11 » Wed May 21, 2025 12:34 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


I actually believe Herro can be a legitimate second option. What we saw in the playoffs is a team understanding they can sell out on him because our next best scoring option was Davion Mitchell. The question is can we find the guy that can be the 1.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#265 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed May 21, 2025 12:37 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


I actually believe Herro can be a legitimate second option. What we saw in the playoffs is a team understanding they can sell out on him because our next best scoring option was Davion Mitchell. The question is can we find the guy that can be the 1.

That’s fair
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#266 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed May 21, 2025 12:42 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


VaDe does bring up a good point though. Can you allocate 30% of your cap to an offense only player who gets hunted every play defensively in the playoffs (while not giving much of anything offensively) if you’re going to be using him as a 2nd/3rd option? I’d say no and considering he hasn’t shown the ability to be the main engine of a high level offense in the regular season or playoffs it might be best to sell high (we won’t, we never do). The only bad defenders making that kind of money left in the playoffs are Randle, Brunson, and Towns but at least Randle and Towns have size working for them and Brunson took like $100M less on his last contract or whatever it was to help build the team and is 2-3 tiers above Herro as a player.

Curious who we sign to back him up next year. Plenty of solid vets out there in Levert, Bruce Brown, Hardaway Jr, and Kennard. Don’t think Burks is coming back. We will look for a more defensive upgrade.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#267 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed May 21, 2025 12:45 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


VaDe does bring up a good point though. Can you allocate 30% of your cap to an offense only player who gets hunted every play defensively in the playoffs (while not giving much of anything offensively) if you’re going to be using him as a 2nd/3rd option? I’d say no and considering he hasn’t shown the ability to be the main engine of a high level offense in the regular season or playoffs it might be best to sell high (we won’t, we never do). The only bad defenders making that kind of money left in the playoffs are Randle, Brunson, and Towns but at least Randle and Towns have size working for them and Brunson took like $100M less on his last contract or whatever it was to help build the team and is 2-3 tiers above Herro as a player.

Curious who we sign to back him up next year. Plenty of solid vets out there in Levert, Bruce Brown, Hardaway Jr, and Kennard. Don’t think Burks is coming back. We will look for a more defensive upgrade.


Levert would be solid, someone who can actually get a bucket themselves and provide a little playmaking.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#268 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed May 21, 2025 12:46 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
VaDe does bring up a good point though. Can you allocate 30% of your cap to an offense only player who gets hunted every play defensively in the playoffs (while not giving much of anything offensively) if you’re going to be using him as a 2nd/3rd option? I’d say no and considering he hasn’t shown the ability to be the main engine of a high level offense in the regular season or playoffs it might be best to sell high (we won’t, we never do). The only bad defenders making that kind of money left in the playoffs are Randle, Brunson, and Towns but at least Randle and Towns have size working for them and Brunson took like $100M less on his last contract or whatever it was to help build the team and is 2-3 tiers above Herro as a player.

Curious who we sign to back him up next year. Plenty of solid vets out there in Levert, Bruce Brown, Hardaway Jr, and Kennard. Don’t think Burks is coming back. We will look for a more defensive upgrade.


Levert would be solid, someone who can actually get a bucket themselves and provide a little playmaking.

Need to free up the space with that Duncan money to open up the MLE.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#269 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed May 21, 2025 12:50 pm

We can keep trying to pull whatever excuse we can to defend Herro for having a bad playoffs with him being the only player being defended or whatever other nonsense is being tossed around but the fact of the matter is he doesn’t show up in the playoffs regardless of role and hasn’t since his rookie season. He has not shown he can make any sort of impact offensively while he’s a massive detriment defensively, that’s a major concern that needs to be figured out if you’re going to pay him 30% of the cap and it seems like that’s Pats plan. He wasn’t good the last time he was the 2nd option in the playoffs either, maybe that will change with him seemingly improving last season as a player.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#270 » by batterybro42 » Wed May 21, 2025 1:07 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
carnageta wrote:"If Kendrick Nunn asks out of the Shanghai Sharks, it's expected that the Heat will be interested."


I actually think I saw someone suggest we bring in Nunn and Whiteside for depth and we’re being dead serious :lol:


Would Nunn on a minimum deal be a bad thing?


It was me that suggested it and I stand behind that 100% you got guys who are familiar with how we do things here who can still play. Go watch Whiteside play right now in Puerto Rico, he looks like he can still contribute at an NBA level. You don't need him to come in and start, but we do need a big if we are going to continue to play Bam/Ware together particularly in the starting rotation. You need somebody who can carry the 5 spot when Ware goes off the floor. Whiteside I think can contribute in a similar way to winning basketball like Dwight Howard did for the bubble Lakers. It would be much more effective than running slomo at the 5 in those minutes. Whiteside has lost a bit of the athleticism that made him a max contract player here in Miami, but he is absolutely massive right now at an menacing looking 285 pounds. His per 36 numbers never really declined or fell off, people just got tired of dealing with him. He has only ever worked here in Miami, now that you can just pay him the minimum again I don't know why you would not at least bring the guy in for camp, or see what he still can do in summer league.

I think Whiteside still has 2-3 years of valuable play left in him, and when you can get a guy like that at really no cost, the worst risk you run is having to waive him if he becomes an issue.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#271 » by contract » Wed May 21, 2025 1:07 pm

So apparently we've had a superstar on our team all along and didn't know it.
.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#272 » by batterybro42 » Wed May 21, 2025 1:18 pm

Kobewade11 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


I actually believe Herro can be a legitimate second option. What we saw in the playoffs is a team understanding they can sell out on him because our next best scoring option was Davion Mitchell. The question is can we find the guy that can be the 1.


Herro has to still be able to get his when that happens. Herro to me is a cool flow player in the NBA. When the game is at it's normal pace and teams are not applying crazy ball pressure he shines. He is able to score points often in bunches when the game is in its flow state. Once the 4th quarter arrives and teams knuckle down he has a really hard time creating a shot, or doing much of anything. We lost a ton of 4th QTR games last year where team started going full court ball pressure on us, and he had a hard time even getting the ball up past half court sometimes, let along penetrating inside the lane to open up offense.

It is a shame that Bam is such a scared guy when it comes to those moments. He in truth should be bringing the ball up because he has the handle and matchup to do it. He can get to the lane whenever he wants to from the perimeter and create offense. I have no clue why he is not forced to do it. Even Draymond does it, and he is nowhere near the talent that Bam is.

To me it's not that Herro is scared or does not want the ball. I think he just lacks to ability to be a true lead guy, and I do not see that happening. Put Herro with somebody like Ja, SGA, Curry, or Edwards, and I think he can be as good as Klay Thompson ever was on the offensive end, with more 3 level scoring. That's his niche to me, but if they are hoping that suddenly he is going to be a guy that can carry your offense late in game while facing defensive attention, they are going to be pretty disappointed. His handle is not strong enough and he gets moved and steered too easily by legit defenders. Guys like Brunson have a really strong base and center of gravity, you cant move or steer them easily.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#273 » by Kobewade11 » Wed May 21, 2025 1:25 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
Kobewade11 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


I actually believe Herro can be a legitimate second option. What we saw in the playoffs is a team understanding they can sell out on him because our next best scoring option was Davion Mitchell. The question is can we find the guy that can be the 1.


Herro has to still be able to get his when that happens. Herro to me is a cool flow player in the NBA. When the game is at it's normal pace and teams are not applying crazy ball pressure he shines. He is able to score points often in bunches when the game is in its flow state. Once the 4th quarter arrives and teams knuckle down he has a really hard time creating a shot, or doing much of anything. We lost a ton of 4th QTR games last year where team started going full court ball pressure on us, and he had a hard time even getting the ball up past half court sometimes, let along penetrating inside the lane to open up offense.

It is a shame that Bam is such a scared guy when it comes to those moments. He in truth should be bringing the ball up because he has the handle and matchup to do it. He can get to the lane whenever he wants to from the perimeter and create offense. I have no clue why he is not forced to do it. Even Draymond does it, and he is nowhere near the talent that Bam is.

To me it's not that Herro is scared or does not want the ball. I think he just lacks to ability to be a true lead guy, and I do not see that happening. Put Herro with somebody like Ja, SGA, Curry, or Edwards, and I think he can be as good as Klay Thompson ever was on the offensive end, with more 3 level scoring. That's his niche to me, but if they are hoping that suddenly he is going to be a guy that can carry your offense late in game while facing defensive attention, they are going to be pretty disappointed. His handle is not strong enough and he gets moved and steered too easily by legit defenders. Guys like Brunson have a really strong base and center of gravity, you cant move or steer them easily.

Precisely why I say he’s a #2. The number ones are the guys that get theirs no matter what, the superstars. He’s not that, no one on our team is, but still a very good player. Bam ideally slots in as a solid #3.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#274 » by VaDe255 » Wed May 21, 2025 1:56 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I like Herro. Think he’s a nice piece. Don’t think he’s extension worthy this year. Play it out till next year. All this talk from him at the press conference about it being more expensive the following year well then oh well. One thing he’ll never be worthy of is a max contract. At best needs to be paid as a 3rd option. His defense was never supposed to be good. People forget he only has a 6’3 wingspan.


VaDe does bring up a good point though. Can you allocate 30% of your cap to an offense only player who gets hunted every play defensively in the playoffs (while not giving much of anything offensively) if you’re going to be using him as a 2nd/3rd option? I’d say no and considering he hasn’t shown the ability to be the main engine of a high level offense in the regular season or playoffs it might be best to sell high (we won’t, we never do). The only bad defenders making that kind of money left in the playoffs are Randle, Brunson, and Towns but at least Randle and Towns have size working for them and Brunson took like $100M less on his last contract or whatever it was to help build the team and is 2-3 tiers above Herro as a player.


Yes, I totally agree with you on that, just having Herro as your #2 or #3 option on offense, I simply don’t see how that works long term.
He'd be best suited off the bench at that point and he clearly would not accept that kind of role, especially with his salary.

For those bringing up Klay, Herro isn’t that at all. Klay, especially before his injury, was often guarding the opposing team’s best scorer and was a legitimately good perimeter defender. That’s exactly the kind of player you want around superstars, a true 3&D guy who doesn't need the ball to impact the game.

What I absolutely don’t agree with, though, is the idea that the gap between Brunson and Herro is 2–3 tiers. I’d say it’s one tier at most and it’s a gap that can realistically be bridged. At Herro’s age, Brunson wasn’t doing what Herro is doing now. His breakout didn’t come just because he got out from under Luka, it came from a real leap in skill that translated when he got more usage. That kind of growth isn’t exclusive to Brunson specifically.

Also the world isn’t black and white. There’s nuance. Labeling players as #1, #2, #3 or using rigid tier systems often ignores the reality of player development and the different trajectories guys can take. Few just start out as a #1 and a lot of them grow into that role given the right team dynamics and skill development.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#275 » by al bondiga » Wed May 21, 2025 2:11 pm

jeje... The Envy of Herro is palpable... But you do bring some good points posters... he has the biggest basketball iq on the team... Maybe that's his biggest upside And why he made it to the nba... Because we all know his physical attributes are not "elite"

He should grill his IQ to include difdefense because his quicknes to the ball and his explosiveness ...Should be Put to a better use... Maybe then he can become A first option...
Because because he is not... yet?? jeje
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#276 » by carnageta » Wed May 21, 2025 2:15 pm

Herro can be good enough for #2 offensively on a contender.

Ya'll gave up on him last year and were willing to trade him for Gabe Vincent and Max Strus lol.
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#277 » by Vertical Limit » Wed May 21, 2025 2:15 pm

contract wrote:So apparently we've had a superstar on our team all along and didn't know it.

All this stuff reads like Daryl morey type player analysis. Theres no team in the league that thinks herro is that guy.

I dont care what the stats say. I remember Stats were saying Herro was on his way to being the next magic johnson back on his rookie season.. and the media kept doing those comparisons and sayibg magic johnson in the same sentence as herro

Stats dont tell intangibles, IT factor.

Jalen Brunson is on a whole different planet, a whole other universe than Herro.

Herro is not even a second option in my opinion. He would be best suited on a team like the Timberwolves as a third option/guy that can lead the second unit when Ant and Randle are not on the court.

He has got some of the worst handles for a star guard, almost westbrook like with how sloppy he gets with it. He is a very averge finisher at the rim, he is not strong enough to do anything with contact.

Herro reminds me a lot of former Dolphins receiver Brian Hartline. The fickle fans fell in love with him, because we didnt have anyone else for tannehill to throw the ball to. So his targets obviously went up.

But he was also slow for a number 1 receiver, had no breakaway speed, was constantly caught from behind by dbacks. Yeah he got 2 seasons where he barely got over 1000 yards.

The Dolphins knew that production was not sustainable and how weak the receiving core was, they knew he wasnt a long term solution. Hell hartline on those 1000 yard season wouldnt see the field today with Tyreek, Waddle and others that would be in front of him.

So yea, that is Herro. A guy that is getting a lot of run because who else are we going to give the ball.
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carnageta
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#278 » by carnageta » Wed May 21, 2025 2:22 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:We can keep trying to pull whatever excuse we can to defend Herro for having a bad playoffs with him being the only player being defended or whatever other nonsense is being tossed around but the fact of the matter is he doesn’t show up in the playoffs regardless of role and hasn’t since his rookie season. He has not shown he can make any sort of impact offensively while he’s a massive detriment defensively, that’s a major concern that needs to be figured out if you’re going to pay him 30% of the cap and it seems like that’s Pats plan. He wasn’t good the last time he was the 2nd option in the playoffs either, maybe that will change with him seemingly improving last season as a player.


Last time he was #2 in the playoffs was during the 2022 season bro - that was Herro's third year in the league.

In 2023 he got hurt the first game of the playoffs.

In 2024 there was no Jimmy and he was the first option. In 2025 there was no Jimmy and he was the first option.


Having a true #1 scorer on the roster would make all of the difference in the world.
Vertical Limit
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#279 » by Vertical Limit » Wed May 21, 2025 2:30 pm

These were the teams in the Semi rounds this playoffs:

Thunder
Nuggets
Timberwolves
Warriors
Cavaliers
Pacers
Knicks
Celtics


The only team Herro would have been a starter on any of those teams is mybe the Warriors.


And i will even say this, Herro would not play over josh hart on the knicks despite Josh averaging way less than him. Josh has intangibles and is a way better man to man defender than herro is. He would not have gotten cooked by some guy named Ty Jerome. Jerome put the clmps on Herro and he even scored about a hundred a game over Herro.

Herro would come off the bench for all those teams minus the warriors who are weak outside of butler and curry.
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VaDe255
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Re: 2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1 

Post#280 » by VaDe255 » Wed May 21, 2025 2:39 pm

Vertical Limit wrote:
contract wrote:So apparently we've had a superstar on our team all along and didn't know it.

All this stuff reads like Daryl morey type player analysis. Theres no team in the league that thinks herro is that guy.

I dont care what the stats say. I remember Stats were saying Herro was on his way to being the next magic johnson back on his rookie season.. and the media kept doing those comparisons and sayibg magic johnson in the same sentence as herro

Stats dont tell intangibles, IT factor.

Jalen Brunson is on a whole different planet, a whole other universe than Herro.

Herro is not even a second option in my opinion. He would be best suited on a team like the Timberwolves as a third option/guy that can lead the second unit when Ant and Randle are not on the court.

He has got some of the worst handles for a star guard, almost westbrook like with how sloppy he gets with it. He is a very averge finisher at the rim, he is not strong enough to do anything with contact.

Herro reminds me a lot of former Dolphins receiver Brian Hartline. The fickle fans fell in love with him, because we didnt have anyone else for tannehill to throw the ball to. So his targets obviously went up.

But he was also slow for a number 1 receiver, had no breakaway speed, was constantly caught from behind by dbacks. Yeah he got 2 seasons where he barely got over 1000 yards.

The Dolphins knew that production was not sustainable and how weak the receiving core was, they knew he wasnt a long term solution. Hell hartline on those 1000 yard season wouldnt see the field today with Tyreek, Waddle and others that would be in front of him.

So yea, that is Herro. A guy that is getting a lot of run because who else are we going to give the ball.


Nobody's calling Herro a superstar but completely writing him off feels incredibly short sighted. If we judged every 25y based on what they haven’t done yet, most of today’s stars would’ve been dismissed too early.

Are we just ignoring what Brunson was at Herro’s age?
He averaged 16 PPG, 4.8 AST, 3.9 REB in 32 minutes, does that scream “future #1 option” to you?

Stats aren’t everything, but they’re not meaningless either. The whole "intangibles" or "IT factor" argument is just a vague way to sidestep real analysis. And saying “no team sees Herro as that guy”, well I got news for you, the Heat apparently do.

Herro has flaws, no doubt but comparing him to Brian Hartline because he doesn’t look the part to you is like calling Devin Booker a role player in 2018. It’s not insight, it’s hindsight waiting to be wrong.

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