The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[lilfishi22]

Yeah, I think that we need to get Vassell + #14 + Keldon Johnson (or Barnes) AND 3 Unprotected FRPs.

I think they can give us those picks because they have multiple FRPs + their own picks (for example one via Atlanta, other via Dallas) so it's a luxury that they have and they need to consolidate those assets into players now.

If we accept not getting Castle or Harper they need to accept to give us those future picks. With KD signing his extension with them they will be contenders for years to come.

So you want 4 picks, Vassel, Keldon and salary for KD? You should consider yourself lucky to walk away with half of those picks. That offer is closer to what you'll expect for Book, not a 37yo KD

I want Vassell, Harrison Barnes, #14 and 3 unprotected future picks.

The Spurs with Wemby + Castle + Harper + Fox can be great for years to come because they are too young SO their future FRPs can be in the late twenties most of the time.

It's not crazy because they need someone as great as KD at SF/PF to put him at the top. If they want Anteto or even Jaylen Brown the asking price would be much higher (Harper or Castle in the package for sure) so this way they can have all their impactful players + KD.

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

[BobbieL]

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG.

FVV was the backup to Kyle Lowry on that Raptors championship squad.

The Rockets have not extended him yet so clearly they are open to move him, their core is Sengun and Amen Thompson with a young supporter cast of Green, Whitmore, Jabari Smith and Tari Eason all under the age of 25, FVV doesn't fit their timeline.

You bring up a good point - why would the Rockets want an older Durant that doesn't fit the timeline. Why wouldn't they just keep building something with the core group. Granted, for two years, Durant would be a solid fit as they lost to the Warriors partly because they had a terrible half court offense

[Slim Charless]

Well, they will have KD to lead them!

I wonder if CP3 would entertain the idea of going back to the Rockets if KD is there.

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Jalen Green
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Amen Thompson
C: Alperen Sengun

Looks good on paper for a starting squad.

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG. A move that makes sense there will have to involve Brooks as he is redundant with Amen there. So like Brooks/Jabari/Green and our picks. I would even include our #29 to balance out the 3 picks we are getting back from him and might fine with letting them the swap they have as well. Green, I would then try and send to Dallas as they have too many bigs and nothing in the backcourt. We can probably get Gafford/Klay and a future pick from them.

Rockets will trade FVV to make salary work. He's too expensive at the PG position and not being a star.

They can sign veteran PGs for vet minimum and also give their young guys minutes. The critical role for their PG would be defense and FVV is not the most athletic or longest player to achieve that.

They trade for KD, and they don't care about their young players as much. You really think Ime wants to into a 2 year KD window with DLo and Reed backing him up? There's no way. They trade for KD, they have to keep FVV. He is a steady vet presence that can be trusted. They'll still have Eason, Reed and Whitmore as far as kids-but off the bench.

They'll move Brooks if they go for KD. For Giannis its different as they'll have to move Sengun but even then FVV stays.

[Slim Charless]

So you want 4 picks, Vassel, Keldon and salary for KD? You should consider yourself lucky to walk away with half of those picks. That offer is closer to what you'll expect for Book, not a 37yo KD

I want Vassell, Harrison Barnes, #14 and 3 unprotected future picks.

The Spurs with Wemby + Castle + Harper + Fox can be great for years to come because they are too young SO their future FRPs can be in the late twenties most of the time.

It's not crazy because they need someone as great as KD at SF/PF to put him at the top. If they want Anteto or even Jaylen Brown the asking price would be much higher (Harper or Castle in the package for sure) so this way they can have all their impactful players + KD.

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

[mkot]

You bring up a good point - why would the Rockets want an older Durant that doesn't fit the timeline. Why wouldn't they just keep building something with the core group. Granted, for two years, Durant would be a solid fit as they lost to the Warriors partly because they had a terrible half court offense

If a young team like Houston or even Wolves want KD, they are not getting him as part of their core piece, they are looking to add a veteran presence to mentor their young players and help build the team up to the championship level. KD even at this age is still an elite scorer, so adding him to teams that struggle on the offensive end is going to be valuable. If KD can help one of the worse clutch team (the Wolves) in the regular season to win some of those close games, and help elevate Edwards to get some consideration for MVP candidate, I think it's definitely worth a look. Teams like the Rockets and the Wolves are not in win NOW mode, their core are super young, they need veteran leadership to show them the way.

Although there's huge question on KD's leadership skills, but again he gets bucket!

The difficult part has always been the cost of getting KD. Truth be told his numbers doesn't necessary impact winnings anymore so teams would really hesitate giving up valuable assets to get him.

[BobbieL]

I want Vassell, Harrison Barnes, #14 and 3 unprotected future picks.

The Spurs with Wemby + Castle + Harper + Fox can be great for years to come because they are too young SO their future FRPs can be in the late twenties most of the time.

It's not crazy because they need someone as great as KD at SF/PF to put him at the top. If they want Anteto or even Jaylen Brown the asking price would be much higher (Harper or Castle in the package for sure) so this way they can have all their impactful players + KD.

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

Suns probably are taking on Johnson and Barnes with Sochan in your trade - if that is your trade - is that correct?

[Blonde]

Unless the Spurs get desperate for KD I don’t think they’re a good trade partner. They want him for pennies on the dollar and a mid first in a bad draft. Same can be said for Houston. Both teams have all the assets we could want but aren’t desperate enough to offer them up. Find the desperate teams.

[lilfishi22]

I want Vassell, Harrison Barnes, #14 and 3 unprotected future picks.

The Spurs with Wemby + Castle + Harper + Fox can be great for years to come because they are too young SO their future FRPs can be in the late twenties most of the time.

It's not crazy because they need someone as great as KD at SF/PF to put him at the top. If they want Anteto or even Jaylen Brown the asking price would be much higher (Harper or Castle in the package for sure) so this way they can have all their impactful players + KD.

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

To make it simple, I would overpay for Giannis and I would also pay fair value for KD. In both cases, I think you're getting good value for what you give up. That's on them to decide which way they want to go but I see value in either paths. The only thing I wouldn't do overpaying for KD as Sabre seems to suggest.

Fit is a different calculus. You're right, Giannis probably isn't as good of a fit next to Wemby as KD but I also think from the perspective of personality, leadership, be that guy to take physical pressure off Wemby and the ability to do a bunch of other things like defend and rebound at DPOY level, I much would rather have Giannis and I would be willing to pay top dollar for Giannis. Given Wemby takes almost 9 3PA's, I think they'll work out how to play with each other.

[lilfishi22]

Trading FVV makes 0 sense if they are trying to win now as he knows Ime's system and has won a ring as a starting PG.

FVV was the backup to Kyle Lowry on that Raptors championship squad.

The Rockets have not extended him yet so clearly they are open to move him, their core is Sengun and Amen Thompson with a young supporter cast of Green, Whitmore, Jabari Smith and Tari Eason all under the age of 25, FVV doesn't fit their timeline.

You bring up a good point - why would the Rockets want an older Durant that doesn't fit the timeline. Why wouldn't they just keep building something with the core group. Granted, for two years, Durant would be a solid fit as they lost to the Warriors partly because they had a terrible half court offense

I think the argument is that while their core is in their early to mid-20's, they also just won 50 games and barely lost to a very savvy veteran team with championship pedigree. Last season they won 19 more games than the season before and this season they improved by another 9wins. They are poised for a breakout and if they can get a guy like KD for something reasonable, they could reach another level while still developing the young guys that are still around.

[Slim Charless]

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

To make it simple, I would overpay for Giannis and I would also pay fair value for KD. In both cases, I think you're getting good value for what you give up. That's on them to decide which way they want to go but I see value in either paths. The only thing I wouldn't do overpaying for KD as Sabre seems to suggest.

Fit is a different calculus. You're right, Giannis probably isn't as good of a fit next to Wemby as KD but I also think from the perspective of personality, leadership, be that guy to take physical pressure off Wemby and the ability to do a bunch of other things like defend and rebound at DPOY level, I much would rather have Giannis and I would be willing to pay top dollar for Giannis. Given Wemby takes almost 9 3PA's, I think they'll work out how to play with each other.

Overpay in what sense? That doesn't exactly answer the question....

In the situation I put forth. Which of those trades seems better to you as a Spurs GM?

[Slim Charless]

I want that and Cooper Flagg too but that's not going to happen. Having an excess of future FRPs is not a license to just callously use them. Why give us 4 picks for KD when 2 is enough and you still have another 2 for other trades?

At best, I see us walking walking away with one young guy with some potential still and 2 FRPs plus salary. I just don't see us getting 4 picks in this deal. And you're right, the cost to get Giannis is more but at least with him, you have longevity. With KD you have maybe 2 years at this elite level. It makes sense to overpay for Giannis than for KD.

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

Suns probably are taking on Johnson and Barnes with Sochan in your trade - if that is your trade - is that correct?

It would depend on the ATL pick.

I need to check and see what the best one is, because that's the one I want. If its a subpar one then I might wanna switch out Vassel for Johnson.

[KdoubleDees23]

Give me Westbrook for the vet minimum!!! I will take that in a heart beat

[lilfishi22]

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

To make it simple, I would overpay for Giannis and I would also pay fair value for KD. In both cases, I think you're getting good value for what you give up. That's on them to decide which way they want to go but I see value in either paths. The only thing I wouldn't do overpaying for KD as Sabre seems to suggest.

Fit is a different calculus. You're right, Giannis probably isn't as good of a fit next to Wemby as KD but I also think from the perspective of personality, leadership, be that guy to take physical pressure off Wemby and the ability to do a bunch of other things like defend and rebound at DPOY level, I much would rather have Giannis and I would be willing to pay top dollar for Giannis. Given Wemby takes almost 9 3PA's, I think they'll work out how to play with each other.

Overpay in what sense? That doesn't exactly answer the question....

In the situation I put forth. Which of those trades seems better to you as a Spurs GM?

Getting the better talent with more longevity. #14, ATL pick and Sochan might buy them 2 good years of KD...and then what. #2, #14, Castle and some ATL picks will get you at the very least 3 years of Giannis giving you basically 30/12 for 68ish games a season.

[sunsbg]

The worst is this offseason feels like those transition periods where the team is neither young to give you hope for the future, nor a contender, e.g. the Warrick, Hedo, Bledsoe times, most boring for a fan.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Not bad for Dunn! Definitely knew he was going to be a special defensive talent for us!

[sunsbg]

Not bad for Dunn! Definitely knew he was going to be a special defensive talent for us!

If he improves offensively and FO somehow hits on those late 1st rnd and 2nd rnd picks then what I wrote above may not be true, but long shot with late picks. Dunn is more the exception and he still needs a lot of improvement to become an undisputable starter on a winning team.

[Frank Lee]

Unless the Spurs get desperate for KD I don’t think they’re a good trade partner. They want him for pennies on the dollar and a mid first in a bad draft. Same can be said for Houston. Both teams have all the assets we could want but aren’t desperate enough to offer them up. Find the desperate teams.

Good point here. Most of the KD wonder trades are created from a ‘what can we get’ prospective. Looks to me, many of these teams don’t really need him. The up and coming squads have their timelines with talent and contracts in place. It is the declining teams with small windows of chance like GState and Miami (and us) that really could use KD.

If anything, teams should look at the disruption of progress KD has caused. No way any team with a young core should gut themselves of talent and picks to acquire him. We are the blue print of that. All or nothing has but two endings.

Furthermore, take these trades for KD and apply them towards other players…. For example….What could Houston get for Green Plus two likely lotto picks elsewhere? There is going to be a lot of movement via trades in the coming months. Would not be surprised to see us on the out looking in. Yay Mat.

PS… it can be argued that we are the desperate team

[ChuckS]

You bring up a good point - why would the Rockets want an older Durant that doesn't fit the timeline. Why wouldn't they just keep building something with the core group. Granted, for two years, Durant would be a solid fit as they lost to the Warriors partly because they had a terrible half court offense

If a young team like Houston or even Wolves want KD, they are not getting him as part of their core piece, they are looking to add a veteran presence to mentor their young players and help build the team up to the championship level. KD even at this age is still an elite scorer, so adding him to teams that struggle on the offensive end is going to be valuable. If KD can help one of the worse clutch team (the Wolves) in the regular season to win some of those close games, and help elevate Edwards to get some consideration for MVP candidate, I think it's definitely worth a look. Teams like the Rockets and the Wolves are not in win NOW mode, their core are super young, they need veteran leadership to show them the way.

Although there's huge question on KD's leadership skills, but again he gets bucket!

The difficult part has always been the cost of getting KD. Truth be told his numbers doesn't necessary impact winnings anymore so teams would really hesitate giving up valuable assets to get him.

Your post, at least the first paragraph, is pretty much right on. The realities of KD's age and longevity are fairly obvious. But I do have minor disagreements.

I think any doubts about the leadership of such a generational talent is pretty much limited to some fans, and not knowledgeable NBAers. I question whether his many important MVPs would have been possible with limited leadership skills. How many have had a league MVP and at least 3 runners up, two finals MVPs, an Olympic MVP, a World Games MVP, and even two all star MVPs. None of these IMO would be possible without leading a team to some degree of success. In most of these instances I contend to ultimate success.

And while it is true that age usually impacts winning, the strange thing is his numbers are substantially similar, and some even better, than during his more prime years. His scoring average with Brooklyn was higher than in his earlier years with GSW and OKC, and his efficiency significantly better. And those after a career threatening injury. Even here he has been more efficient and with only four tenths of a point less scoring than he had with OKC. As I mentioned in a previous post, I cannot understand how fans can blame him and Book because this team sucks. The real reason(s) seem so obvious to me. Great, talents like Jokic, Doncic, Giannis, Embid, etc, on better teams, will not win a title this year. But we blame our best for this mess when the team hasn't won a championship in almost six decades, even with a few other good talents.

On an unrelated matter, the general opinion is that Ishbia is and has been stupid. And I cannot say that I thought it wise to rid all but Booker from a good team. But our onboard experts are already excited about our substantial financial improvement when Beal's contract expires in 2027. Shouldn't we realize that even if we get nothing for KD we will benefit the same after next year?

[KdoubleDees23]

TBH - I dont think any team will be desperate for KD. I think the best we get is an overpaid contract + Filler, and a pick. That is about it

[BobbieL]

Depends on the cost.

Would you rather give up #2, #14, Castle, all those ATL picks and maybe be forced to also take Kuzma in the deal OR would you rather pay #14, Sochan and 1 ATL pick?

Case seems pretty easy to me esp as Wemby and Giannis occupy the same space somewhat while KD can fit any system and provide MASSIVE spacing on a team that will need as Fox can't shoot nor can Castle, at least the level needed to win a title.

Suns probably are taking on Johnson and Barnes with Sochan in your trade - if that is your trade - is that correct?

It would depend on the ATL pick.

I need to check and see what the best one is, because that's the one I want. If its a subpar one then I might wanna switch out Vassel for Johnson.

Vassell really doesn't make sense if you still have Beal on the roster. That would be like $135m at shooting guard. And even if you move on from Beal - that is a lot of money for a back up 2G

I think the other deal makes more sense -- Sochan, the expirings and draft picks.