OT - Pascal is the First Scoring Option on a Contender - Apologize To Pascal

[Raps in 4]

I really don't understand the arguments about Siakam in here or people saying "Look what Siakam is doing you all were wrong about him"...

You're doing it wrong. You have to pretend that Tyrese Haliburton doesn't play for the Pacers and that the offence actually runs through Siakam. Then all of sudden, this thread will make sense.

[Spates]

What a glazefest. And coming from a chorus of people with consistently terrible takes on Pascal. The Pacers run hasn't unveiled anything new about Pascal if you've been paying attention.

He has always been an superb finisher that thrives playing behind an elite lead guard who pushes pace. Lowry/Haliburton.

While on Toronto post-bubble he was a victim of poor roster construction, having too long of a leash, and contract year FVV.

Pascal's ideal is being a moderate to high touches, low time of possessions player, who can create their own shot from the middle of the floor. It's what it was during our title run and Indy is following the mold.

What's amusing is that Darko was tinkering with utilizing Pascal in this fashion and there was a heinous uproar. He was putting our best player in the positions for him to thrive and people wanted him fired. Funny how it's so different with Carlisle.

People completely forget how great Darko had Pascal playing. He had a slow first few games but finished the last 32 games averaging 24/5 on 61.5 TS%

yeah, but the problem: You have OG|Barnes|Pascal| Yak and you cannot defend anything ?! Looking totally lost on defense.
That was the fireable "offense" right there!..with a record of 12 and 19 while they were athletically superior than most teams, if not all.
With all the length, those 4 looked amazing on paper. The smart (and lucky) Pacers wanted both OG and Pascal for a reason.

Reminder about Pascal, during the last 2 months of that 48-win season, he played closely to MVP-Level ,with FVV missing games, playing alongside Scottie, Precious and some OG. I have not seen him reach that level since then again.

Reply to someone else with your hyperbole. I can't bother with trolls

[ash_k]

People completely forget how great Darko had Pascal playing. He had a slow first few games but finished the last 32 games averaging 24/5 on 61.5 TS%

yeah, but the problem: You have OG|Barnes|Pascal| Yak and you cannot defend anything ?! Looking totally lost on defense.
That was the fireable "offense" right there!..with a record of 12 and 19 while they were athletically superior than most teams, if not all.
With all the length, those 4 looked amazing on paper. The smart (and lucky) Pacers wanted both OG and Pascal for a reason.

Reminder about Pascal, during the last 2 months of that 48-win season, he played closely to MVP-Level ,with FVV missing games, playing alongside Scottie, Precious and some OG. I have not seen him reach that level since then again.

Reply to someone else with your hyperbole. I can't bother with trolls

Cute

[nikster]

What a glazefest. And coming from a chorus of people with consistently terrible takes on Pascal. The Pacers run hasn't unveiled anything new about Pascal if you've been paying attention.

He has always been an superb finisher that thrives playing behind an elite lead guard who pushes pace. Lowry/Haliburton.

While on Toronto post-bubble he was a victim of poor roster construction, having too long of a leash, and contract year FVV.

Pascal's ideal is being a moderate to high touches, low time of possessions player, who can create their own shot from the middle of the floor. It's what it was during our title run and Indy is following the mold.

What's amusing is that Darko was tinkering with utilizing Pascal in this fashion and there was a heinous uproar. He was putting our best player in the positions for him to thrive and people wanted him fired. Funny how it's so different with Carlisle.

People completely forget how great Darko had Pascal playing. He had a slow first few games but finished the last 32 games averaging 24/5 on 61.5 TS%

yeah, but the problem: You have OG|Barnes|Pascal| Yak and you cannot defend anything ?! Looking totally lost on defense.
That was the fireable "offense" right there!..with a record of 12 and 19 while they were athletically superior than most teams, if not all.
With all the length, those 4 looked amazing on paper. The smart (and lucky) Pacers wanted both OG and Pascal for a reason.

Reminder about Pascal, during the last 2 months of that 48-win season, he played closely to MVP-Level ,with FVV missing games, playing alongside Scottie, Precious and some OG. I have not seen him reach that level since then again.

It was a transition period for a new coach that was completely revamping both offense and defense. We had a pretty tough schedule to start. And those 4 were great but the drop off there was big. Schroder is not a starting caliber PG, and he was a terrible fit with that lineup. The bench was bad too with GTJ and Boucher being the only NBA caliber players in the rotation. And our defense was 16th overall after those 31 games, hardly "can't defend anything"

Firing a new coach after those 30 games would be a complete over reaction

[ash_k]

People completely forget how great Darko had Pascal playing. He had a slow first few games but finished the last 32 games averaging 24/5 on 61.5 TS%

yeah, but the problem: You have OG|Barnes|Pascal| Yak and you cannot defend anything ?! Looking totally lost on defense.
That was the fireable "offense" right there!..with a record of 12 and 19 while they were athletically superior than most teams, if not all.
With all the length, those 4 looked amazing on paper. The smart (and lucky) Pacers wanted both OG and Pascal for a reason.

Reminder about Pascal, during the last 2 months of that 48-win season, he played closely to MVP-Level ,with FVV missing games, playing alongside Scottie, Precious and some OG. I have not seen him reach that level since then again.

It was a transition period for a new coach that was completely revamping both offense and defense. We had a pretty tough schedule to start. And those 4 were great but the drop off there was big. Schroder is not a starting caliber PG, and he was a terrible fit with that lineup. The bench was bad too with GTJ and Boucher being the only NBA caliber players in the rotation. And our defense was 16th overall after those 31 games, hardly "can't defend anything"

Firing a new coach after those 30 games would be a complete over reaction

Obviously Masai was not going to fire his new guy, his first true coach hire, after 30 games, for many reasons, despite the team clearly underperforming.
But the problems were no sign of defensive principles, despite having a training camp and a list of players vastly underperforming while on contract year for some and all that was on the poor coaching.... then you saw OG& Pascal on new teams turning them into contenders without a transition

[nikster]

yeah, but the problem: You have OG|Barnes|Pascal| Yak and you cannot defend anything ?! Looking totally lost on defense.
That was the fireable "offense" right there!..with a record of 12 and 19 while they were athletically superior than most teams, if not all.
With all the length, those 4 looked amazing on paper. The smart (and lucky) Pacers wanted both OG and Pascal for a reason.

Reminder about Pascal, during the last 2 months of that 48-win season, he played closely to MVP-Level ,with FVV missing games, playing alongside Scottie, Precious and some OG. I have not seen him reach that level since then again.

It was a transition period for a new coach that was completely revamping both offense and defense. We had a pretty tough schedule to start. And those 4 were great but the drop off there was big. Schroder is not a starting caliber PG, and he was a terrible fit with that lineup. The bench was bad too with GTJ and Boucher being the only NBA caliber players in the rotation. And our defense was 16th overall after those 31 games, hardly "can't defend anything"

Firing a new coach after those 30 games would be a complete over reaction

Obviously Masai was not going to fire his new guy, his first true coach hire, after 30 games, for many reasons, despite the team clearly underperforming.
But the problems were no sign of defensive principles, despite having a training camp and a list of players vastly underperforming while on contract year for some and all that was on the poor coaching.... then you saw OG& Pascal on new teams turning them into contenders without a transition

Pacers were 24-17 prior to the trade and went 500 their first 20 games after so there was a bit of a transition. But I wonder why it's easier for a team with an established identity, an all star playmaker, and good 3 point shooting to incorporate Pascal, than a team that just replaced its lead playmaker and only PG with Schroder and had some of the worst spacing in the league.

Must be the coaches fault

[Syd-TK3]

17 pages on a topic that isn't even true lol

[HumbleRen]

It was a transition period for a new coach that was completely revamping both offense and defense. We had a pretty tough schedule to start. And those 4 were great but the drop off there was big. Schroder is not a starting caliber PG, and he was a terrible fit with that lineup. The bench was bad too with GTJ and Boucher being the only NBA caliber players in the rotation. And our defense was 16th overall after those 31 games, hardly "can't defend anything"

Firing a new coach after those 30 games would be a complete over reaction

Obviously Masai was not going to fire his new guy, his first true coach hire, after 30 games, for many reasons, despite the team clearly underperforming.
But the problems were no sign of defensive principles, despite having a training camp and a list of players vastly underperforming while on contract year for some and all that was on the poor coaching.... then you saw OG& Pascal on new teams turning them into contenders without a transition

Pacers were 24-17 prior to the trade and went 500 their first 20 games after so there was a bit of a transition. But I wonder why it's easier for a team with an established identity, an all star playmaker, and good 3 point shooting to incorporate Pascal, than a team that just replaced its lead playmaker and only PG with Schroder and had some of the worst spacing in the league.

Must be the coaches fault

He’s unable to explain why a team who’s leading scorers was Haliburton and Buddy Hield was able to win more games than a team led by Siakam, OG, Scottie and Poeltl lol.

[NinjaBro]

17 pages on a topic that isn't even true lol

17 pages and not one apology to Siakam.

[metafisical]

Pascal won a championship with us. That's enough..

[Mikistan]

Obviously Masai was not going to fire his new guy, his first true coach hire, after 30 games, for many reasons, despite the team clearly underperforming.
But the problems were no sign of defensive principles, despite having a training camp and a list of players vastly underperforming while on contract year for some and all that was on the poor coaching.... then you saw OG& Pascal on new teams turning them into contenders without a transition

Pacers were 24-17 prior to the trade and went 500 their first 20 games after so there was a bit of a transition. But I wonder why it's easier for a team with an established identity, an all star playmaker, and good 3 point shooting to incorporate Pascal, than a team that just replaced its lead playmaker and only PG with Schroder and had some of the worst spacing in the league.

Must be the coaches fault

He’s unable to explain why a team who’s leading scorers was Haliburton and Buddy Hield was able to win more games than a team led by Siakam, OG, Scottie and Poeltl lol.

Was it because Fred was the real leader

[tecumseh18]

Pacers were 24-17 prior to the trade and went 500 their first 20 games after so there was a bit of a transition. But I wonder why it's easier for a team with an established identity, an all star playmaker, and good 3 point shooting to incorporate Pascal, than a team that just replaced its lead playmaker and only PG with Schroder and had some of the worst spacing in the league.

Must be the coaches fault

He’s unable to explain why a team who’s leading scorers was Haliburton and Buddy Hield was able to win more games than a team led by Siakam, OG, Scottie and Poeltl lol.

Was it because Fred was the real leader

The odd thing was that in the 2021-22 season after the ASB, Raptors seemed better without Fred in the lineup - although admittedly he was playing hurt most of that season. The comeback against the Sixers in the playoffs was without Fred. We ultimately lost that series because Scottie was playing hurt (and has been limping ever since), no because of Fred's season-ending injury.

That's why I didn't want to overpay Fred to return, let alone vastly overpay him to return. Not sure what the team was thinking.

[JustLucky]

I dont see the point of this thread he was not going to the nba finals here

[ash_k]

It was a transition period for a new coach that was completely revamping both offense and defense. We had a pretty tough schedule to start. And those 4 were great but the drop off there was big. Schroder is not a starting caliber PG, and he was a terrible fit with that lineup. The bench was bad too with GTJ and Boucher being the only NBA caliber players in the rotation. And our defense was 16th overall after those 31 games, hardly "can't defend anything"

Firing a new coach after those 30 games would be a complete over reaction

Obviously Masai was not going to fire his new guy, his first true coach hire, after 30 games, for many reasons, despite the team clearly underperforming.
But the problems were no sign of defensive principles, despite having a training camp and a list of players vastly underperforming while on contract year for some and all that was on the poor coaching.... then you saw OG& Pascal on new teams turning them into contenders without a transition

Pacers were 24-17 prior to the trade and went 500 their first 20 games after so there was a bit of a transition. But I wonder why it's easier for a team with an established identity, an all star playmaker, and good 3 point shooting to incorporate Pascal, than a team that just replaced its lead playmaker and only PG with Schroder and had some of the worst spacing in the league.

Must be the coaches fault

You saw it with your eyes(or maybe you didn't), the team underperforming, players looking at their worst. The team losing at home against some of worst teams despite having players that had performed at a much higher level in prior year ..the team unable to play any defense despite having lengthy defenders (Barnes, OG) and Siakam and Poeltl.
It has always been on the coach in the NBA no breaking news here

[nikster]

He’s unable to explain why a team who’s leading scorers was Haliburton and Buddy Hield was able to win more games than a team led by Siakam, OG, Scottie and Poeltl lol.

Was it because Fred was the real leader

The odd thing was that in the 2021-22 season after the ASB, Raptors seemed better without Fred in the lineup - although admittedly he was playing hurt most of that season. The comeback against the Sixers in the playoffs was without Fred. We ultimately lost that series because Scottie was playing hurt (and has been limping ever since), no because of Fred's season-ending injury.

That's why I didn't want to overpay Fred to return, let alone vastly overpay him to return. Not sure what the team was thinking.

You said it yourself. Before the break he averaged 21/7 on 57TS% while playing good defense and made the all star break, and was behind only Pascal in net rating. That's what the FO saw in him. Then he was playing hurt the rest of the way.

They saw an even better version of the same player that the Rockets did, when he completely turned around their season and led the team on on/off

[ATLTimekeeper]

You’re avoiding the question. You might be the only person in the world who thinks this Pacers team isn’t deep lol.

Siakam is playing 33 mins per game in these playoffs. That’s how deep this team is lol, the 2nd best player on the team doesn’t even have to be top 2 in minutes played for them to win these games.

You said, 'deepest team we've seen in years.' Just answer my question first and then we can get to the Pacers.

“Some of the deepest teams in years”.

I know selective reading is a pandemic nowadays but let’s not twist words to fit narratives.

Pacers are objectively one of the deepest teams we’ve seen in a while. There’s a reason why Rick plays a 10 man rotation in the PLAYOFFS. That’s not normal lol.

Including the champs last year or pretty much every team that makes the conference finals. Rick splitting 10 minutes between Tony Bradley and Thomas Bryant does not make them a deep team.

How many future all-stars are on these Pacers?

[ATLTimekeeper]

What a glazefest. And coming from a chorus of people with consistently terrible takes on Pascal. The Pacers run hasn't unveiled anything new about Pascal if you've been paying attention.

He has always been an superb finisher that thrives playing behind an elite lead guard who pushes pace. Lowry/Haliburton.

While on Toronto post-bubble he was a victim of poor roster construction, having too long of a leash, and contract year FVV.

Pascal's ideal is being a moderate to high touches, low time of possessions player, who can create their own shot from the middle of the floor. It's what it was during our title run and Indy is following the mold.

What's amusing is that Darko was tinkering with utilizing Pascal in this fashion and there was a heinous uproar. He was putting our best player in the positions for him to thrive and people wanted him fired. Funny how it's so different with Carlisle.

Pascal made the all-star team without Lowry. Not sure what Raptors you are watching, but he was just fine playing with contract year Fred.

If you say so...

I don't choose who makes the all-star team.

[YogurtProducer]

I really don't understand the arguments about Siakam in here or people saying "Look what Siakam is doing you all were wrong about him"...

You're doing it wrong. You have to pretend that Tyrese Haliburton doesn't play for the Pacers and that the offence actually runs through Siakam. Then all of sudden, this thread will make sense.

You might be right.

But where you are wrong is using Indiana as any sort of proof of anything for your preferred course of action. This is a team who has made the playoffs 11/15 years (losing round 1 5 straight times), has not picked higher than 10 in the draft once (Jarace Walker at 8), acquired arguably their top 3 players via trades, and flat out refused to rebuild in a way you would want to see.

So sure, Siakam might not be the #1 there. But the Pacers are still a lesson in team building that it does not necessarily require a tank, AND that you could have built a good team around Siakam as a top dog. 2020, and 2025, are proof of that.

[Mikistan]

Was it because Fred was the real leader

The odd thing was that in the 2021-22 season after the ASB, Raptors seemed better without Fred in the lineup - although admittedly he was playing hurt most of that season. The comeback against the Sixers in the playoffs was without Fred. We ultimately lost that series because Scottie was playing hurt (and has been limping ever since), no because of Fred's season-ending injury.

That's why I didn't want to overpay Fred to return, let alone vastly overpay him to return. Not sure what the team was thinking.

You said it yourself. Before the break he averaged 21/7 on 57TS% while playing good defense and made the all star break, and was behind only Pascal in net rating. That's what the FO saw in him. Then he was playing hurt the rest of the way.

They saw an even better version of the same player that the Rockets did, when he completely turned around their season and led the team on on/off

But the raptors were playing rosters that were missing key guys due to covid border and testing restrictions that year the FVV ratings during that must be taken with a grain

[Spates]

Pascal made the all-star team without Lowry. Not sure what Raptors you are watching, but he was just fine playing with contract year Fred.

If you say so...

I don't choose who makes the all-star team.

Haliburton was voted most overrated, maybe we need to revisit simple usage of accolades to make points.

And you know what? You're right, he was just fine that season. That captures his impact pretty well. If fine is how you choose to describe his play why are you bothering to reply to me in a thread celebrating his current level of production?

Keep in mind the all-around putrid play-in performance.
Numerous times you attempt to refute me pointing to Pascal's personal accolades while ignoring the team's complete mediocrity. Great lead playmakers help teams punch above their weight class. Pascal was never great in that role, he was fine, adequate...

He's great doing what he's doing with the Pacers. It's the version of Pascal I've been vying for. Stats back up his superior impact.

I don't understand your angle.