Offseason 2025 Thread

[yosemiteben]

That Evan guy knows nothing, not a meaningful data point for me

[JMAC3]

Missing on draft picks is what has messed us up the most.

2024: Saluan and KJ
2023: Miller, Smith Jr, Amari Bailey.
2022: Mark (the Duran trade)
2021: Bouknight, Kai.
2020: Melo
2019: PJ, Martin's, Jalen McDaniels.
2018 Miles (SGA trade)

Our best draft was 2019. Got players who turned out be be quality starters (PJ/Martin's) and someone who for us at least was a good bench player.

The most recent 4 drafts, we've got a grant total of 2 starter level players. One of them we just tried to trade, and both of them have missed tons of games due to injury.

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

[HornetJail]

Signing Hayward (who seemed to actively avoid playing games under the guise of injury) to that terrible contract and as a result drafting Bouknought at pick 11 set this franchise back years. Incompetent decision.

just keeping Batum as a tank commander in 2020-21 instead of signing Hayward single handedly pushes us into the top 8 of that draft... and pretty much EVERYONE in the top 8 has turned out quite well except for Green

[HornetJail]

and we would have had what $39M extra to work with in the 2021 and 2022 offseasons with no Hayward, and no stretched Batum money

Kupchak should have be fired for that alone, it's just gross incompetence that we saw over and over again

[EmpireFalls]

Missing on draft picks is what has messed us up the most.

2024: Saluan and KJ
2023: Miller, Smith Jr, Amari Bailey.
2022: Mark (the Duran trade)
2021: Bouknight, Kai.
2020: Melo
2019: PJ, Martin's, Jalen McDaniels.
2018 Miles (SGA trade)

Our best draft was 2019. Got players who turned out be be quality starters (PJ/Martin's) and someone who for us at least was a good bench player.

The most recent 4 drafts, we've got a grant total of 2 starter level players. One of them we just tried to trade, and both of them have missed tons of games due to injury.

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

Yeah but we also traded a first in 2021 and made a stupid trade in 2022 for Duren, effectively trading that pick for the pick that became NSJ. The Kai trade is a big reason we’ve tanked these past two years, as we would’ve owed our pick if we were outside the lottery.

When we miss in 2021 we missed BIG. It’s not as simple as boiling it down to 5/7 drafts, the abomination that was the 2021 draft set us back years due to the awful players and the Kai Jones trade’s carry-over effect.

[JMAC3]

Missing on draft picks is what has messed us up the most.

2024: Saluan and KJ
2023: Miller, Smith Jr, Amari Bailey.
2022: Mark (the Duran trade)
2021: Bouknight, Kai.
2020: Melo
2019: PJ, Martin's, Jalen McDaniels.
2018 Miles (SGA trade)

Our best draft was 2019. Got players who turned out be be quality starters (PJ/Martin's) and someone who for us at least was a good bench player.

The most recent 4 drafts, we've got a grant total of 2 starter level players. One of them we just tried to trade, and both of them have missed tons of games due to injury.

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

Yeah but we also traded a first in 2021 and made a stupid trade in 2022 for Duren, effectively trading that pick for the pick that became NSJ. The Kai trade is a big reason we’ve tanked these past two years, as we would’ve owed our pick if we were outside the lottery.

When we miss in 2021 we missed BIG. It’s not as simple as boiling it down to 5/7 drafts, the abomination that was the 2021 draft set us back years due to the awful players and the Kai Jones trade’s carry-over effect.

2021 was just a bad draft tbh.
9. Davion
10. Ziare
11. Bouk
12. Primo
13. Duarte
14. Moody
15. Kispert
16. Sengun
17. Murphy
18. Tre Mann
19. Kai Jones
20. Jalen Johnson
21. Keon Johnson
22. Isaiah Jackson
23. Usman Garuba
24. Josh Christopher

3 out of these 16 players would have made a difference in Sengun, Murphy and Johnson. Everyone else wasn't swinging the franchise into any different bracket of success.

[Bassman]

I was SO pissed they had the chance to draft Sengun and passed.

[fatlever]

2021 draft was awful, yet we doubled down and traded back in, and still missed. then missed thrice with our early 2nd. disaster summer.

[JMAC3]

2021 draft was awful, yet we doubled down and traded back in, and still missed. then missed thrice with our early 2nd. disaster summer.

Almost why trading future picks for more first round picks is almost always a bad move. Especially if you are trading them for picks in the late teens and 20's which I have been against this year so everyone can take a flyer on Rasheer Fleming as a 21 yr old with meh production.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

Yeah but we also traded a first in 2021 and made a stupid trade in 2022 for Duren, effectively trading that pick for the pick that became NSJ. The Kai trade is a big reason we’ve tanked these past two years, as we would’ve owed our pick if we were outside the lottery.

When we miss in 2021 we missed BIG. It’s not as simple as boiling it down to 5/7 drafts, the abomination that was the 2021 draft set us back years due to the awful players and the Kai Jones trade’s carry-over effect.

2021 was just a bad draft tbh.
9. Davion
10. Ziare
11. Bouk
12. Primo
13. Duarte
14. Moody
15. Kispert
16. Sengun
17. Murphy
18. Tre Mann
19. Kai Jones
20. Jalen Johnson
21. Keon Johnson
22. Isaiah Jackson
23. Usman Garuba
24. Josh Christopher

3 out of these 16 players would have made a difference in Sengun, Murphy and Johnson. Everyone else wasn't swinging the franchise into any different bracket of success.

I recall a lot of posters here wanted Sengun or Johnson and I think few were high on Bouknight at all, albeit some may have assumed he'd be gone before pick 11 (which is absolutely hilarious in hindsight.)

I was screaming for the Hornets to draft Jalen Johnson. He'd had a clearly superior freshman season compared to Patrick Williams who went #4 the year before and was very athletic and bigger too.

All that quitting on Duke nonsense tanked his value.

[GiggitySmalls]

People saying it would be foolish trading LaMelo.

I say it would be foolish to keep him as well. Not like he can stay healthy. We get a extremely talented player for 40 games. Is that how we really want build this team moving forward.

Every season it's the same excuse This Is His Prove It Year!

Every season that narrative starts again like the last season wasn't his prove it year.

I honestly don't care if we keep or trade LaMelo. But to act like trading him sets us back is crazy. We haven't won at all in the LaMelo era. We are not losing anything by trading LaMelo. If anything we gain a healthy body in return.

I would say you are pretty big on trading LaMelo at this point, which is fine. What are 5 trades you would actually consider for LaMelo that are realistic?

before this I said lamelo for zion straight up. i didn't know he had rape allegations.
Houston I would do melo for Smith, Reed, and this years pick
Orlando for Franz almost straight up
Philly for Maxeey almost straight up
melo for Trey Murphy almost straight up

[JDR720]

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

2021 was a near apocalypse, but the other drafts aren't that great still.

The Smith Jr pick wasn't good, sure he may figure it out next season, but still we used a 1st round pick on him.

The Duren trade was asset malpractice.

One thing that has messed us up is we keep missing on our 2nd round picks, including high ones. Thor, Bryce (who I forgot to list), Amari etc. We haven't had a good 2nd rounder since... Richards? Whoever was drafted last between him and the Martins.

For our 1st round picks since Melo, 2-6 are good players, Miller and Mark. The other 4 (Saluan/Smith/Kai/Booknight) are either busts or likely busts. 33% hit rate is bad.

[JustBuzzin]

People saying it would be foolish trading LaMelo.

I say it would be foolish to keep him as well. Not like he can stay healthy. We get a extremely talented player for 40 games. Is that how we really want build this team moving forward.

Every season it's the same excuse This Is His Prove It Year!

Every season that narrative starts again like the last season wasn't his prove it year.

I honestly don't care if we keep or trade LaMelo. But to act like trading him sets us back is crazy. We haven't won at all in the LaMelo era. We are not losing anything by trading LaMelo. If anything we gain a healthy body in return.

I would say you are pretty big on trading LaMelo at this point, which is fine. What are 5 trades you would actually consider for LaMelo that are realistic?

before this I said lamelo for zion straight up. i didn't know he had rape allegations.
Houston I would do melo for Smith, Reed, and this years pick
Orlando for Franz almost straight up
Philly for Maxeey almost straight up
melo for Trey Murphy almost straight up

I would do LaMelo for Franz in a heartbeat.

Draft Fears to replace LaMelo.

Fears
Miller
Bridges
Franz
Mark

[JMAC3]

Only bad draft thus far is 2021. Too early to say for 2024, but Miller, Mark, PJ, Melo and Miles are all better than average for their draft slot. Even if you want to say Salaun is already a bust that is still 5/7 good drafts, most franchises would live with that.

2021 was a near apocalypse, but the other drafts aren't that great still.

The Smith Jr pick wasn't good, sure he may figure it out next season, but still we used a 1st round pick on him.

The Duren trade was asset malpractice.

One thing that has messed us up is we keep missing on our 2nd round picks, including high ones. Thor, Bryce (who I forgot to list), Amari etc. We haven't had a good 2nd rounder since... Richards? Whoever was drafted last between him and the Martins.

For our 1st round picks since Melo, 2-6 are good players, Miller and Mark. The other 4 (Saluan/Smith/Kai/Booknight) are either busts or likely busts. 33% hit rate is bad.

I mean you can't be mad about missing on 2nd round picks, once you get past pick 40 the bust rate is 75% and keeps getting worse the further you go. Nick Smith Jr was the 27th pick, 70% of those picks either bust or end up rotation pieces off the bench. We have to have realistic expectations or you are just going to mad about it every year...

I show 16 players drafted and people immediately go to the only 3 that are decent, if you want to play hindsight bingo then yeah you are almost always going to be mad. It is the same thing with Miles, nobody at the time was mad we traded down 1 spot and got 2 2nds to draft a player in the same EXACT TIER, but looking back on it people would argue Shai was a clear star in the making yada yada yada...

For every person who is crying wolf they wanted Sengun, there are 5 more that wanted Wiseman over Melo, 10 more that wanted Scoot over Miller... Hell Okongwu was a huge favorite on the board the same year we drafted Melo. It is okay to admit the team shouldn't have to draft perfect every single year to win in the NBA.

So yeah the pick at 4 likely is a failure because someone picked 5-10 will likely be better, that is just the truth and there will be 5+ people who show up 3 years later to tell us they were touting Carter Bryant or Maluach or whoever it is. It is just how things work and why I asked if the process with VJ is best player and best fit then 3 years from now you can't cry if the pick doesn't work and be mad at the FO for taking the board favorite.

I would say overall I am fine with the Hornets drafting, it is the other stuff like lack of vision in trades and managing the salary space to get good FA that has hurt us more than anything.

[JMAC3]

before this I said lamelo for zion straight up. i didn't know he had rape allegations.
Houston I would do melo for Smith, Reed, and this years pick
Orlando for Franz almost straight up
Philly for Maxeey almost straight up
melo for Trey Murphy almost straight up

Everyone is always team trade LaMelo, losing player, can't stay healthy and not serious etc... but then when it comes time to look at trades they want nothing to do with realistic trades. This isn't how trades work in the NBA, teams don't just trade their top 30 guy for someone's top 40 guy just because. Magic aren't trading Franz or Philly trading Maxey for an equal player with more injury history and less success.. unless Franz or Maxey demand out and even then unlikely.

The only trade here that makes sense is the Houston one and I assume that is the one that most people would say they wouldn't do.

[Braggins]

I didn't realize Naz Reid was going to be a free agent until recently. I like his fit on this team a lot. They need a floor spacing option who can play the 5 and he can also fit well in double big lineups with Mark. I'll have to look into their cap space situation but I'm guessing he'll be out of their range unless the make some deals first but idk.

[JustBuzzin]

I didn't realize Naz Reid was going to be a free agent until recently. I like his fit on this team a lot. They need a floor spacing option who can play the 5 and he can also fit well in double big lineups with Mark. I'll have to look into their cap space situation but I'm guessing he'll be out of their range unless the make some deals first but idk.

He should be our #1 target tbh

We need a legit pf for a change.

[Braggins]

Looks like they are a bit over the cap if they hold on to the following players

LaMelo Ball ~ 37,958,760
Miles Bridges ~ 25,000,000
Jusuf Nurkic ~ 19,375,000
Tre Mann ~ 14,725,119 (hold)
Josh Green ~ 13,666,667
Grant Williams ~ 13,645,500
Brandon Miller ~ 11,968,800
Tidjane Salaun ~ 7,863,240
Josh Okogie ~ 7,750,000
Mark Williams ~ 6,276,531
Nick Smith Jr ~ 2,710,680
Moussa Diabate ~ 2,270,735

total: 163,211,032
cap: 154,647,000

They can't get meaningfully under the cap even if they renounced Tre Manns cap hold and cut Okogie. Looks like their only option for Naz Reid would be a S&T. That doesn't seem very likely to me tbh.

[Bassman]

When they did the disastrous deal to give up SGA for Miles I was shocked. We needed a SG soooo badly, and have ever since. I felt Miles was a tweener who was a drop in potential comparatively. Mikes was a bit better than I expected but what a massive fail.

So I disagree with those who feel the Hornets drafts have generally been good. Our basement positioning is largely due to these picks. Depth? What depth?

[Braggins]

Looks like they are a bit over the cap if they hold on to the following players

LaMelo Ball ~ 37,958,760
Miles Bridges ~ 25,000,000
Jusuf Nurkic ~ 19,375,000
Tre Mann ~ 14,725,119 (hold)
Josh Green ~ 13,666,667
Grant Williams ~ 13,645,500
Brandon Miller ~ 11,968,800
Tidjane Salaun ~ 7,863,240
Josh Okogie ~ 7,750,000
Mark Williams ~ 6,276,531
Nick Smith Jr ~ 2,710,680
Moussa Diabate ~ 2,270,735

total: 163,211,032
cap: 154,647,000

They can't get meaningfully under the cap even if they renounced Tre Manns cap hold and cut Okogie. Looks like their only option for Naz Reid would be a S&T. That doesn't seem very likely to me tbh.

At this point I would keep Okogie and try to extend Mann. They need to nail their MLE signing and a consolidation trade or two plus the draft.