Hawks: Choose Your Fighter

Moderators: BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck

User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,280
And1: 98,046
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#1 » by Texas Chuck » Sat May 31, 2025 1:37 pm

It's possible both Memphis and Indiana would like to move a roughly MLE sized backup big. Atlanta could use one.

Toppin 3 years left $14m/$15M/$16M
Clarke 2 years left $12.5M/$12.5M

Clarke has the advantage of fitting into their $13M TPE without touching the bigger one.

So Clarke seems like the obvious choice at first glance. But does Atlanta maybe prefer Toppin as a player? Or would maybe Indy add more incentive than Memphis would be willing to?

What if anything do you think those teams might add to Atlanta to take their guy. And who if either would you choose as Atlanta?
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Godaddycurse
RealGM
Posts: 21,753
And1: 13,705
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#2 » by Godaddycurse » Sat May 31, 2025 1:43 pm

whichever team offers me more incentive
ReggiesKnicks
Veteran
Posts: 2,747
And1: 2,267
Joined: Jan 25, 2025
   

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#3 » by ReggiesKnicks » Sat May 31, 2025 1:46 pm

I prefer Toppin. Onyeka Okongwu is already a slightly undersized, even if versatile Center. Clarke is a solid rim-runner but again, undersized.

Toppin offers more juice on both ends of the court, and his contract reflects it as being both longer and higher AAV.

I could also be a bit biased
NYG
RealGM
Posts: 14,979
And1: 2,980
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#4 » by NYG » Sat May 31, 2025 1:57 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:It's possible both Memphis and Indiana would like to move a roughly MLE sized backup big. Atlanta could use one.

Toppin 3 years left $14m/$15M/$16M
Clarke 2 years left $12.5M/$12.5M

Clarke has the advantage of fitting into their $13M TPE without touching the bigger one.

So Clarke seems like the obvious choice at first glance. But does Atlanta maybe prefer Toppin as a player? Or would maybe Indy add more incentive than Memphis would be willing to?

What if anything do you think those teams might add to Atlanta to take their guy. And who if either would you choose as Atlanta?


For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts
NYG
RealGM
Posts: 14,979
And1: 2,980
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#5 » by NYG » Sat May 31, 2025 2:02 pm

Hawks get:
Obi Toppin
Sam Hauser
28th Overall Draft Pick
32nd Overall Draft Pick

Celtics get:
23rd Overall Draft Pick

Pacers get:
TPE/Cash

Hawks follow-up by trading 32nd for two future 2nds and then 28 and 22 for an earlier pick (Minnesota at 17?)
psman2
General Manager
Posts: 8,813
And1: 5,880
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#6 » by psman2 » Sat May 31, 2025 2:44 pm

NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:It's possible both Memphis and Indiana would like to move a roughly MLE sized backup big. Atlanta could use one.

Toppin 3 years left $14m/$15M/$16M
Clarke 2 years left $12.5M/$12.5M

Clarke has the advantage of fitting into their $13M TPE without touching the bigger one.

So Clarke seems like the obvious choice at first glance. But does Atlanta maybe prefer Toppin as a player? Or would maybe Indy add more incentive than Memphis would be willing to?

What if anything do you think those teams might add to Atlanta to take their guy. And who if either would you choose as Atlanta?


For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts


I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.
esvl
Starter
Posts: 2,190
And1: 624
Joined: Jun 02, 2022
     

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#7 » by esvl » Sat May 31, 2025 2:50 pm

psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:It's possible both Memphis and Indiana would like to move a roughly MLE sized backup big. Atlanta could use one.

Toppin 3 years left $14m/$15M/$16M
Clarke 2 years left $12.5M/$12.5M

Clarke has the advantage of fitting into their $13M TPE without touching the bigger one.

So Clarke seems like the obvious choice at first glance. But does Atlanta maybe prefer Toppin as a player? Or would maybe Indy add more incentive than Memphis would be willing to?

What if anything do you think those teams might add to Atlanta to take their guy. And who if either would you choose as Atlanta?


For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts


I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.

Interesting. That sounds ideal to me. So what JJJ’s contract might look like in that scenario?
jayjaysee
King of the Trade Board
Posts: 20,698
And1: 7,689
Joined: Aug 05, 2012

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#8 » by jayjaysee » Sat May 31, 2025 2:51 pm

I’d rather see Atlanta get a big center.

But it’s Toppin for me unless Memphis is adding a lot of value. And Memphis shouldn’t add a lot of value.
psman2
General Manager
Posts: 8,813
And1: 5,880
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#9 » by psman2 » Sat May 31, 2025 3:21 pm

esvl wrote:
psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts


I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.

Interesting. That sounds ideal to me. So what JJJ’s contract might look like in that scenario?


We bump him up to 36m or so. That is plenty to get to the 140% threshold for his 30% max extension. Then it just a matter of 4 or 5 years. New years in deal $51,033,600/$55,116,288/$59,198,976/$63,281,664/$67,364,352. Based on current projected cap of 170.1m

Now maybe he wants to risk making an all NBA team or defensive player of the year next season to qualify for the bigger super max. Does he risk 12million and take the injury risk to hope to get a deal that could pay him 43 million more on a 5 year deal? Or does he really want to explore FA? I think he takes the free 12 million in money and the 8% raises. The thought was if we can give him the full 22m more next season, he would shave off a few million per year on the back end when we are more likely facing tax issues.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,280
And1: 98,046
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#10 » by Texas Chuck » Sat May 31, 2025 3:33 pm

jayjaysee wrote:I’d rather see Atlanta get a big center.

But it’s Toppin for me unless Memphis is adding a lot of value. And Memphis shouldn’t add a lot of value.


What would you be calling a lot of value? (and I agree whatever that is they shouldn't pay it. :D )

Sounds like you think Toppin is worth his contract and Clarke isn't worth his? Or am I misreading that?
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
gswhoops
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,345
And1: 5,956
Joined: Apr 27, 2005
   

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#11 » by gswhoops » Sat May 31, 2025 3:44 pm

NYG wrote:Hawks get:
Obi Toppin
Sam Hauser
28th Overall Draft Pick
32nd Overall Draft Pick

Celtics get:
23rd Overall Draft Pick

Pacers get:
TPE/Cash

Hawks follow-up by trading 32nd for two future 2nds and then 28 and 22 for an earlier pick (Minnesota at 17?)

I’d have this as way too good for the Celtics, pretty decent for the Hawks, and pretty awful for Indiana
jayjaysee
King of the Trade Board
Posts: 20,698
And1: 7,689
Joined: Aug 05, 2012

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#12 » by jayjaysee » Sat May 31, 2025 3:44 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:I’d rather see Atlanta get a big center.

But it’s Toppin for me unless Memphis is adding a lot of value. And Memphis shouldn’t add a lot of value.


What would you be calling a lot of value? (and I agree whatever that is they shouldn't pay it. :D )

Sounds like you think Toppin is worth his contract and Clarke isn't worth his? Or am I misreading that?


I do think Toppin is worth the MLE.. I go back and forth on that sometimes, but I never have Clarke worth his?

I don’t know what “a lot” is. But Clarke should be pretty cheap to dump so Memphis shouldn’t involve in some bidding war. He’s a useful player, just overpaid.

Just call Utah, Chicago, Washington, Sacramento, Charlotte, etc. once Atlanta tries to raise their asking price.
oldncreaky
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 6,802
And1: 8,135
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Location: A retirement village near you
   

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#13 » by oldncreaky » Sat May 31, 2025 4:16 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:I’d rather see Atlanta get a big center.

But it’s Toppin for me unless Memphis is adding a lot of value. And Memphis shouldn’t add a lot of value.


What would you be calling a lot of value? (and I agree whatever that is they shouldn't pay it. :D )

Sounds like you think Toppin is worth his contract and Clarke isn't worth his? Or am I misreading that?


From the perspective of DET, who could really use a PF:
- I'd add incentive (maybe 2 SPRs??) to take Toppin into our NTMLE, even though the final year of his contract looks like a bit of a future problem on our cap sheet
- I wouldn't want to take Clarke into our NTMLE without some minor incentive even though he expires before our kids get potentially expensive extensions

So Obi Toppin > Clarke by 2 or 3 SRPs, or at least that's what I think in the context of DET's cap sheet
In a no-win argument, the first poster to Let It Go will at least retain some peace of mind
NYG
RealGM
Posts: 14,979
And1: 2,980
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#14 » by NYG » Sun Jun 1, 2025 3:15 am

psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:It's possible both Memphis and Indiana would like to move a roughly MLE sized backup big. Atlanta could use one.

Toppin 3 years left $14m/$15M/$16M
Clarke 2 years left $12.5M/$12.5M

Clarke has the advantage of fitting into their $13M TPE without touching the bigger one.

So Clarke seems like the obvious choice at first glance. But does Atlanta maybe prefer Toppin as a player? Or would maybe Indy add more incentive than Memphis would be willing to?

What if anything do you think those teams might add to Atlanta to take their guy. And who if either would you choose as Atlanta?


For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts


I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.


What raise could they give JJJ in 2026-27 if they had the $12 Million extra this summer?
psman2
General Manager
Posts: 8,813
And1: 5,880
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#15 » by psman2 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 4:02 am

NYG wrote:
psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
For Memphis specifically, they would probably need to dump both Clarke and Konchar in order to re-sign JJJ

Using past history as a reference...

2022 Draft: JaMychal Green and 2027 Denver 1st (Top 5 Protected) for 30th Overall and Two Future Seconds
2022 Draft: Timberwolves/Rockets - 26th Overall for 29th Overall and two seconds
2023 Draft: Richaun Holmes and 24th Overall into TPE

So trade 1 likely means Konchar and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st = 30 and two 2nds

Trade 2 likely means that 30 and two 2nds = 26th

So Konchar and '30 Top 5 Memphis 1st = 26th Overall by that math

Clarke and 26 roughly equals Holmes and 24

So you would be looking at Konchar, Clarke and 2030 Top 5 Protected Memphis 1st to dump all that salary. I think in that case Memphis likely just cuts Aldama loose and trades Konchar using a smaller asset.

23 and Toppin probably gets the deal done with Indiana though. Problem is, the Hawks would need a follow up deal because they would begin to have a lot of 2025 1sts


I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.


What raise could they give JJJ in 2026-27 if they had the $12 Million extra this summer?


He will make 36 million if he takes that raise then we are allow to extend at him at 140% of that number which exceeds the max we can legally pay him. So 30% max. Which should start at 51m.
NYG
RealGM
Posts: 14,979
And1: 2,980
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#16 » by NYG » Sun Jun 1, 2025 4:05 am

psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
psman2 wrote:
I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.


What raise could they give JJJ in 2026-27 if they had the $12 Million extra this summer?


He will make 36 million if he takes that raise then we are allow to extend at him at 140% of that number which exceeds the max we can legally pay him. So 30% max. Which should start at 51m.


So he makes more than currently scheduled in 2025-26 plus gets a MAX extension? Plus it makes things work better for the Grizzlies? Seems like what is actually going to happen. What does it cost to dump Konchar?
psman2
General Manager
Posts: 8,813
And1: 5,880
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#17 » by psman2 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 4:13 am

NYG wrote:
psman2 wrote:
NYG wrote:
What raise could they give JJJ in 2026-27 if they had the $12 Million extra this summer?


He will make 36 million if he takes that raise then we are allow to extend at him at 140% of that number which exceeds the max we can legally pay him. So 30% max. Which should start at 51m.


So he makes more than currently scheduled in 2025-26 plus gets a MAX extension? Plus it makes things work better for the Grizzlies? Seems like what is actually going to happen. What does it cost to dump Konchar?


I think max cash and 2 2nds is the max it would cost if a total dump. If we can get him to a team that wants him as deep rotation player, likely less.

JJJ might want to gamble to earn a 35% max and not extend. He might also demand the full 22m to extend now and offer no discount on his full max. Or might say if you give me the 22m now then I will give a discount on the back end years on a declining deal and we decide if that is worth the cost of losing one of Aldama or Clarke. Or he just takes the 12m raise and allow us to keep a rotation player, that would be the best case scenario for the team unless it is cheap to move Clarke and the discount is deemed worth it then the 22m raise is the best option likely.
LightTheBeam
RealGM
Posts: 18,827
And1: 11,959
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
     

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#18 » by LightTheBeam » Sun Jun 1, 2025 5:25 am

If indiana is offering toppin for free, the Kings should take him into the huerter TPE.
esvl
Starter
Posts: 2,190
And1: 624
Joined: Jun 02, 2022
     

Re: Hawks: Choose Your Fighter 

Post#19 » by esvl » Sun Jun 1, 2025 4:54 pm

psman2 wrote:
esvl wrote:
psman2 wrote:
I think another approach here is Memphis only dumps Konchar and gives JJJ only a 12 million raise next year, instead of the 22m to his max. We should still be able to extend off that number to the his max in future years. The hope was if we can give him max new money next season then he would give a discount on the backend but I still think it takes this lesser deal but maybe without any discounts. This would give us a stronger team next year and not require much in assets to clear salary only Konchar. Keep Aldama and have the room exception to use still as well.

Interesting. That sounds ideal to me. So what JJJ’s contract might look like in that scenario?


We bump him up to 36m or so. That is plenty to get to the 140% threshold for his 30% max extension. Then it just a matter of 4 or 5 years. New years in deal $51,033,600/$55,116,288/$59,198,976/$63,281,664/$67,364,352. Based on current projected cap of 170.1m

Now maybe he wants to risk making an all NBA team or defensive player of the year next season to qualify for the bigger super max. Does he risk 12million and take the injury risk to hope to get a deal that could pay him 43 million more on a 5 year deal? Or does he really want to explore FA? I think he takes the free 12 million in money and the 8% raises. The thought was if we can give him the full 22m more next season, he would shave off a few million per year on the back end when we are more likely facing tax issues.

Thanks. That would be a great path forward for Memphis. Now, JJJ has to agree to it, and I am afraid that moving to the Lakers is too enticing. We’ll see soon. Going back to the mechanic of that option, do you know what exception would be available to us?

Return to Trades and Transactions