Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[tsherkin]

Ahhh I messed up the merge.

[WeThe2019Champs]

Start the choppa!

[Scase]

I think you’re heavily underrating BI, but I’m pretty sure there’s nothing I could say to persuade you otherwise. We’ll just have to wait and see him on the court this year.

But how is “Scottie on steroids” not a panacea? If Scottie became a perennial DPOY & MVP candidate [through development or by trading him for Giannis], how would that not significantly elevate the team?

I never said it wouldn't elevate the team, I said it's not a panacea. In case you are unfamiliar with the word, it's a cure all, as in fixes everything. A better Scottie still has the same gaps, obviously Giannis is leagues beyond Scottie, but he still lacks range which is a huge part of what holds back literally any team. Not to mention Lopez is what has freed up Giannis so much over the years, you know a 3p shooting centre....the thing we aren't even close to having.

And how the hell am I underrating BI, he's got 9 years of data out there, there's nothing to underrate. He's not a bad player by any stretch, [b]he's also never shown anything more than being an AS level player,[\b] so you'll have to forgive me for thinking that I don't expect a 28 year old with 9 years under his belt to magically have some new level to show. He has been remarkably consistent the last 6 seasons, with the major question mark always being his health, if I was underrating BI, then I guess every single team out there for years has been too, since no one but our FO showed any real interest.

By your own words, BI has shown he’s an All-star level player. Giannis + an all-star level player = one of the best duos in the league, that’s all I was saying.

And I’m well aware of what panacea means, but thank you for the english lesson. Your default stance on every topic seems to be that everything is broken and unfixable, so I doubt you’d accept the presence of a panacea if one was presented.

BI showed he was an AS level player six years ago, and again, none of that accounts for the massive amount of time they'd miss together. But keep going on with the hyperbole.

[TorontoBarneys]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

[Scase]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

I'd say lack of shooting and operating in the same space, clogs up the paint a bunch especially with RJ/BI/Jak all operating in similar ranges.

[tsherkin]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Positional overlap. Brandon Ingram's presence meaning Scottie shouldn't be the starting 3. Scottie's lack of shooting. Having BI and IQ, maybe RJ, meaning that Scottie should handle less. Poeltl being better than Scottie as a center.

[TorontoBarneys]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

I'd say lack of shooting and operating in the same space, clogs up the paint a bunch especially with RJ/BI/Jak all operating in similar ranges.

I figured Poeltl is gone in this instance and Giannis operates at the 5. Stranger things have happened.

But yes, Scottie really has to improve his 3 and soon.

[Kurtz]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

[tsherkin]

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5.

Worth remembering that Giannis doesn't WANT to play the 5, and that Scottie isn't likely to be good at the 5.

[Clutch0z24]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

Yeah we not getting Giannis without Barnes....Bucks will want Barnes to build around in that scenario along with the #9th pick and prolly RJ or Gradey along with all the picks we can offer...This is not the Kawhi situation where Kawhi was injured on his walk year....Bucks are going to get a bag for Giannis in this deal to who ever they trade him to...

[Madvillainy2004]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Positional overlap. Brandon Ingram's presence meaning Scottie shouldn't be the starting 3. Scottie's lack of shooting. Having BI and IQ, maybe RJ, meaning that Scottie should handle less. Poeltl being better than Scottie as a center.

Giannis is great enough to make anything "work" and carry his team to a solid record. But Scottie and Giannis are probably the 2 worst jump shooters in the league (at least among guys that take a decent amount). Once you get to the playoffs it can get real ugly with Scottie and Giannis out there. RJ can at least hit corner 3s and attack closeouts.

[TorontoBarneys]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

Yeah we not getting Giannis without Barnes....Bucks will want Barnes to build around in that scenario along with the #9th pick and prolly RJ or Gradey along with all the picks we can offer...This is not the Kawhi situation where Kawhi was injured on his walk year....Bucks are going to get a bag for Giannis in this deal to who ever they trade him to...

That's simply far too much for potentially 2 years of Giannis. Bucks can ask for the world, doesn't mean they'll get it.

Raptors need assets remaining post-trade to retrofit the roster around Giannis properly.

[WuTang_CMB]

Masai end of season

"i guarantee there will be many unique opportunities that will come up in July"

https://youtu.be/aoye9gqJmmg?t=1082

[tsherkin]

Giannis is great enough to make anything "work" and carry his team to a solid record. But Scottie and Giannis are probably the 2 worst jump shooters in the league (at least among guys that take a decent amount). Once you get to the playoffs it can get real ugly with Scottie and Giannis out there. RJ can at least hit corner 3s and attack closeouts.

I mean, we'd do well. It's just a stupid pairing given the roster. We're likely to have to give up Barnes anyway, which is good, if this ever becomes real instead of fantasy-land.

But it's worth remembering that Giannis shot 48% on about 2 FGA/g from 10-16 feet this year... about the same as Scottie xD He doesn't hit 3s or take long 2s, granted, but... that's not really important for him, that's more about the guys around him anyway. Which is why it's more of an issue for Scottie, who isn't very good above the foul line or beyond 15 feet, and isn't competent ATB from 3.

[Brinbe]

Enjoy Milwaukee, Scottie lol.

If they get Giannis (first of all, it's a good problem) there's a couple of necessary follow-up moves to get the most out of him like finding a real stretch big to pair him with and perhaps further consolidating for better running mates behind Ingram as the #2 but we're at least serious contenders for the next 7 years at least.

Giannis and Scottie would make no sense trying to pair together.

[Clutch0z24]

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

Yeah we not getting Giannis without Barnes....Bucks will want Barnes to build around in that scenario along with the #9th pick and prolly RJ or Gradey along with all the picks we can offer...This is not the Kawhi situation where Kawhi was injured on his walk year....Bucks are going to get a bag for Giannis in this deal to who ever they trade him to...

That's simply far too much for potentially 2 years of Giannis. Bucks can ask for the world, doesn't mean they'll get it.

Raptors need assets remaining post-trade to retrofit the roster around Giannis properly.

Well then you don't get Giannis ....Simple as that ...So many teams can offer great packages if thats what Bucks are asking for you do it or don't get him...And you continue trying to build a team that may never be as good with a Giannis leading it...

[WuTang_CMB]

Why can't Scottie and Giannis work?

Spacing issues, but they can work imo as long as one of them can play the 5. Poetl-Giannis-Scottie imo not nearly enough spacing.

Just hard to imagine that you can get Giannis without giving up Barnes. Mind you, we all figured Pascal and/or OG would have to go in a Kawhi trade, and that didn't happen, so who knows.

Yeah we not getting Giannis without Barnes....Bucks will want Barnes to build around in that scenario along with the #9th pick and prolly RJ or Gradey along with all the picks we can offer...This is not the Kawhi situation where Kawhi was injured on his walk year....Bucks are going to get a bag for Giannis in this deal to who ever they trade him to...

I'm more than fine dealing Barnes. And quite honestly, I don't even think Barnes/Giannis would work all that well or I should say it wouldn't be Giannis' fully optimal lineup offensively.


Giannis wants to be the sole downhill initiator from his end of season comments. He would have BI and IQ on the side and we would need another 3 and D guy

[Son Goku 25]

Mods can we merge this with the other Giannis thread? It's essentially the same thing. Hate having to switch back and forth between the 2 threads that are talking about the same thing with no new information.

I love it personally give me more

[GM89]

If I’m trading for Giannis, there’s no way I’m giving up any shooters, especially those on a rookie contract.

[MiamiSPX]

It's also cleaner to deal Barnes, assuming his inclusion means less players leaving our side.