Sam Vecenie: Raptors Off-Season Preview (Video)

[SharoneWright]

They like the pieces on the roster. Don't see how they fit and not sure what the master plan is.

Basically they are like the rest of us. Wait and see.

Like Khaman over Queen for us because of Defense (with the focus being how to maximize Scotties talents)
Thought drafting the new Yak could be interesting. They like CMB.

Sam is a Shead Head, but thinks another guard would be a good idea, as would a backup big... So they said the sky is blue. But in a positive way.

They talked about Durant and how it could be interesting but creates a very small window, they were a little cool on that idea. They were interested in the Giannis trade but didn't think we have the best trade options for the Bucks versus some of the other teams.

Also, thinks Scottie is LeBron James.

Lebron Like... they were very clear he not Lebron but the same type of player... Ya that was a interesting perspective

Of course. They BELABOURED that point!!

And it's a good comp. I personally always thought more of a Magic comp, considering his height/vision/passing/limited shooting and that fact that I like him with the ball in his hands orchestrating the offence --- not unlike LBJ at this stage of his career I suppose.

[Raps in 4]

I don’t mind Vicenie, though he has a number of verbal tics that he cycles through numerous times a podcast that make him a little tiring to listen to sometimes.

I don't mind that, but I don't like his analysis. It's very simplistic. If I'm going to listen to a podcaster, it'll be someone who sees the game better than I do (JJ Redick, Caitlin Cooper, Samson Folk, etc.). Sam never says anything insightful.

[earthtone]

I don’t mind Vicenie, though he has a number of verbal tics that he cycles through numerous times a podcast that make him a little tiring to listen to sometimes.

I don't mind that, but I don't like his analysis. It's very simplistic. If I'm going to listen to a podcaster, it'll be someone who sees the game better than I do (JJ Redick, Caitlin Cooper, Samson Folk, etc.). Sam never says anything insightful.

Yah, I like him for his draft intel and insight into prospects, but he really doesn’t do much for me as an NBA analyst. Really not a fan of Bryce either, doesn’t add much of anything.

[bluerap23]

I like this pod, but don't think they got this right at all.

[Zeno]

I don’t mind Vicenie, though he has a number of verbal tics that he cycles through numerous times a podcast that make him a little tiring to listen to sometimes.

I don't mind that, but I don't like his analysis. It's very simplistic. If I'm going to listen to a podcaster, it'll be someone who sees the game better than I do (JJ Redick, Caitlin Cooper, Samson Folk, etc.). Sam never says anything insightful.

Well, he does do a ton of work evaluating prospects so I appreciate getting his opinion on prospects. Not endorsing him in particular as an evaluator but he puts the full work in it seems. But, yeah he is not the most innovative thinker for sure and he makes some basic cba errors from time to time in these team previews too. Not the best but still happy with any content to pass the off-season so can’t complain too too much.

[MainEvent]

I don’t mind Vicenie, though he has a number of verbal tics that he cycles through numerous times a podcast that make him a little tiring to listen to sometimes.

I don't mind that, but I don't like his analysis. It's very simplistic. If I'm going to listen to a podcaster, it'll be someone who sees the game better than I do (JJ Redick, Caitlin Cooper, Samson Folk, etc.). Sam never says anything insightful.

Yah, I like him for his draft intel and insight into prospects, but he really doesn’t do much for me as an NBA analyst. Really not a fan of Bryce either, doesn’t add much of anything.

I don't mind Vicenie but Bryce is just his yes man it would be better if he paired up with someone who has his own opinion

[Jadoogar]

They keep referring to the Siakam trade as just Pascal for BI which is terrible...but it is actually Pascal for BI, Jakobe and Ochai...and that really isn't a disaster.

They just keep talking about how they don't know how this roster fits and I get that but let's not make sweeping conclusions before more moves are made...or seeing how this roster looks after a summer of development and injury management.

The thing with Masai is that he's almost a genius when it comes to draft/evaluating young talent. The Siakam trade was ass but his ability to make the right picks helps offset that.

He could trade Ochai for the 59th pick in this draft and pick a stud in that draft slot. It wouldnt change the facf the original trade would be horrible value.

Its why people hated when he kept trading picks away to remain mediocre while not obtaining picks/young talent earlier from the Fred/OG/Siakam/Lowry/Trent core.

If we ignore Masai's drafting/subsequent trades and just stick to the basics of the respective deals, then we can summarize it as: Raptors received 3 1st rounders for Siakam, and subsequently traded one of these first rounders for BI.

So to state that the deal was Siakam for BI is indeed incorrect. We only traded about 1/3 of the value we got back for Siakam for BI.

i think we should evaluate the trade based on the available information at the time.
We traded Siakam for Bruce Brown (matching salary) and 3 FRPs. We already knew at the time 2 were going to be pretty bad because the Pacers and OKC were good teams. 2026 was the upside pick and even that was a little iffy because i don't see the Pacers falling off next year.

You can always draft a star in the second round but that doesn't change the value of the pick. If Jayson Tatum was traded for the 41st pick, it's a bad trade even if the team ended up picking Jokic with that pick.

[Jadoogar]

They like the pieces on the roster. Don't see how they fit and not sure what the master plan is.

Basically they are like the rest of us. Wait and see.

Like Khaman over Queen for us because of Defense (with the focus being how to maximize Scotties talents)
Thought drafting the new Yak could be interesting. They like CMB.

Sam is a Shead Head, but thinks another guard would be a good idea, as would a backup big... So they said the sky is blue. But in a positive way.

They talked about Durant and how it could be interesting but creates a very small window, they were a little cool on that idea. They were interested in the Giannis trade but didn't think we have the best trade options for the Bucks versus some of the other teams.

Also, thinks Scottie is LeBron James.

Lebron Like... they were very clear he not Lebron but the same type of player... Ya that was a interesting perspective

you can say any point forward is "lebron like". Ben Simmons kind of plays like Lebron too. That type of description doesn't mean anything.

[billy_hoyle]

I think, and have stated on here many times, that the Scottie comp is a poor man's LeBron.

How poor? That's TBD.

For those saying Magic...well LeBron's early career comp was Magic, so it's all the same archetype.

What I have issue with is that they repeatedly state we don't fit.

Which isn't really true IMO. I think Ingram can absolutely fit with Scottie. I think we can consider the historic deployment an issue, but the CAN RJ and BI fit next to Scottie? That can't be answered until they actually play the games IMO. Can BI and RJ hit corner threes at a decent clip? I think so. Can we keep defenses on their toes by have three initiators (RJ, BI and Scottie)? It's possible. We also have Ochai, Dick, Battle and Walter as ideal 'off-ball' role players. Which they even acknowledge in the video.

It seems strange to me that they watch Indy get to the finals with a deep roster or utility type players, and then question Toronto for having too much talent that may force you to play RJ as a defacto bench player/6th men. How is that a problem?

Having high salaried players allows you to easily match star player salaries. We have no use for cap space.

[mtcan]

The thing with Masai is that he's almost a genius when it comes to draft/evaluating young talent. The Siakam trade was ass but his ability to make the right picks helps offset that.

He could trade Ochai for the 59th pick in this draft and pick a stud in that draft slot. It wouldnt change the facf the original trade would be horrible value.

Its why people hated when he kept trading picks away to remain mediocre while not obtaining picks/young talent earlier from the Fred/OG/Siakam/Lowry/Trent core.

If we ignore Masai's drafting/subsequent trades and just stick to the basics of the respective deals, then we can summarize it as: Raptors received 3 1st rounders for Siakam, and subsequently traded one of these first rounders for BI.

So to state that the deal was Siakam for BI is indeed incorrect. We only traded about 1/3 of the value we got back for Siakam for BI.

i think we should evaluate the trade based on the available information at the time.
We traded Siakam for Bruce Brown (matching salary) and 3 FRPs. We already knew at the time 2 were going to be pretty bad because the Pacers and OKC were good teams. 2026 was the upside pick and even that was a little iffy because i don't see the Pacers falling off next year.

You can always draft a star in the second round but that doesn't change the value of the pick. If Jayson Tatum was traded for the 41st pick, it's a bad trade even if the team ended up picking Jokic with that pick.

You can't fully evaluate a trade before all the assets are revealed for who they are IRL.

Trade looked bad last year when it was Pascal for Bruce Brown, Kelly Olynyk, Jordan Nwora, Ochai and 2 first round picks.

But when you realize that the trade became Brandon Ingram, Jakobe and Ochai...the value proposition is very different.

Pascal for BI might seem to favor Indiana especially because of recency bias since Pascal is in the finals and BI isn't...but no...the deal isn't nearly as lopsided today as it was a year ago.

For any podcaster to not recognize the other parts of that trade...I lose respect for their opinions immediately.

[SpezNc]

Anyone be kind enough to give a basic summary?!?

They like the pieces on the roster. Don't see how they fit and not sure what the master plan is.

Basically they are like the rest of us. Wait and see.

Like Khaman over Queen for us because of Defense (with the focus being how to maximize Scotties talents)
Thought drafting the new Yak could be interesting. They like CMB.

Sam is a Shead Head, but thinks another guard would be a good idea, as would a backup big... So they said the sky is blue. But in a positive way.

They talked about Durant and how it could be interesting but creates a very small window, they were a little cool on that idea. They were interested in the Giannis trade but didn't think we have the best trade options for the Bucks versus some of the other teams.

If we only focus on their draft portion analysis, it went like this :

-Let’s look at center first
-Maluach is obviously a fit but may not be high usage player that consensus think he is
-Maybe Queen would be a better fit because of his passing and offence but the more they discussed the less they liked that option
-Then Sam Vecenie brought Colin Boyles-Murray as CMB could play the small ball 5 and could fit nicely with the goal to a small 5 that could dribble, pass and shoot. He think that CMB would make a tons of sense with Toronto and he is a much better player than Mogbo.
-Then he says another option would be Bryant (they likes it better then Coward or Clifford)
-Quickly named Essengue
-Then Vecenie says that Jakucionis at #9 could be fun
He also finish by saying that as long shot Beringue

At #9 after considering a lot Maluach/Queen. I think that Vecenie was leaning with Murray-Boyles while Bryce Simon was leaning Carter Bryant.

[SpezNc]

If we ignore Masai's drafting/subsequent trades and just stick to the basics of the respective deals, then we can summarize it as: Raptors received 3 1st rounders for Siakam, and subsequently traded one of these first rounders for BI.

So to state that the deal was Siakam for BI is indeed incorrect. We only traded about 1/3 of the value we got back for Siakam for BI.

i think we should evaluate the trade based on the available information at the time.
We traded Siakam for Bruce Brown (matching salary) and 3 FRPs. We already knew at the time 2 were going to be pretty bad because the Pacers and OKC were good teams. 2026 was the upside pick and even that was a little iffy because i don't see the Pacers falling off next year.

You can always draft a star in the second round but that doesn't change the value of the pick. If Jayson Tatum was traded for the 41st pick, it's a bad trade even if the team ended up picking Jokic with that pick.

You can't fully evaluate a trade before all the assets are revealed for who they are IRL.

Trade looked bad last year when it was Pascal for Bruce Brown, Kelly Olynyk, Jordan Nwora, Ochai and 2 first round picks.

But when you realize that the trade became Brandon Ingram, Jakobe and Ochai...the value proposition is very different.

Pascal for BI might seem to favor Indiana especially because of recency bias since Pascal is in the finals and BI isn't...but no...the deal isn't nearly as lopsided today as it was a year ago.

For any podcaster to not recognize the other parts of that trade...I lose respect for their opinions immediately.

We also forget the trade exception that allowed us to get rid of Jalen McDaniels while acquiring Mitchell, Shead , Portland 2nd. And eventually Mitchell got us Lakers 2nd rounders.

Basically it’s like Siakam + future 2030 2nd rd for Ingram, Ja’Kobe, Agbaji, Shead , Pick 39 , Lakers 2nd in 2026.

To be simpler lets remove one 2nd seconds from each side

Siakam for Ingram, Ja’Kobe, Agabji, Shead and Pick 39

[Scase]

Also, thinks Scottie is LeBron James.

Lebron Like... they were very clear he not Lebron but the same type of player... Ya that was a interesting perspective

Of course. They BELABOURED that point!!

And it's a good comp. I personally always thought more of a Magic comp, considering his height/vision/passing/limited shooting and that fact that I like him with the ball in his hands orchestrating the offence --- not unlike LBJ at this stage of his career I suppose.

Magics ball handling compared to Scottie, is like watching an And1 mixtape vs a toddler. And that is one of his most defining features, it's what enabled most of his play. I don't see the magic comparison aside from 6'7 guy who has great court vision.

[WuTang_CMB]

I think we will show we are a better "fitting" team with players optimal for scottie this season when all these guys are healthy and playing for long stretches. BI is a scoring wing and Scottie is a passing wing - I don't see how that doesn't fit in a vacuum. IQ was injured a bunch and never found any groove. I think he bounces back next season.

I want to see what happens after the draft and any trades because the upside and fits will get better once Masai gets to wor

[MEDIC]

Also, thinks Scottie is LeBron James.

Lebron Like... they were very clear he not Lebron but the same type of player... Ya that was a interesting perspective

you can say any point forward is "lebron like". Ben Simmons kind of plays like Lebron too. That type of description doesn't mean anything.

Yeah..All they are really saying is, big strong wing that can handle in tranition & facilitate.

I think the Lebton comparison is what we all hoped he could become (LBJ lite). I see his game.moving in another direction now though. I think he needs to focus on what he is good at & become elite in those areas.

[MEDIC]

Biggest thing I agreed with is that they lack off ball talent. I also agree with them on GD. The expectation was that he could become a very good off the ball player. Unfortunately, he has focused on developing on ball skills, which I think is a mistake at this point in his career.

[Tripod]

Biggest thing I agreed with is that they lack off ball talent. I also agree with them on GD. The expectation was that he could become a very good off the ball player. Unfortunately, he has focused on developing on ball skills, which I think is a mistake at this point in his career.

But that's what development is.

Year 1 he struggled and they focused on getting him stronger and just c+s corner 3's and he improved a bunch.

Year 2 they had him as a motion guy running around like crazy and taking 3's above the break to work on expanding his range.

And yeah, they had him doing on ball stuff too because we were not focused on wins, but development.

Next year we will see a much shorter leash on what guys are doing as we switch to win mode. This was the year to do those development things more.

[MEDIC]

Biggest thing I agreed with is that they lack off ball talent. I also agree with them on GD. The expectation was that he could become a very good off the ball player. Unfortunately, he has focused on developing on ball skills, which I think is a mistake at this point in his career.

But that's what development is.

Year 1 he struggled and they focused on getting him stronger and just c+s corner 3's and he improved a bunch.

Year 2 they had him as a motion guy running around like crazy and taking 3's above the break to work on expanding his range.

And yeah, they had him doing on ball stuff too because we were not focused on wins, but development.

Next year we will see a much shorter leash on what guys are doing as we switch to win mode. This was the year to do those development things more.

Sure. Development can go several different directions though. He hasn't leaned to be geeat at anything. That's my concern. You don't take a shooter like.Gradey & make him a.jack of all trades, master of none type.player. You work cont8nually on deceloping an off.ball assasin.

He is going to be a role player on this team. Now that they are going for wins, there is a chance that he might find himaelf either traded or out of fhe rotation. He'll need to produce as an off ball threat this season & improve his defense substantially.

[Tripod]

Biggest thing I agreed with is that they lack off ball talent. I also agree with them on GD. The expectation was that he could become a very good off the ball player. Unfortunately, he has focused on developing on ball skills, which I think is a mistake at this point in his career.

But that's what development is.

Year 1 he struggled and they focused on getting him stronger and just c+s corner 3's and he improved a bunch.

Year 2 they had him as a motion guy running around like crazy and taking 3's above the break to work on expanding his range.

And yeah, they had him doing on ball stuff too because we were not focused on wins, but development.

Next year we will see a much shorter leash on what guys are doing as we switch to win mode. This was the year to do those development things more.

Sure. Development can go several different directions though. He hasn't leaned to be geeat at anything. That's my concern. You don't take a shooter like.Gradey & make him a.jack of all trades, master of none type.player. You work cont8nually on deceloping an off.ball assasin.

He is going to be a role player on this team. Now that they are going for wins, there is a chance that he might find himaelf either traded or out of fhe rotation. He'll need to produce as an off ball threat this season & improve his defense substantially.

100% agree that he is a role player and needs to be better/consistent. I was just pointing out that we "could" of had him just as a corner 3 shooter this year and he very well could have been an excellent one...like he was as a rookie after his 905 stint.

But they wanted to develop more out of him so used him like Curry for a chunk of the year....lol.

We have said since Day 1 he needs to get bigger and stronger. Unfortunately that takes time. There is no miracle change you can make to make that happen quicker, like altering your shot.

He 100% needs to be better defensively and being stronger will help with that as he gets shoved away easy and can't fight thru screens yet. Let's see what this offseason does for him.

For sure he could be moved as we do have a logjam starting to happen. Some also might call it great depth. I am looking forward to next season to see what improvements these guys make since we have so much youth. Internal competition is a good thing.

[Jadoogar]

If we ignore Masai's drafting/subsequent trades and just stick to the basics of the respective deals, then we can summarize it as: Raptors received 3 1st rounders for Siakam, and subsequently traded one of these first rounders for BI.

So to state that the deal was Siakam for BI is indeed incorrect. We only traded about 1/3 of the value we got back for Siakam for BI.

i think we should evaluate the trade based on the available information at the time.
We traded Siakam for Bruce Brown (matching salary) and 3 FRPs. We already knew at the time 2 were going to be pretty bad because the Pacers and OKC were good teams. 2026 was the upside pick and even that was a little iffy because i don't see the Pacers falling off next year.

You can always draft a star in the second round but that doesn't change the value of the pick. If Jayson Tatum was traded for the 41st pick, it's a bad trade even if the team ended up picking Jokic with that pick.

You can't fully evaluate a trade before all the assets are revealed for who they are IRL.

Trade looked bad last year when it was Pascal for Bruce Brown, Kelly Olynyk, Jordan Nwora, Ochai and 2 first round picks.

But when you realize that the trade became Brandon Ingram, Jakobe and Ochai...the value proposition is very different.

Pascal for BI might seem to favor Indiana especially because of recency bias since Pascal is in the finals and BI isn't...but no...the deal isn't nearly as lopsided today as it was a year ago.

For any podcaster to not recognize the other parts of that trade...I lose respect for their opinions immediately.

i disagree. you should evaluate them as separate trades.
Siakam for 2 poor FRPs and Ochai is meh value. It was not a great trade

2026 Pacers pick for BI is good value, this was a good trade.