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Anyone think this is true?(hope it is)

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Anyone think this is true?(hope it is) 

Post#1 » by ItsaVC3 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:37 am

i was looking threw this web site and what ever is said in this site i believe

According to the New York Times, the Twins have lessened their demands for Johan Santana and are no longer asking for Ian Kennedy along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera.

Instead, the newspaper reports that Minnesota is willing accept Jeffrey Marquez in place of Kennedy. Marquez isn't in Kennedy's class as a prospect, but he's still a solid young arm with good upside and if the Twins trade Santana to the Yankees they'd be doing so primarily in order to get their hands on Hughes

and if we do this what happens in center field the guy that they would have given 4 yr was roward and hes in san fran. so any ideas?
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Post#2 » by VinnyTheMick » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:59 am

I don't want to give up Hughes.
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Re: Anyone think this is true?(hope it is) 

Post#3 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:04 am

ItsaVC3 wrote:i was looking threw this web site and what ever is said in this site i believe

According to the New York Times, the Twins have lessened their demands for Johan Santana and are no longer asking for Ian Kennedy along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera.

Instead, the newspaper reports that Minnesota is willing accept Jeffrey Marquez in place of Kennedy. Marquez isn't in Kennedy's class as a prospect, but he's still a solid young arm with good upside and if the Twins trade Santana to the Yankees they'd be doing so primarily in order to get their hands on Hughes

and if we do this what happens in center field the guy that they would have given 4 yr was roward and hes in san fran. so any ideas?


Marquez was offered as part of the package with Hughes and Cabrera before the Yankees decided to breakoff of talks with the Twins.
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Re: Anyone think this is true?(hope it is) 

Post#4 » by #1knickfan » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:30 pm

ItsaVC3 wrote:i was looking threw this web site and what ever is said in this site i believe

According to the New York Times, the Twins have lessened their demands for Johan Santana and are no longer asking for Ian Kennedy along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera.

Instead, the newspaper reports that Minnesota is willing accept Jeffrey Marquez in place of Kennedy. Marquez isn't in Kennedy's class as a prospect, but he's still a solid young arm with good upside and if the Twins trade Santana to the Yankees they'd be doing so primarily in order to get their hands on Hughes

and if we do this what happens in center field the guy that they would have given 4 yr was roward and hes in san fran. so any ideas?


Well if we give up Cabrera the only options are:

free agents
Mike Cameron-missing the first 25 games because he was caught using steriods
Corey Patterson-doesn't draw enough walks
Nook Logan- I believe he was mentioned in the Mitchell report as well Kenny Lofton- Will never be a Yankee again
A bunch of turds.

Trades
Ken Griffey Jr- Probably the best and most realistic trade option
Gary Matthews Jr-An expensive free agent mistake by the Angels. With all the big money they have spent this winter including 90 million for another new centerfielder we could probably get him on the cheap with the Angels picking up much of the tab.
Juan Pierre-Speedy but owns a throwing arm weaker than Bernie but probably expendable in Los Angeles.
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Post#5 » by #1knickfan » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:09 pm

After the Santana deal maybe something along the lines of Mike Mussina for Juan Pierre deal would make sense. Pierre would give our lineup more speed while Mussina would give the Dodgers a veteran starting pitcher they could use. The Yanks would save a little money up front while dumping an extra pitcher who was almost totally ineffective last season.
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Post#6 » by 34Celtic » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:29 pm

We'd definitly put Johnny back in center before adding Juan Pierre, Corey Patterson, Nook Logan, Ken Griffey, or Gary Mathews out there.....Cameron would be intriguing (amphetimines, not steroids I believe you were looking for)
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Post#7 » by Jitpal » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:36 pm

I would not deal Phil Hughes for anyone straight up. A package centered around Kennedy I can get behind otherwise I would just gamble that Santana stays a Twin for 2008 and he is available as a free agent. -Jitpal
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Post#8 » by Lconte17 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:43 pm

Jitpal wrote:I would not deal Phil Hughes for anyone straight up. A package centered around Kennedy I can get behind otherwise I would just gamble that Santana stays a Twin for 2008 and he is available as a free agent. -Jitpal



As Jitpal states so perfectly, i wouldnt trade Hughes straight up for anyone in the majors right now.

if the twins want Kennedy, Marquez, Cabrera and Igawa plus some cash... id do that, but i DONT want to trade Hughes. i think the only other young pitcher id even consider having over hughes is David Price. So i wont trade hughes for anyone
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Post#9 » by nykgeneralmanager » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:46 am

Although I'm against trading Hughes, that isn't even the problem here to me. More disturbing is that we are forced to give up Hughes while Boston isn't even offering up Buchholz. I guess since Joba is our #1 and Hughes is our #2, he is compared to Lester since he is Boston's #2 young pitcher. However, that isn't even a fair comparison, because Hughes is as good as Boston's #1 if not better. If I'm Steinbrenner, I tell the Twins there is no way we will give up Hughes if Boston's main piece is John freakin Lester. And if that means he goes to Boston, then so be it. We don't need to gut ourselves.
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Post#10 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:28 pm

I wouldn't trade Hughes either. And if I were the Twins, I wouldn't trade Santana to any team in the AL, where he could come back and kill them in the playoffs every year. I would be looking to move him to the Mets or the Dodgers.
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Post#11 » by cmaff051 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:01 pm

Hughes and Melky Cabrera for Santana is an easy trade to make. I really wish people would realize that Hughes' best case scenario isn't even as good as Santana has been the previous 5 years. I've followed the kid since he's been in Tampa, I love the kid, but let's be realisitic
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Post#12 » by nykgeneralmanager » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:44 pm

cmaff051 wrote:Hughes and Melky Cabrera for Santana is an easy trade to make. I really wish people would realize that Hughes' best case scenario isn't even as good as Santana has been the previous 5 years. I've followed the kid since he's been in Tampa, I love the kid, but let's be realisitic

Nobody is saying Hughes will be anything like Santana, but how many great years does Santana have left? These guys aren't the same age. When Santana is 32 and MAYBE still an ace, Hughes will still be a baby at 24 years old. For another 2 great seasons of Santana or so, it just isn't worth it.
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Post#13 » by TKF » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:40 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Nobody is saying Hughes will be anything like Santana, but how many great years does Santana have left? These guys aren't the same age. When Santana is 32 and MAYBE still an ace, Hughes will still be a baby at 24 years old. For another 2 great seasons of Santana or so, it just isn't worth it.



I agree, and I think people miss that point, they need to stop looking at Hughes now, and what he will be by time he is 23 or24... Honestly I would be happy to hear that johan is staying with the twins all season...
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Post#14 » by PR07 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:53 pm

I think I'd make this trade. First, there is no guarantee that Hughes will ever become an ace much less reach the level that Santana is on, probably the odds are against it. Second, like it or not...this roster is geared to win now, and I think we are an ace away from being a contender. By the time our young trio will develop, our position players will be old and the offense will be lacking. I'm not saying we trade the farm or go all in, but I do think the farm system is deep enough where we can lose Hughes and a few midlevel prospects (especially with us getting two high draft picks in the coming draft). I think the point of stockpiling young arms is not just to develop them all (afterall, a starting staff is only 5 pitchers), but to be able to trade some of them if a truly special player comes along like a Johan Santana. Everyone can use young pitching, so in this way, young pitching is like a universal currency. I like Hughes, but I think a trio of Santana, Wang, and Pettitte is nasty in the postseason especially if you could put Kennedy-Moose in the 4th slot...and have Joba coming out of the pen.
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Post#15 » by cmaff051 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:03 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Nobody is saying Hughes will be anything like Santana, but how many great years does Santana have left? These guys aren't the same age. When Santana is 32 and MAYBE still an ace, Hughes will still be a baby at 24 years old. For another 2 great seasons of Santana or so, it just isn't worth it.


How many great, Santana-like years does Hughes have left? The odds are that he has none. The odds are that he won't even come close to being as good as Santana in his career.

You get 4-5 good years of Santana in exchange for Hughes with our win-now roster and nobody will be complaining.
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Post#16 » by #1knickfan » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:16 pm

34Celtic wrote:We'd definitly put Johnny back in center before adding Juan Pierre, Corey Patterson, Nook Logan, Ken Griffey, or Gary Mathews out there.....Cameron would be intriguing (amphetimines, not steroids I believe you were looking for)


Well I don't know about that. Pierre may not be all that great himself but he's younger than Johnny and faster so able to cover more space in Center. That's not too bad a risk considering I'd only deal a guy who costs more money and whose inability to pitch effectively killed us in many games last year. I would prefer Cameron as well but I think Pierre would be an interesting risk.
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Post#17 » by nykgeneralmanager » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:23 pm

cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



How many great, Santana-like years does Hughes have left? The odds are that he has none. The odds are that he won't even come close to being as good as Santana in his career.

You get 4-5 good years of Santana in exchange for Hughes with our win-now roster and nobody will be complaining.

I don't want to throw away 15 years of Hughes for 5 years of Santana, regardless of how good Hughes becomes. If Hughes becomes even a #2 pitcher it will be a bad trade production wise over 15 years. And as expendable as Melky is, lets not forget that he is our centerfielder. If we are a win now team, you like our chances of winning with Damon in CF and Matsui in LF for 162 games? Thats if both are even healthy enough to play all year, and not counting the 15 games they will each need at DH. Our OFFENSE is built to win now but that is it, our pitching core is young (other than Pettitte) and other than Rivera, the youth will make its way into the bullpen this season. Just because we want to win now doesn't mean this team is necessarily built to win now. Sure adding Santna increases our chances of winning now, but it would do the same for any team. What we have built with the youg pitching core is too much to break up IMO, and the fact that Melky IS our starting CF (even if only for another year or two) is going way too far under the radar. People are throwing him away as if we have Torri Hunter about to sign, but we are replacing him with Damon (who is obviously worse defensively, will need to DH a number of games, and will see his usual time on the DL). How much better does this trade REALLY make us?
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Post#18 » by cmaff051 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:36 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I don't want to throw away 15 years of Hughes for 5 years of Santana, regardless of how good Hughes becomes. If Hughes becomes even a #2 pitcher it will be a bad trade production wise over 15 years. And as expendable as Melky is, lets not forget that he is our centerfielder. If we are a win now team, you like our chances of winning with Damon in CF and Matsui in LF for 162 games? Thats if both are even healthy enough to play all year, and not counting the 15 games they will each need at DH. Our OFFENSE is built to win now but that is it, our pitching core is young (other than Pettitte) and other than Rivera, the youth will make its way into the bullpen this season. Just because we want to win now doesn't mean this team is necessarily built to win now. Sure adding Santna increases our chances of winning now, but it would do the same for any team. What we have built with the youg pitching core is too much to break up IMO, and the fact that Melky IS our starting CF (even if only for another year or two) is going way too far under the radar. People are throwing him away as if we have Torri Hunter about to sign, but we are replacing him with Damon (who is obviously worse defensively, will need to DH a number of games, and will see his usual time on the DL). How much better does this trade REALLY make us?


This trade makes us infinitely better for the next 5 years. The only pitcher we give away is Hughes and we replace him with a horse who is still in his prime. Sorry for not caring about 10 years down the road, but that's a crappy reason as to why we shouldn't trade for Santana. Melky is at his highest value ever, he's not any good, and while we will lose a decent fielding centerfielder, we will make up the difference in better pitching.

I really don't think you realize how much of a burden having 3 pitchers with inning limitations will be next year. And I don't think you realize that the learning curve for young pitchers isn't always the same. You are assuming that Hughes will develop into a frontline pitcher. It might not happen.
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Post#19 » by Chach » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:59 pm

Too bad the Hughes/Melky/Marquez package isn't enough to top the Red Sox offer. If it was, Santana would be in pinstripes right now. The Twins keep hoping for the Yankees to add Kennedy to the deal, thereby topping the Sox offer, and that will force the Sox to include Ellsbury with Lester. Neither the Sox or Yanks are blinking right now and it's going to go down pretty soon. mahalo
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Post#20 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:21 am

The question is how many Santana-like years Santana has left, not how many Hughes has left. Santana is coming off a bad year (for him), and there is no assurance that he will be as good as Hughes going forward, or for how long.
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