Magic / Celtics

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm hoping the kind folk in the T&T community can help me gage value and bridge the gap as needed

Roughly I was thinking about...

BOS trades
Kristaps Porzingis
Payton Pritchard

ORL trades
Jonathan Isaac
Wendell Carter Jr
#25 pick
25 & 27 BOS SRPs

Why for ORL? It's a bit risky but, if healthy, Zinger complements their existing front court well. Plus Isaac carries the same injury concerns more or less. Pritchard fills a need and would likely see 28-30 min as a super 6th man. Overall it's a move in line with their win now philosophy.

Why for BOS? Building draft stock for a Tatum-less team in limbo (added bonus the 2nd round picks are their own). I also like the idea of WCJ growing under Horford's mentorship for a year.

[cl2117]

Just purely from a value standpoint I think Boston is owed more here. If you call KP for WCJ/Isaac a wash (I'm not sure you do but just for argument's sake), it's Pritchard for #25 and a pair of 2nds which isn't enough given that he's on an absolute bargain of a contract the next 3 years and just won 6th man of the year.

From a direction standpoint I really don't like it for Boston. They shave $12m off the books but $7m of that is Pritchard who far outperforms the money you pay him. I like either Isaac or WCJ as a potential target for the C's but not both. It's a lot of money to tie up in a pair of bigs with question marks. I wouldn't be surprised if either took a jump and became a key starter but I also wouldn't be surprised if they ended up as dead weight on expensive 4 year contracts. It just feels like it's a step back for pieces that are also risky as well as #25 in a draft when they've already got #28 and #32.

For Orlando I think the OP is a no brainer with Pritchard included. Ignoring that element, the KP roll of the dice makes a lot of sense but can also see it being pushing the rest of their chips in too soon. If healthy, always big if, he'd give them a really elite presence up front and the kind of firepower overall that could help them take the East. He's expiring as well so it creates room for when some of their larger extensions kick in. At the same time if it really is only a 1 year tryst with KP and then he moves on, is the juice worth the squeeze? On the one hand the East is really weak and they could make their way out with Bane/KP added, on the other hand it's very possible he's in street clothes and you wish you kept that powder dry for lower upside but more reliable support.

I think drop Pritchard and focus on a KP to Magic swap with C's only taking back 1 out of the two Orlando big men and team X coming in to take the cast-off (possibly delivering some PG depth that way for Orlando).

[Skybox]

Now this one I'd jump on...Pritchard is the difference maker value-wise. KP is enticing, but we know he's missing a LOT of time...by design...that's just maintenance, but the upside is, of course, enormous.

A reserve backcourt of Pritchard and Anthony Black backing up Bane and Suggs

[Mavrelous]

I don't Celtics trading Pritchard at all, he's on a bargain deal and can give you 30 MPG, exactly the type of player you need when you're a 2nd Apron team.

[orlando_joe]

would not trade wcj and isaac at all for prozingis...but man you add pritchard and add the first and 2-2nds ..would almost have to do it..really scared of health and would not sign prozingis ..he would want to much..but for next season thats a full team..would have to give jett away some place but can make it work and keep moe and houstan

[hugepatsfan]

I don't see BOS dealing Pritchard. Maybe I'm being naive, but I truly believe he's going to scale up well this year with Tatum out and Jrue presumably being moved too. His per 36 last year was 18.1/4.4/4.9. Now, you can't just take per 36 and project, but in the 33 games he played 30-39 minutes, his averages were 17.6/4.8/4.5 on 48.5%/40.4% shooting splits. Every time he's had had to scale his role up due to injuries, he produces at the same rate. I think with a year of being "featured" more in BOS, they're gong to be looking at a hugely valuable piece next year.

I do really like the bones of Porzingis/WCJ swap though if ORL can find palatable deal filler wise to dump on other teams....

WCJ: "meh" player, signed cheap this year and then sorta expensive for what he is long term, serious availability concerns
Porzingis: high end upside, huge salary for one year then expiring, serious availability concerns

ORL: upside to compete NOW this year, clean-ish payroll now, murkier longer term though
BOS: due for a down year with Tatum's injury, messy payroll now but (assuming separate Jrue trade) clean long term

IMO, ORL's roster and cap sheet fit Porzingis better than WCJ due to his higher upside and shorter deal that they can sustain the high salary on for one year. BOS's roster and cap sheet call for a lesser player signed long term with a lower salary this year. I just like the swap for both sides for what I think their roster/caps sheet call for.

BOS gets: WCJ
ORL gets: Porzingis
3rd team gets: ORL filler

This issue is that ORL doesn't really have any "filler" that's worthless and I believe they're hard capped at the 1st apron now. I'm not sure there's a deal out there to fill in above that doesn't cost ORL more than they want to give, because I do think Isaac is worth keeping.

[brackdan70]

From a value perspective this under rates Pritchard significantly especially considering what Bane was just traded for.
For the Cs it adds a lot of salary in 26/27 and beyond which is problematic as that is an opportunity to greatly reduce the tax burden.
To fix this it’s probably WCJ to the Cs, find a third team to take Isaac for those 2nds and add another 1st going to the Cs for Pritchard.
So Cs Out- KP and PP
In WCJ, 25, and a future first

Orl out WCJ, Isaac, 25, Future first, 2 seconds
In KP and PP

Third team in Isaac and 2 seconds
Out fake 2nd?

Third

[Skybox]

I'd love to take a swing at KP and he's expiring, so even the worst scenario isn't all that terrifying...but there's a lot of risk in ORL sending out their two best defensive bigs for a guy that could conceivably miss the whole season at the drop of a hat and leave ORL without money to spend on a replacement. You can say that WCJ and Isaac have injury risks of their own, but they don't touch KP in that regard.

Pritchard is more than enough sweetener...probably unrealistically so. Pritchard, all things considered, is more valuable than Jrue or KP as a chip, imo.

Orl can't absorb salary either, so the whole thing is moot as that's really what BOS is after. If BOS isn't saving money THIS year, they're not interested.

I think ORL, by declining all of their team options, has qualified for the MLE, so...

Trade #1:
ORL sends: Goga, Isaac, Jett Howard (expiring)
BOS sends: KP

Trade #2: (completely unrelated "wink")
ORL sends: #46
BOS sends: Hauser (into MLE slot)

[orlando_joe]

I'd love to take a swing at KP and he's expiring, so even the worst scenario isn't all that terrifying...but there's a lot of risk in ORL sending out their two best defensive bigs for a guy that could conceivably miss the whole season at the drop of a hat and leave ORL without money to spend on a replacement. You can say that WCJ and Isaac have injury risks of their own, but they don't touch KP in that regard.

Pritchard is more than enough sweetener...probably unrealistically so. Pritchard, all things considered, is more valuable than Jrue or KP as a chip, imo.

Orl can't absorb salary either, so the whole thing is moot as that's really what BOS is after. If BOS isn't saving money THIS year, they're not interested.

I think ORL, by declining all of their team options, has qualified for the MLE, so...

Trade #1:
ORL sends: Goga, Isaac, Jett Howard (expiring)
BOS sends: KP

Trade #2: (completely unrelated "wink")
ORL sends: #46
BOS sends: Hauser (into MLE slot)

value might be fine...but it all falls apart without pritchard its his contract fit and ballhandling need

[Skybox]

I'd love to take a swing at KP and he's expiring, so even the worst scenario isn't all that terrifying...but there's a lot of risk in ORL sending out their two best defensive bigs for a guy that could conceivably miss the whole season at the drop of a hat and leave ORL without money to spend on a replacement. You can say that WCJ and Isaac have injury risks of their own, but they don't touch KP in that regard.

Pritchard is more than enough sweetener...probably unrealistically so. Pritchard, all things considered, is more valuable than Jrue or KP as a chip, imo.

Orl can't absorb salary either, so the whole thing is moot as that's really what BOS is after. If BOS isn't saving money THIS year, they're not interested.

I think ORL, by declining all of their team options, has qualified for the MLE, so...

Trade #1:
ORL sends: Goga, Isaac, Jett Howard (expiring)
BOS sends: KP

Trade #2: (completely unrelated "wink")
ORL sends: #46
BOS sends: Hauser (into MLE slot)

value might be fine...but it all falls apart without pritchard its his contract fit and ballhandling need

Pritchard certainly my preference, but too much to ask...KP, even expiring, is problematic because we might not have space (even after his expired) to find a replacement

[orlando_joe]

I'd love to take a swing at KP and he's expiring, so even the worst scenario isn't all that terrifying...but there's a lot of risk in ORL sending out their two best defensive bigs for a guy that could conceivably miss the whole season at the drop of a hat and leave ORL without money to spend on a replacement. You can say that WCJ and Isaac have injury risks of their own, but they don't touch KP in that regard.

Pritchard is more than enough sweetener...probably unrealistically so. Pritchard, all things considered, is more valuable than Jrue or KP as a chip, imo.

Orl can't absorb salary either, so the whole thing is moot as that's really what BOS is after. If BOS isn't saving money THIS year, they're not interested.

I think ORL, by declining all of their team options, has qualified for the MLE, so...

Trade #1:
ORL sends: Goga, Isaac, Jett Howard (expiring)
BOS sends: KP

Trade #2: (completely unrelated "wink")
ORL sends: #46
BOS sends: Hauser (into MLE slot)

value might be fine...but it all falls apart without pritchard its his contract fit and ballhandling need

Pritchard certainly my preference, but too much to ask...KP, even expiring, is problematic because we might not have space (even after his expired) to find a replacement

yea i dont want prozingis or hauser...it was all about pritchard ....i would pass and just try to fill ballhandling 6th man type other way

[jbk1234]

Are the Celtics under the 2nd apron after this trade, because of not, they can't aggregate. More importantly, having Pritchard on the roster allows them to dump Jrue without worrying about getting a PG back.