2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[prime1time]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

Bailey's camp has expressed the belief that teams such as the Wizards, New Orleans Pelicans, or Brooklyn Nets, picking No. 6, 7 and 8, will be aggressive looking to move up in the draft and select him.

[pcbothwel]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

Bailey's camp has expressed the belief that teams such as the Wizards, New Orleans Pelicans, or Brooklyn Nets, picking No. 6, 7 and 8, will be aggressive looking to move up in the draft and select him.

But why?… Even if he hits, he’s Rashard Lewis/MPJ. So he’s the 3rd/4th best player on a contender if things go well. Hes Rui/Wiggins if it doesn’t, and possibly even worse if it all falls apart.
How anyone thinks he’s better than Tre is beyond me.
it could be argued that coward is a better bet of a similar prototype at much better value.

[nate33]

the fact that you think you closed the arguments on 18 and 19 year olds is funny.... Go look up how different these guys will both look in a few seasons.....

Have you seen any reports about the Spurs considering Fears? If you have feel free to share

No but the prior comments weren't about that, you brought those stats up in relation to there being no comparison to them as players based on stats in their year 18 and 19 seasons and stated that was the end of it.... I said it's not because you don't know what either of them will look like at 21 or 22....

What they both share in common is an inate ability to get to the rim seemingly at will, albeit via differing methods... Harper is bigger and more crafty, Fears is faster and also crafty but in a much faster manner...
They both need to work on their outside shooting but Fears was a kid up until right before his frosh season.....I think it's hard to judge a guy who's still physically growing so much....
Just look at his film when he was a jr in HS.... He looks like he's 11.... He still looks like he's only about 16 facially but he's gotten alot quicker, faster and is more explosive off the jump as he's getting taller and gaining more strength just getting older....

Harper being older is of course more physically developed, plus of course you know the NBA genetics and lessons advantage he has over most prospects...
I expect him to be exceptional, because he's very seasoned for such a young prospect....
I really wanted him here, and I thought his ability to score was more of an elite skill than anything Cooper Flagg currently has in his arsenal.... So trust I love the kid.... We unfortunately don't have the number 2 pick at the moment to get him....

Fears isn't anywhere near as developed as Harper and that's what's exciting about the kid... As much as I love the Rod Strick comps, this kid is faster than Rod was...

But they are not the same kind of guard... Fears is not an easy comp to any of the guys I see listed for him......
What is known is his first step is elite, he gets to the line an inordinate amount of times relative to his and position...
He has decent form on his shot, and he has to work on finishing through contact more consistently....
I think maybe year one he would be very frustrating at first, as he'd be very inefficient but I think he'd progress as the season went along and he got used to the speed of the game and realizes what his advantages are or aren't, and adjusted to the NBA 3point line....

All this may be moot if we can get Ace, who I think might end up as one of the best players from this class if not the best POTENTIALLY!!!!!!!

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you can't just ignore defense when talking about the Harper versus Fears comparison.

With the way the NBA has evolved these last few years, the reality is that a team's defense is only as good as its weakest link. There are at least a dozen teams in this league, most of them playoff teams, that are built around a great iso scorer and spacing. Those teams hunt your weakest link by running screen actions to force a switch. If your weakest defender can't at least hold his own as an isolation defender in space, then you will lose.

Yes, we need an offensive "engine" so we can do this to other teams, but the key is, that offensive engine also needs to at least be an adequate defender. What makes Harper an elite prospect is not just that he appears to have all the necessary offensive skill to bend a defense, it's that it comes in the package of a 6'4.5" wing with a 6'10.5" wingspan who weighs 213 pounds. He will have the size and length to hold up in switches and therefore match up with the other great teams in the league. A guy like that surrounded by good 3&D players and a rim protector is the recipe to win a championship.

Fears is not like that. Fears is 6'2.5" with a 6'5" wingspan and weighs 180 pounds. When he gets switched onto Jason Tatum, SGA, Luka or Cade, he will have no chance at guarding them. This is the MASSIVE difference between the two players as prospects. With a guy like Fears, even if he pans out, you end up with a fundamentally flawed team that looks more like the Atlanta Hawks than the Boston Celtics.

I'm not saying it absolutely cannot work, I'm just saying it's very difficult. If you have enough talent at other positions, maybe you can put together a NY Knicks/Cleveland Cavs type of team, but it requires so much talent around your star that you can't keep it together; and you will probably still lose the playoff series against the wrong matchup.

THAT is why Harper is a much better prospect than Fears. Harper's high end upside is somebody like Harden, Luka or Tatum - an elite offensive engine who can be average or better on defense, at least in limited spurts. And one who doesn't require extraordinary players around him to be successful.

[Wizardspride]

Random guy on twitter

I think Haliburton is just speculating but he's not just a random guy.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=BSM57D-bOyWnQiT5rwII6w&s=19

[nate33]

Excerpt from David Aldridge at The Athletic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6430848/2025/06/19/nba-draft-confidential-wings-2025/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=7030725&source=dailyemail

Here's what is said about Noa Essengue:

Noa Essengue | 6-10 forward | 18 years old | Ratiopharm Ulm

Eastern Conference executive No. 3: He’s coming on real strong. They’re going to play deep into the playoffs, and he has a really, really good role. He’s shooting the ball better. The getting to the rim and stuff like that, he’s been good at that. He has some pretty freakish dimensions. He has a bunch of kids that he grew up playing with, and they’re all having success. Arguably, he’s more talented than them. He’s more talented than (Zaccharie) Risacher. If you had those guys in a gym together, Noa’s more talented. He does things and you’re like, damn, he’s like Scottie Pippen. It’ll be a team like Washington that’s patient and can wait, but in a year or two, people are gonna be like, “He went, what? Nine? Ten?”

He actually has a decent feel. He can attack a closeout and get to the rim, and he can make an open shot. You can hide him as your fifth-best player in a starting lineup. He can guard his yard, and at the other end, you can’t not guard him. He’ll cut and he’ll put it on your head. And if you don’t guard him, he can make a catch-and-shoot shot. He’s kind of safe in the way that he’s not gonna bust. His worst-case scenario, he’s a long 3-and-D guy that has a good feel to pass the ball and cut. The upside is, when the ball skills start to come and the defense starts to come … once he puts on weight, he’ll be able to guard bigs. … Low key, he was talking s— (at Ratiopharm). His buddy (guard Ben Saraf) was struggling. He was, like, let me help you out with this. These kids started coming at him, and he was like, “Nah, you can’t get your shot off against me.” He’s long, he has quick feet. If his mentality is right, he comes over to the NBA and looks around and starts to measure himself and goes, “I’m better than a lot of these MFs.” If he has that mentality, be careful with him.

Eastern Conference executive No. 4: He’s playing better at home in the playoffs than on the road. Long, athletic, can run. He’s been, for lack of a better term, very French over the years, but he’s playing with more effort. I’ve just seen too many times him not impacting the game like he should. Somebody is going to take him and bet on the upside. He can impact the game just by running the floor. I just can’t trust that he’s going to play hard. All of a sudden, we’re two months out from the draft, and he starts playing great.

Western Conference executive No. 3: The wild card of the draft. Long wingspan, high motor. Needs to develop his body. Kid has some (Pippen) in him. He’s my wild card in this draft. Can go anywhere from (No.) 5 to 15, I think. Hard worker. Will develop an offensive game eventually because of how dedicated he is.

Pretty high praise!

[NatP4]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

Bailey's camp has expressed the belief that teams such as the Wizards, New Orleans Pelicans, or Brooklyn Nets, picking No. 6, 7 and 8, will be aggressive looking to move up in the draft and select him.

But why?… Even if he hits, he’s Rashard Lewis/MPJ. So he’s the 3rd/4th best player on a contender if things go well. Hes Rui/Wiggins if it doesn’t, and possibly even worse if it all falls apart.
How anyone thinks he’s better than Tre is beyond me.
it could be argued that coward is a better bet of a similar prototype at much better value.

I maybe think there’s a 10-15% chance that Bailey hits a higher ceiling -Tatum/Ingram type, but still, Knueppel is LIKELY to become a Desmond Bane type player in the NBA, I’d have a hard time passing on that or trading down for a CMB/Essengue.

Don’t think Tre will be on the board at 6.

[tontoz]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

But why?… Even if he hits, he’s Rashard Lewis/MPJ. So he’s the 3rd/4th best player on a contender if things go well. Hes Rui/Wiggins if it doesn’t, and possibly even worse if it all falls apart.
How anyone thinks he’s better than Tre is beyond me.
it could be argued that coward is a better bet of a similar prototype at much better value.

I maybe think there’s a 10-15% chance that Bailey hits a higher ceiling -Tatum/Ingram type, but still, Knueppel is likely to become a Desmond Bane type player in the NBA, I’d have a hard time passing on that or trading down for a CMB/Essengue.

Don’t think Tre will be on the board at 6.

Bane is a high level shooter off the dribble. Kon hasn't shown any ability to shoot off the dribble at Duke. Bane isn't a defensive liability. I expect Kon will be given how slow he is.

[nate33]

Excerpt from David Aldridge at The Athletic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6430848/2025/06/19/nba-draft-confidential-wings-2025/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=7030725&source=dailyemail

Ace Bailey | 6-8 wing/forward | 18 years old | Rutgers

College assistant coach No. 3 (his team played Rutgers): I like Ace a lot. I think he’s a pretty one-sided ballplayer. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of desire on defense. I hate criticizing kids on stuff like that when I haven’t coached them. I don’t know what they were asking or what they were trying to get him to do. Maybe he was doing what they were asking him to do. He certainly has the measurables to be a good defender. He’s got good athleticism, he’s got good length, he’s got quickness. He seems to be a pretty smart kid. He’s a hard shot maker, which always worries me in terms of replicating that at that level, ’cause he’s not that strong, and he’s not going to knock guys off their spot. And he’s not going to be the best athlete on the floor, either, anymore.

I love what he could be, (but) there are some things I worry about in terms of being a real dude in the NBA. Ace, I worry about physically, being able to translate, certainly next year. But there’s definitely real potential there. Shoots off either foot, shoots off either hip, shoots off the move, shoots off the bounce. He should probably be a better rebounder. Not much of a playmaker for others, but he’s a scorer.

Western Conference executive No. 1: There (are) questions about how good his feel for the game is, and how locked in he is, and the team was disappointing, and he was a little up and down. But on his game, you could sit there and squint and tell yourself you’re getting some version of Durant. His ability to get to his spot in the midrange, you can’t really alter or block that shot. He’s got a ton of offensive talent. Sometimes, these one-and-done guys, that freshman year just doesn’t click where they are. … I would like them to at least make the NCAA tournament. I mean, you have two top-three picks, and you can’t be one of the top 68 teams? But I don’t know (if) that matters anymore. Anthony Edwards couldn’t do that for Georgia. LaMelo Ball’s team was way below .500 in Australia when he left.

The playmaking, I feel in part is not there. My experience has been while we can get guys slimmer, put weight on, get them stronger, a lot of guys improve their jump shots and everything. But if that (playmaking) is not there, we don’t have a computer chip to insert to get them to do that. … That’s not going to improve. You have to — have to, in almost all cases — bring that to the NBA, or you just don’t have it.

College assistant coach No. 4 (his team played Rutgers): He is a fun-loving kid who’s always got a smile on his face most of the time. They said he acts like a (kid) sometimes. Tremendous talent, but very young. He had an incredible game against us. He made all kinds of shots. But I’ve seen him disappear in games where he had two or four points. Their team is hard to figure out. They’re going to have the second and third pick in the draft, and they didn’t make the tournament. His player comp is Jabari Smith, who may never be a bona fide starter in the NBA. But you’ve got to remember he’s only (18). He’s got great size. He can really shoot it deep, but his maturity and decision making are very suspect. I’m higher on him than some of the others.

College head coach No. 2 (his team played Rutgers): Has to get stronger. In college, he can play three/four. In the NBA, he has to be a two/three. Tough shot maker. Shot quality might have to improve. Really good shot maker off the bounce.

Western Conference executive No. 2: Is he a talented kid? Yes. But he better get to the right environment. … If he gets in a dysfunctional situation, he could be out of the league in five years.

Man, that's some pretty cold water being thrown onto the Ace hype.

With Ace, it's obviously going to boil down to his character. Most of his flaws on the basketball court don't concern me too much. Teams will have to guard him so close that he should be able to develop effective ways to get to the rim. The playmaking may never be good enough to be a number 1 option, but he could be a rich man's Klay Thompson and that's still an All-Star.

The real question about him is whether or not to attribute his inconsistency and lack of focus and drive to his youth; or is it likely to be a persistent character trait? If the Wizards do draft him, I hope they've interviewed him and done their research.

[TGW]

Re: Essengue

I've read that he didn't play hard the entire season. Other scouts say he's high motor. Obviously, most people have only seen highlights and clips. Which is it?

[NatP4]

Bane is a high level shooter off the dribble. Kon hasn't shown any ability to shoot off the dribble at Duke. Bane isn't a defensive liability. I expect Kon will be given how slow he is.

Bane was also a 4 year college player that didn’t start/only played 800 minutes as a freshman.

People talk about Knueppel like he’s 23 or something. He’s going to continue to get better/show more on ball stuff. His synergy off ball/shooting numbers are absurd.

I’m a coin flip on Kon/Ace. Trading down is the better option IMO.

[tontoz]

Excerpt from David Aldridge at The Athletic:

Man, that's some pretty cold water being thrown onto the Ace hype.

With Ace, it's obviously going to boil down to his character. Most of his flaws on the basketball court don't concern me too much. Teams will have to guard him so close that he should be able to develop effective ways to get to the rim. The playmaking may never be good enough to be a number 1 option, but he could be a rich man's Klay Thompson and that's still an All-Star.

The real question about him is whether or not to attribute his inconsistency and lack of focus and drive to his youth; or is it likely to be a persistent character trait? If the Wizards do draft him, I hope they've interviewed him and done their research.

I think some of that is nonsense. Lazy on defense? I have to question how much they actually watched him. The guy i watched had a high motor on D and was also very vocal.

If seen him hit polished floaters with either hand, and a nice jump hook. The lane was just crowded because their spacing was bad. In the NBA it will be easier for him to get to the rim.

He also moves well without the ball, both cutting to the rim and behind the 3 pt line. Big lob threat.

I certainly don't see him as a number one option but i think he can be a legit 2nd option who can play D.

[NatP4]

Re: Essengue

I've read that he didn't play hard the entire season. Other scouts say he's high motor. Obviously, most people have only seen highlights and clips. Which is it?

Watch on YouTube

Been slowly working my way through this video. I see a guy that plays hard and has a good motor. Defense clips are towards the end/last 50 minutes or so.

[tontoz]

Bane is a high level shooter off the dribble. Kon hasn't shown any ability to shoot off the dribble at Duke. Bane isn't a defensive liability. I expect Kon will be given how slow he is.

Bane was also a 4 year college player that didn’t start/only played 800 minutes as a freshman.

People talk about Knueppel like he’s 23 or something. He’s going to continue to get better/show more on ball stuff. His synergy off ball/shooting numbers are absurd.

And his shooting off the dribble sucked.

[nate33]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

But why?… Even if he hits, he’s Rashard Lewis/MPJ. So he’s the 3rd/4th best player on a contender if things go well. Hes Rui/Wiggins if it doesn’t, and possibly even worse if it all falls apart.
How anyone thinks he’s better than Tre is beyond me.
it could be argued that coward is a better bet of a similar prototype at much better value.

I maybe think there’s a 10-15% chance that Bailey hits a higher ceiling -Tatum/Ingram type, but still, Knueppel is LIKELY to become a Desmond Bane type player in the NBA, I’d have a hard time passing on that or trading down for a CMB/Essengue.

Don’t think Tre will be on the board at 6.

I'm really frightened by Kon's lane agility numbers. He posted an 11.92 which is slower than everybody except a handful of 250-pound centers. Danny freaking Wolf has much quicker feet than Kon.

I'm trying to think of some other competent wing defenders who had short wingspans but made up for it by being strong, smart and providing effort. Bane is one, but he doesn't have any athleticism measurements in the nba.com database so I couldn't compare.

Dillon Brooks looks similar to Kon in stature (6'5" with a 6'6" wingspan) but Brooks scored an 11.13 on lane agility.

[payitforward]

So... you guys who would like to draft Queen:

1. Where would you take him? What draft pick?
2. If not at 6, & assuming you think he'll be gone by 18, what pick would you use on him & exactly what would you give to acquire that pick?

Let's hear it....

I would take him at 6.

I can't think of trade scenarios. Who wants Kispert? Poole?

Well, if you think he'll be there at, say, 8 you could easily trade 6 for 8 &... something!

For that matter, wherever Queen is picked I hope he becomes a stud. I'm not looking to see any young kid fail at his dream!

[Frichuela]

Rumors…

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

?t=BSM57D-bOyWnQiT5rwII6w&s=19

They are suggesting that Wizards will be very aggressive and the goal is to trade up for #2, not merely a trade up for Ace.

I wonder if they'll trade #6 plus Bilal for #2?

[DCZards]

The comparisons of Fears to Harper do Fears a disservice. (I may be one of those guilty of making that comparison.) Fears is no Harper on a lot of levels.

Two different players, two different styles, two different oncourt roles, two different positions.

I do think though that Fears is a top 3-6 player in this draft. Yes, he has his shortcomings, most notably defense because of his size. But his elite ball handling and quickness is gonna make him a real problem for opponents’ defenses.

[prime1time]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45541843/ace-bailey-cancels-76ers-visit-ahead-nba-draft

Bailey's camp has expressed the belief that teams such as the Wizards, New Orleans Pelicans, or Brooklyn Nets, picking No. 6, 7 and 8, will be aggressive looking to move up in the draft and select him.

But why?… Even if he hits, he’s Rashard Lewis/MPJ. So he’s the 3rd/4th best player on a contender if things go well. Hes Rui/Wiggins if it doesn’t, and possibly even worse if it all falls apart.
How anyone thinks he’s better than Tre is beyond me.
it could be argued that coward is a better bet of a similar prototype at much better value.

So Tre is a guaranteed 2nd best player on a contender?