Shams: Jrue for Simons

[Scoot McGroot]

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Instead of looking at Derozan could Miami be interested in Simons instead? Three way deal with either of Brooklyn or Atlanta where Duncan Robinson gets eaten/waived by one of those two and Boston takes nothing back. Miami pays the freight to offload the $9.8m guaranteed on Duncan's deal.

MIA: Simons
BKN: Robsinon, value from MIA
BOS: fake 2nd

Puts the Celtics in striking distance of ducking the tax completely. Miami takes a flyer on a scorer for the price of clearing cap space. Brooklyn or Atlanta sell their space and can waive Robinson and save the money (Brooklyn could sell the $10m in cap space they free up again for more value).

Could even lump in a KP deal as any of that trio of teams (ATL/MIA/BKN) could potentially be a landing spot depending on the price.

Miami would have to include SloMo or some other salary to avoid the tax.

[JHFVF07]

Jrue/Camara/Deni/Grant/Clingan. If Portland could trade Scoot+Ayton salary and picks for Ja, would be a scary good team to watch!

[cl2117]

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Instead of looking at Derozan could Miami be interested in Simons instead? Three way deal with either of Brooklyn or Atlanta where Duncan Robinson gets eaten/waived by one of those two and Boston takes nothing back. Miami pays the freight to offload the $9.8m guaranteed on Duncan's deal.

MIA: Simons
BKN: Robsinon, value from MIA
BOS: fake 2nd

Puts the Celtics in striking distance of ducking the tax completely. Miami takes a flyer on a scorer for the price of clearing cap space. Brooklyn or Atlanta sell their space and can waive Robinson and save the money (Brooklyn could sell the $10m in cap space they free up again for more value).

Could even lump in a KP deal as any of that trio of teams (ATL/MIA/BKN) could potentially be a landing spot depending on the price.

Miami would have to include SloMo or some other salary to avoid the tax.

I think Pelle Larson gets them there. Send him to ATL /BKN as part of the price for them to eat Robinson guaranteed money.

[Laimbeer]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

Instead of looking at Derozan could Miami be interested in Simons instead? Three way deal with either of Brooklyn or Atlanta where Duncan Robinson gets eaten/waived by one of those two and Boston takes nothing back. Miami pays the freight to offload the $9.8m guaranteed on Duncan's deal.

MIA: Simons
BKN: Robsinon, value from MIA
BOS: fake 2nd

Puts the Celtics in striking distance of ducking the tax completely. Miami takes a flyer on a scorer for the price of clearing cap space. Brooklyn or Atlanta sell their space and can waive Robinson and save the money (Brooklyn could sell the $10m in cap space they free up again for more value).

Could even lump in a KP deal as any of that trio of teams (ATL/MIA/BKN) could potentially be a landing spot depending on the price.

Makes sense for both teams, but I suspect that the reason the Blazers found themselves taking back Jrue is that the Heat realized they weren't a Simons away from anything after the playoffs. The Heat may prefer the cap savings themselves.

Cronin really over played his hand with Orlando, and when the Magic pivoted, he found himself stuck.

[Texas Chuck]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

[tmorgan]

At the end of the day, teams don’t want to spend 5+ years being irrelevant. Portland is picking in the lottery for the 4th straight year and they aren’t exactly loaded with franchise changing talent. And Simons wasn’t in their long term plans.

Portlands books are pretty clean long term, and I think they see an opportunity to (a) make the play-in and (b) use Jrue is a culture setter.

I can’t say I love it for them, but I get it.

I actually like this move a lot for Boston. But I’m a Simons fan. I think he pairs nicely in the backcourt with White and I can see him agreeing to a reasonable extension going forward.

You have an unusual definition of “clean books”. How many multi-year overpaid contracts can a team have and be considered “clean”?

Portland now has two big ones in Jerami Grant and Jrue Holiday. There are certainly a bunch of teams in even worse positions, but…

[daoneandonly]

I stand corrected. I seriously thought Jrue at his age/contract and decline would not yield an expiring unless Bos gave up picks, here they not only got a smaller expiring, they got picks themselves

[Djh7475]

As I’ve said and expected for months, Jrue ended up returning more value than most people (including me) expected. People underestimate how well respected he is around the NBA as a proven winner and locker room presence.

While I like the talent/age/contract swap for the Celtics along with picking up some 2nds, I would be surprised if Simons isn’t rerouted in the next couple of days.

While we can get under the 2nd apron relatively easy now with follow-up KP and Hauser moves, I’d personally rather ship Simons out than either of those 2 and with him on an expiring contract as a young 20+ PPG scorer, I think there are teams that would pay to acquire him for bad contracts which could be rerouted to a team like Brooklyn.

[jayjaysee]

It’s two years away so can always pivot, but I don’t like messing with the books in 2027-2028 when they should be trying to give Deni 50-60 million dollars.. Just will be a waste to keep him and not do that..

But should really help their young guards and since they don’t want to tank helping Scoot/Sharpe is one of the best options. Probably better than trading future assets for a star when the roster isn’t ready for that.

[jbk1234]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

The big reason people said PG was a bad contract is he spent half a decade plagued by injuries and routinely missed playoff games. The fact that he was finally able to stay healthy for a complete run for the Suns was great for them, but that was lightning in a bottle. Objectively, he was on a bad contract as his availability wasn't priced into it.

The problem the Blazers are now facing is that Grant and Jrue will carry them through the entirety of all there cheap deals and while that opportunity cost is presently unknown, it could be really high as exploiting that window is how most great teams are built. Moreover, Cornin made that move with team up for sale!

[sackings916]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

Thank you. I’ve never understood this timeline thing where your whole team has to be the same age.

[psman2]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

Not quite everyone. Pinkyring back in the day was pushing hard for him to Dallas. I was a supporter as well.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1900041&hilit=Chris+Paul&start=20#p78977124

[In-N-Out 247]

As I’ve said and expected for months, Jrue ended up returning more value than most people (including me) expected. People underestimate how well respected he is around the NBA as a proven winner and locker room presence.

While I like the talent/age/contract swap for the Celtics along with picking up some 2nds, I would be surprised if Simons isn’t rerouted in the next couple of days.

While we can get under the 2nd apron relatively easy now with follow-up KP and Hauser moves, I’d personally rather ship Simons out than either of those 2 and with him on an expiring contract as a young 20+ PPG scorer, I think there are teams that would pay to acquire him for bad contracts which could be rerouted to a team like Brooklyn.

Is this like the reverse trade up challenge? Maybe the next trade would be Boston sending Simons to the Wizards for Marcus Smart. Then they look to move Smart for a player making $16M-$18M and then keep going. If that is the plan it is quite brilliant.

[Djh7475]

As I’ve said and expected for months, Jrue ended up returning more value than most people (including me) expected. People underestimate how well respected he is around the NBA as a proven winner and locker room presence.

While I like the talent/age/contract swap for the Celtics along with picking up some 2nds, I would be surprised if Simons isn’t rerouted in the next couple of days.

While we can get under the 2nd apron relatively easy now with follow-up KP and Hauser moves, I’d personally rather ship Simons out than either of those 2 and with him on an expiring contract as a young 20+ PPG scorer, I think there are teams that would pay to acquire him for bad contracts which could be rerouted to a team like Brooklyn.

Is this like the reverse trade up challenge? Maybe the next trade would be Boston sending Simons to the Wizards for Marcus Smart. Then they look to move Smart for a player making $16M-$18M and then keep going. If that is the plan it is quite brilliant.

I guess kinda, but I think if they do move him again it will be for a substantial reduction in salary otherwise they’d just keep him since he fills a need. He just doesn’t really fit the type of guard Stevens has always preferred in the starting 5, but that could partially be because he’s been in Portland.

[Scoot McGroot]

Read on Twitter

Instead of looking at Derozan could Miami be interested in Simons instead? Three way deal with either of Brooklyn or Atlanta where Duncan Robinson gets eaten/waived by one of those two and Boston takes nothing back. Miami pays the freight to offload the $9.8m guaranteed on Duncan's deal.

MIA: Simons
BKN: Robsinon, value from MIA
BOS: fake 2nd

Puts the Celtics in striking distance of ducking the tax completely. Miami takes a flyer on a scorer for the price of clearing cap space. Brooklyn or Atlanta sell their space and can waive Robinson and save the money (Brooklyn could sell the $10m in cap space they free up again for more value).

Could even lump in a KP deal as any of that trio of teams (ATL/MIA/BKN) could potentially be a landing spot depending on the price.

Miami would have to include SloMo or some other salary to avoid the tax.

I think Pelle Larson gets them there. Send him to ATL /BKN as part of the price for them to eat Robinson guaranteed money.

Pelle would make the deal legally work, but they’d still be adding enough salary to put them into the tax. That’s why I think you have to have SloMo in there too, just to realistically work for Miami’s purposes.

[Laimbeer]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

But that's the key difference - Phoenix and Dallas were capable of going a long way. Portland isn't. Jrue probably makes them marginally better (I question how much given his decline and age) but that isn't worth the salary bite they'll be taking the next three seasons, imo.

[aim2please]

This board was full of people saying Jrue is a negative asset. Most proposals had Celtics giving up pick(s) and getting crap back.

In the end, replacement level player on an expiring deal and two 2nd round picks is a fair deal IMO. Simons is one of the worst defenders in the league but his high volume 3p shooting is a good fit for Boston's offense. Don't see him as a long-term fit.

Don't get this deal for Portland. They have a few solid players but 0 stars to build around. Jrue is 35. I don't get it.

[hugepatsfan]

Nonsensical for Portland. Not only paying to take on a bad deal, Jrue doesn't fit the timeline. He's 35 and clearly declined this season.

We see this kind of linear thinking all the time. Yet we see teams add old PG's to great success all the time. I remember when Dallas traded young Devin Harris plus multiple firsts for old Jason Kidd. Harris is immediately an all-star with the Nets and everyone laughed at Dallas. Then Kidd at age 38 was still a huge part of a title team.

Everyone on this board but me said Chris Paul was a bad contract. I said Phoenix should bring him in to help with their young talent and they went to the Finals.

I don't think Portland has the talent to be in the Finals in the next couple years, but do I think Jrue helps them be competitive and grow their young talent? Of course I do.

Not every player in your rotation needs to be within 18 months of each other lol.

The big reason people said PG was a bad contract is he spent half a decade plagued by injuries and routinely missed playoff games. The fact that he was finally able to stay healthy for a complete run for the Suns was great for them, but that was lightning in a bottle. Objectively, he was on a bad contract as his availability wasn't priced into it.

The problem the Blazers are now facing is that Grant and Jrue will carry them through the entirety of all there cheap deals and while that opportunity cost is presently unknown, it could be really high as exploiting that window is how most great teams are built. Moreover, Cornin made that move with team up for sale!

In regard to the bolded, is that really true? Probably applies to OKC this year but definitely not BOS the year before. Definitely not DEN the year before that. Definitely not GSW the year before that. Definitely not MIL the year before that. Definitely not LAL the year before that. Definitely not TOR the year before that.

Free agency is pretty much dead in the NBA. Saving cap space for signing players before rookie extensions kick in is an outdated way of thinking. To land anyone worth a damn now, you need to trade for them and that requires outgoing salary. Not advocating for giving out bad deals just because, but the best way to build now is to be an over the cap team (but under the tax) with expendable salary that you can use in deals. Jrue and Grant right now with 3 years left aren't great filler (though we just saw there was enough of a market for Jrue to extract some small positive value) but as those deals wind down they'll be fine to use for that. POR can keep all their young guys they like and trade Jrue and/or Grant for the additive pieces they really want if they feel there's a "go for it" window available..

[the_process]

POR thinks Jrue can help mentor Scoot and Sharpe. They want playoff experience, and they're not concerned about the money for the moment.

BOS got positive value for Jrue, and shaved the tax bill down. Simons is not very good however, and they still have a ways to go to even get out of the 2nd apron.

It's a weird trade where both teams kinda settle and get like 40% of what they want.