Moderators: Moonbeam, DeBlazerRiddem
The Sebastian Express wrote:All it took for me to get my wish for Simons to get trade was for a tree to take out my power and internet for half a week.
Not a fan of the contract, but a fan of the deal.
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:I just don't like the deal because I can't not consider the long-term salary implications.
But if you just take a look at the upcoming year it's fine. Ignore what happens beyond this year. For the next 12 months this is totally fine. Just take out the part of my brain that looks more than 12 months into the future. Then this is fine.
#blazerfancopingmechanisms
DusterBuster wrote:DeBlazerRiddem wrote:I just don't like the deal because I can't not consider the long-term salary implications.
But if you just take a look at the upcoming year it's fine. Ignore what happens beyond this year. For the next 12 months this is totally fine. Just take out the part of my brain that looks more than 12 months into the future. Then this is fine.
#blazerfancopingmechanisms
I mean, the NBA is more and more becoming a year to year league. I don't really get the fretting over the salary part myself. Portland wasn't going to be a player in FA, whoever they could have signed had they kept all the cap space after next season (assuming they let all their FA's walk) wasn't going to be as good as Jrue and probably cost just as much or close to it if they were even remotely starting caliber.
His last 2 years will be expensive, but I can understand why they did this. They wanted a Mike Conley type of lockeroom leader they lost in originally moving Lillard. Jrue basically gives Billups his clone in the rotation of the team. So from a chemistry / leadership standpoint, part of his salary is just for that.
I actually think I like this deal from a overall team standpoint. I could care less about the money or the 2nd round picks that some people on RealGM are hilariously overreacting too. Jrue is going to command the lockerrooms respect and I think that is going to go beyond his raw stats for improving the team. Blazers are just going 10000% full tilt on being a Top 10 defensive team, swapping Simons for Jrue both on the court and in the lockerroom is going to be massive wins. Ant was a nice dude and not a lockerroom problem by any stretch, but he was never a leader that they needed post-Dame.
My biggest critique about the deal right now is just still more 2 timeline stuff. And honestly, that's probably less a critique and more just my stubbornness to accept whatever vision Cronin clearly has here. He clearly is fine with a mix of vets and youth. I still question the Jrue/Scoot rotation... Scoot's going to go into year 3 and looks like another year of being a backup is in store, so while they finally fixed the Simons issue, there's still questionable rotations ahead. My hope is this deal for Jrue is a sign of the investment in Scoot because of Jrue's age, but it's definitely not explicit in that yet.
DusterBuster wrote:DeBlazerRiddem wrote:I just don't like the deal because I can't not consider the long-term salary implications.
But if you just take a look at the upcoming year it's fine. Ignore what happens beyond this year. For the next 12 months this is totally fine. Just take out the part of my brain that looks more than 12 months into the future. Then this is fine.
#blazerfancopingmechanisms
I mean, the NBA is more and more becoming a year to year league. I don't really get the fretting over the salary part myself. Portland wasn't going to be a player in FA, whoever they could have signed had they kept all the cap space after next season (assuming they let all their FA's walk) wasn't going to be as good as Jrue and probably cost just as much or close to it if they were even remotely starting caliber.
His last 2 years will be expensive, but I can understand why they did this. They wanted a Mike Conley type of lockeroom leader they lost in originally moving Lillard. Jrue basically gives Billups his clone in the rotation of the team. So from a chemistry / leadership standpoint, part of his salary is just for that.
I actually think I like this deal from a overall team standpoint. I could care less about the money or the 2nd round picks that some people on RealGM are hilariously overreacting too. Jrue is going to command the lockerrooms respect and I think that is going to go beyond his raw stats for improving the team. Blazers are just going 10000% full tilt on being a Top 10 defensive team, swapping Simons for Jrue both on the court and in the lockerroom is going to be massive wins. Ant was a nice dude and not a lockerroom problem by any stretch, but he was never a leader that they needed post-Dame.
My biggest critique about the deal right now is just still more 2 timeline stuff. And honestly, that's probably less a critique and more just my stubbornness to accept whatever vision Cronin clearly has here. He clearly is fine with a mix of vets and youth. I still question the Jrue/Scoot rotation... Scoot's going to go into year 3 and looks like another year of being a backup is in store, so while they finally fixed the Simons issue, there's still questionable rotations ahead. My hope is this deal for Jrue is a sign of the investment in Scoot because of Jrue's age, but it's definitely not explicit in that yet.
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:I don't care about losing Simons, or even spending a couple second round picks at all.
I think taking on 2 extra years of Jrue at over $60 million is not worth it for what largely figures to be a veteran presence. And sure its not my money but that bloated salary between Grant and Holiday will prevent us from making certain moves. Instead of shopping capspace for assets and building up a warchest like OKC we are trying to be Sacramento and make ourselves an expensive first round exit team.
It's poor cap and asset management and whatever silver lining you try and find in the immediate future, I just don't agree that spending 30+ million on another 30+ year old is right for this team long-term.
Capn'O wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, this deal reminds me a bit of the Raptors trading Rudy Gay for scraps. Gay just didn't fit what they were trying to build and they were better without him. Unfortunately, I think that's Ant. When I've watched the Blazers play he scores well but I don't see him as integral to what they're doing. This helps them move forward with the core pieces that fit in addition to getting a coach on the floor and in the locker room.
DusterBuster wrote:Capn'O wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, this deal reminds me a bit of the Raptors trading Rudy Gay for scraps. Gay just didn't fit what they were trying to build and they were better without him. Unfortunately, I think that's Ant. When I've watched the Blazers play he scores well but I don't see him as integral to what they're doing. This helps them move forward with the core pieces that fit in addition to getting a coach on the floor and in the locker room.
Ant has always just been a weird fit in Portland tbh.
He patterned soooo much of his game copying Dame, that it's hard not to put some higher expectations on him. The Blazers have also given him ample opportunities to really take the franchise player mantle and it's never been a good fit for him. They made him the unquestionable #2 option after they moved CJ, but he was a weird fit next to Dame since they didn't complement each other. CJ wasn't a perfect player, but he and Dame's game were super complimentary. Dame and Ant was very much "my turn, your turn" players. Then when Ant took over the main focal point offensive option after the Dame trade, his numbers seemed to regress more than improve under stronger defensive pressure. On top of that, he was just never a major voice in the lockerroom to really command the team like Lillard or even CJ were.
None of this is to say he was ever a bad player, but he always left you wanting more - and that just might be a stint of the Blazers putting him in positions he's just not comfortable as. He's probably best suited somewhere where he can be a #3 or 4 guy or even a 6th man.
The Sebastian Express wrote:DusterBuster wrote:Capn'O wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, this deal reminds me a bit of the Raptors trading Rudy Gay for scraps. Gay just didn't fit what they were trying to build and they were better without him. Unfortunately, I think that's Ant. When I've watched the Blazers play he scores well but I don't see him as integral to what they're doing. This helps them move forward with the core pieces that fit in addition to getting a coach on the floor and in the locker room.
Ant has always just been a weird fit in Portland tbh.
He patterned soooo much of his game copying Dame, that it's hard not to put some higher expectations on him. The Blazers have also given him ample opportunities to really take the franchise player mantle and it's never been a good fit for him. They made him the unquestionable #2 option after they moved CJ, but he was a weird fit next to Dame since they didn't complement each other. CJ wasn't a perfect player, but he and Dame's game were super complimentary. Dame and Ant was very much "my turn, your turn" players. Then when Ant took over the main focal point offensive option after the Dame trade, his numbers seemed to regress more than improve under stronger defensive pressure. On top of that, he was just never a major voice in the lockerroom to really command the team like Lillard or even CJ were.
None of this is to say he was ever a bad player, but he always left you wanting more - and that just might be a stint of the Blazers putting him in positions he's just not comfortable as. He's probably best suited somewhere where he can be a #3 or 4 guy or even a 6th man.
Ant as a super Lou Williams off the bench on a contender is the ideal role for him. Maybe not the one he wants, but the one that he would thrive in. He's not a point, he's undersized for a two. He's elite at shooting but can be inconsistent and he is a sieve on defense. I think he can buy the sixth man more on an older, contending team that he ever would've been able to here. And with Tatum out and KP on the likely move, he should have the shots next year in a great offense to get him a great contract (for him) with some team.
I think it's good for him to move on and good for us that he moved on. Cronin really did send him to a great team for him, imo.
dckingsfan wrote:I don't like the trade. Jrue is old and starting his decent. We should have received draft compensation for taking the contract - not the other way around.
That doesn't mean that Jrue isn't substantially better than Simons. He is. He will immediately be the best guard on the Blazers. And he is a very solid defender. And it means that Scoot gets to develop and it pushes Sharpe to the bench. Those are all good things (IMO).
DusterBuster wrote:dckingsfan wrote:I don't like the trade. Jrue is old and starting his decent. We should have received draft compensation for taking the contract - not the other way around.
That doesn't mean that Jrue isn't substantially better than Simons. He is. He will immediately be the best guard on the Blazers. And he is a very solid defender. And it means that Scoot gets to develop and it pushes Sharpe to the bench. Those are all good things (IMO).
But if you want development out of Scoot and nearly the perfect mentor for him, don't you WANT a player who's older and descending? That's going to make the eventual transition to Scoot starting much easier / smoother than a younger player in their say late 20's / early 30's that has 5-6 good years left in them.
dckingsfan wrote:DusterBuster wrote:dckingsfan wrote:I don't like the trade. Jrue is old and starting his decent. We should have received draft compensation for taking the contract - not the other way around.
That doesn't mean that Jrue isn't substantially better than Simons. He is. He will immediately be the best guard on the Blazers. And he is a very solid defender. And it means that Scoot gets to develop and it pushes Sharpe to the bench. Those are all good things (IMO).
But if you want development out of Scoot and nearly the perfect mentor for him, don't you WANT a player who's older and descending? That's going to make the eventual transition to Scoot starting much easier / smoother than a younger player in their say late 20's / early 30's that has 5-6 good years left in them.
Three different things if you will.
1) taking on an increasing contract for a declining player
2) does he make your team better
3) how he fits in and how he will mentor younger players
You try not to take in players that fit 1). You certainly don't do it if you are giving up the draft assets to said player.
I think he does do 2). Then, does he push you into the playoffs?
Yes to 3 but... he will be eating up the cap space for Scoot, so not so helpful.
IMO.
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