Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[Dominator83]

Lost in all this is the fact that Okoro makes $1.8 million more, this was probably in the works for a couple days and explains why uncle Jerry made them go find cash

[The Force.]

I don’t understand what the big deal is here. Let’s give him a chance.

It’s like the Giddey trade thread which was full of ridiculous takes and comments which turned out to be completely wrong and premature.

Giddey hasn’t proven anything outside of winning meaningless games in March and consequently getting destroyed in the play-in.

Meanwhile Caruso is on the front end of a potential dynasty while collecting championship rings.

So what? Would we be collecting those rings if Caruso was still on the team? No. We’d be trying to figure out how to retain him instead of losing him for nothing.

The point is Caruso held significant value for multiple teams and AK, as always, failed to get a comparable return.

If you think Giddey is some fundamental piece to a substantial rebuild then we can agree to disagree.

[t-time]

Giddey hasn’t proven anything outside of winning meaningless games in March and consequently getting destroyed in the play-in.

Meanwhile Caruso is on the front end of a potential dynasty while collecting championship rings.

So what? Would we be collecting those rings if Caruso was still on the team? No. We’d be trying to figure out how to retain him instead of losing him for nothing.

The point is Caruso held significant value for multiple teams and AK, as always, failed to get a comparable return.

If you think Giddey is some fundamental piece to a substantial rebuild then we can agree to disagree.

What was a good return for Caruso? Tell us what you think we should have got.

[Dez]

A lot of people are complaining about people complaining about this trade.

We could have traded Lonzo 4 months ago for a 1st. Now we traded him for a bust who's very similar to several guys we already have on the roster.

Why should we be happy we made a worse trade?

We don't know the protections on that 1st, it's most lively would've been a fake first like the Blazers pick in which case it's worthless plus adding Smart.

Debatable as to whether this is a worse trade given Okoro hasn't played yet. A lot of people said the same about Giddey/Caruso, there's zero reason to be happy or angry with the trade because right now it's the definition of meh.

If Marcus Smart was part of the deal (who I think was in the rumor?) then he was ultimately traded to the Wizards for a 2025 pick. Was that #18? If so, Walter Clayton was picked at that spot and the Wizards traded him for Will Riley, plus the #43 pick and 2nd round picks in 2031 and 2032.

https://www.nba.com/news/wizards-grizzlies-kings-smart-laravia-len-trade

You're just assuming though, with Lonzo being injured for years it's safer to assume it was a heavily protected and worthless pick.

[Dan Z]

The vision is to remain in Reinsdorf’s treadmill overton window indefinitely.

Even in the Paxson era they rarely traded for draft capital. Without Rose they would’ve been a perpetual treadmill team.

Outside of lucking into a star with a low FRP, management will never build a true contender. It’s the epitome of NBA hell.

What are you talking about? Paxson traded Eddy Curry for picks that turned out to be LaMarcus Aldridge (who was traded for Tyrus Thomas) and Joakim Noah.

He also traded a future first to Phoenix for the rights to Luol Deng (the pick that was traded ended up being a late pick).

Later on they traded Mirotic for a first (Chandler Hutchison) but that was Gar right? Or am I wrong about that? It also didn't work out because Hutchison wasn't good.

Okay so 4 picks in 17 years. I stand corrected.

They also traded Butler and got the #7 pick.

I guess we're including the Gar years with Paxson?

At least GarPax understood that if they were rebuilding that additional picks would help.

[Dominator83]

Absolute nothing burger of a trade and probably is a wash 90% of the time for either team. Lonzo at best plays 50-60 games next year. At best. Okoro is a solid floor rotation wing and could eat into Pat's minutes if Pat doesn't produce. From that standpoint I like it. Pat's rope is almost up, if he stinks again next year it's nice to know he probably will be glued to the bench.

Must be nice to get $90 million dollars for potential.

When his contact is up his career earnings will be $122,101,641.

Thats the funny thing that now stares AKME directly in the face. Okoro's contract is exactly what Pat's should have been

[Dan Z]

We don't know the protections on that 1st, it's most lively would've been a fake first like the Blazers pick in which case it's worthless plus adding Smart.

Debatable as to whether this is a worse trade given Okoro hasn't played yet. A lot of people said the same about Giddey/Caruso, there's zero reason to be happy or angry with the trade because right now it's the definition of meh.

If Marcus Smart was part of the deal (who I think was in the rumor?) then he was ultimately traded to the Wizards for a 2025 pick. Was that #18? If so, Walter Clayton was picked at that spot and the Wizards traded him for Will Riley, plus the #43 pick and 2nd round picks in 2031 and 2032.

https://www.nba.com/news/wizards-grizzlies-kings-smart-laravia-len-trade

You're just assuming though, with Lonzo being injured for years it's safer to assume it was a heavily protected and worthless pick.

It's a rumor and that's all that I can go on for details. Let's say it ended up being a protected pick. Does it convey at #18? Most likely.

[Dominator83]

I like this trade. Honestly, in an alternate universe with slightly different context, the Ball, Lavine, DeRozan, and Caruso trades are all solid, reasonable, quality trades.

AKME is doing solid job of tear down and rebuild. Sure, they are sacrificing value, but they are operating the market like a team with a strategy of full rebuild.

Things is, I would give them solid-to-high marks on all trades if they were a FO coming in new and having to deal with the team dealt to them by the prior FO. Sadly, they are their own prior FO haha. So I can’t really give to many pats on back for this year down and rebuild, even though I do appreciate the direction. They’ll get their accolades if/when it turns into a legit deep playoff team.

Agreed. the old AKME would have been trading a combined 3 future 1st rounders (along with all our expirings) this summer to bring in Randle and PG13. Progress!

[2weekswithpay]

The pick the Wizards got from Memphis was lottery protected. Memphis dropped 9 spots in the standings after the trade, so the best possible outcome happened for the Wizards.

[Dan Z]

I like this trade. Honestly, in an alternate universe with slightly different context, the Ball, Lavine, DeRozan, and Caruso trades are all solid, reasonable, quality trades.

AKME is doing solid job of tear down and rebuild. Sure, they are sacrificing value, but they are operating the market like a team with a strategy of full rebuild.

Things is, I would give them solid-to-high marks on all trades if they were a FO coming in new and having to deal with the team dealt to them by the prior FO. Sadly, they are their own prior FO haha. So I can’t really give to many pats on back for this year down and rebuild, even though I do appreciate the direction. They’ll get their accolades if/when it turns into a legit deep playoff team.

Agreed. the old AKME would have been trading a combined 3 future 1st rounders (along with all our expirings) this summer to bring in Randle and PG13. Progress!

The off season isn't over yet!

[Dan Z]

The pick the Wizards got from Memphis was lottery protected. Memphis dropped 9 spots in the standings after the trade, so the best possible outcome happened for the Wizards.

Washington was willing to do that trade and take that chance.

AK doesn't do trades like that.

[dumbell78]

Man, this dude just makes trades for the sake of it. He puts zero thought into any of this, I'm convinced.

[nomorezorro]

i think the memphis trade is an example of why there are benefits to taking on salary for draft assets when your team is bad.

i also think that 8 times out of 10, a trade in that circumstance ends up landing a pick in the mid-20s, and you end up drafting someone who makes no impact, and people say "after all that time waiting on lonzo, we really traded him and took on marcus smart's contract just so we could draft some scrub???"

passing on the deal is a fine decision in a vacuum, even if hindsight tells us it would have been a good trade for us. it's bad because it reflects the reality that this front office *never* uses cap space to land draft picks, which mostly do not pan out but sometimes do. if you wanna get lucky, you have to maximize your odds

[DuckIII]

I like this. Defensive wing with athleticism and an ever improving 3-ball. Former #5 draft pick and he’s still young. All it cost was Lonzo who hasn’t done squat in about 3 years. Some of you are never satisfied it seems.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if we traded Pat that is exactly what the fans of his new team would be saying to convince themselves it was a good trade.

Okoro spent the last two years being a steady, effective NBA 3-D wing. Pat did not. Okoro has a nice floor. Pat’s floor is last year, which is of no benefit to anyone.

That two fanbases might ignorantly react in a similar way does not make them in fact similar.

[Dominator83]

It's the reports about what AK COULD'VE done that makes me uncomfortable about his decision making.

I wish I knew the vision before I judge him so harshly.

The vision is to remain in Reinsdorf’s treadmill overton window indefinitely.

Even in the Paxson era they rarely traded for draft capital. Without Rose they would’ve been a perpetual treadmill team.

Outside of lucking into a star with a low FRP, management will never build a true contender. It’s the epitome of NBA hell.

What are you talking about? Paxson traded Eddy Curry for picks that turned out to be LaMarcus Aldridge (who was traded for Tyrus Thomas) and Joakim Noah.

He also traded a future first to Phoenix for the rights to Luol Deng (the pick that was traded ended up being a late pick).

Later on they traded Mirotic for a first (Chandler Hutchison) but that was Gar right? Or am I wrong about that? It also didn't work out because Hutchison wasn't good.

Also got 1st round picks by trading away his previous 1st round picks that wasn't working out here before it was too late. Got a 1st for Thabo, got a 1st for James Johnson, got a 1st for Tyrus Thomas. 2004-2012 Pax or Gar/Pax was pretty top notch as GMs. They also atleast put themselves in position to create the space and make real offers to James/wade/bosh and later Melo Anthony. Like i seriously wonder that if, in the unlikely scenario that Doncic doesn't sign an extension and explores free agency, will AKME even score a meeting? lol

[DuckIII]

I’ve decided I like this trade based on a real time analysis. There are scenarios where it looks badly later, but I don’t evaluate trades that way.

It’s not exactly what I would have done, but it’s perfectly logical and justifiable. I’m in.

[Dan Z]

i think the memphis trade is an example of why there are benefits to taking on salary for draft assets when your team is bad.

i also think that 8 times out of 10, a trade in that circumstance ends up landing a pick in the mid-20s, and you end up drafting someone who makes no impact, and people say "after all that time waiting on lonzo, we really traded him and took on marcus smart's contract just so we could draft some scrub???"

passing on the deal is a fine decision in a vacuum, even if hindsight tells us it would have been a good trade for us. it's bad because it reflects the reality that this front office *never* uses cap space to land draft picks, which mostly do not pan out but sometimes do. if you wanna get lucky, you have to maximize your odds

It's a move that Presit does quite often. I think that's how he got Serge Ibaka?

Marcus Smart and his contract would've been fine. The Bulls weren't serious contenders last year and won't be this year. It's better to acquire draft capital and think about the future. After this season Smarts contract will expire and they could move on (or they could use him in another deal).

I'd rather take my chances on a mid to late pick than Okoro. He's an ok player, but has been in the league for 5 years. At this point he probably is who he is (a decent 3&D player). If he was better the Cavs wouldn't trade him. I think the Bulls marginally improved with this deal, but not enough that it will do anything other then give them a slightly better chance at the play-in.

His contract isn't high and he's a decent player, so it's not a big deal. It's just not the move I would've made.

[Dan Z]

I’ve decided I like this trade based on a real time analysis. There are scenarios where it looks badly later, but I don’t evaluate trades that way.

It’s not exactly what I would have done, but it’s perfectly logical and justifiable. I’m in.

Why would it look bad later?

[Betta Bulleavit]

Giddey hasn’t proven anything outside of winning meaningless games in March and consequently getting destroyed in the play-in.

Meanwhile Caruso is on the front end of a potential dynasty while collecting championship rings.

So what? Would we be collecting those rings if Caruso was still on the team? No. We’d be trying to figure out how to retain him instead of losing him for nothing.

The point is Caruso held significant value for multiple teams and AK, as always, failed to get a comparable return.

If you think Giddey is some fundamental piece to a substantial rebuild then we can agree to disagree.

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree. I don’t know the full caliber of player that Giddey will be. But he was very good for us down the stretch of last season. And the fact that we traded Caruso into a great situation for him doesn’t change that nor are we certain that we could have gotten more.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

I wonder how many people that are anti Okoro are pro Kuminga?