Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Gravy]

I can’t get over what Katz said. This is like 5 alarm fire stuff.

Dolan basically lead a pressure campaign to build a coalition against his own president of basketball operations and his best player to get Thibs out. Which completely undermines Roses authority and creates factions in the front office of dolans guys and Rose’s guys and a lot of you just seem okay with it?

I don’t see how this doesn’t put Rose on the hot seat for next year with his owner under cutting him for the first time. I wouldn’t be shocked if dolan fires rose if we don’t make the finals next year.

Fans are convinced we would have won a championship if Thibs was not holding them back, so anything negative happening with the team is okay as long as Thibs is not there anymore.

[NY2k1]

I can’t get over what Katz said. This is like 5 alarm fire stuff.

Dolan basically lead a pressure campaign to build a coalition against his own president of basketball operations and his best player to get Thibs out. Which completely undermines Roses authority and creates factions in the front office of dolans guys and Rose’s guys and a lot of you just seem okay with it?

I don’t see how this doesn’t put Rose on the hot seat for next year with his owner under cutting him for the first time. I wouldn’t be shocked if dolan fires rose if we don’t make the finals next year.

Leon Rose doesn't strike me as someone who operates that way. Firing Thibs was ultimately his decision. If Dolan were forcing him to do it, Rose would have resigned by now.

[NY2k1]

If this really was Dolan overruling Leon, then we are screwed and there is no reason to keep watching this team.

But I don't think that's it at all. There is no way Leon would have stayed on if he 100% wanted to keep Thibs but was forced to can him. Leon would've quit. So it wasn't a case where Leon wanted to keep him and Dolan made him fire him! I think Leon and WWW wanted to make this change and Dolan agreed to eat the $30M. Maybe I'm being naive and stupid but that's what makes most sense to me.

naive and stupid are stronger words than i'd use. i'd leave some room for maybe believing what you want to.

people fall in line at work all the time. that's just how power dynamics work. don't know if that's what happened, but it's by no means far fetched.

we also selectively listen to the trusted sources. katz is once again clarifying what he wrote and has not changed. either we believe him or don't.

Except Leon Rose doesn't need this job. He was an elite agent before he became GM of the Knicks. Not really that far fetched that he would have resigned if Dolan was forcing him to do things he didn't want to do.

[Jeff Van Gully]

If this really was Dolan overruling Leon, then we are screwed and there is no reason to keep watching this team.

But I don't think that's it at all. There is no way Leon would have stayed on if he 100% wanted to keep Thibs but was forced to can him. Leon would've quit. So it wasn't a case where Leon wanted to keep him and Dolan made him fire him! I think Leon and WWW wanted to make this change and Dolan agreed to eat the $30M. Maybe I'm being naive and stupid but that's what makes most sense to me.

naive and stupid are stronger words than i'd use. i'd leave some room for maybe believing what you want to.

people fall in line at work all the time. that's just how power dynamics work. don't know if that's what happened, but it's by no means far fetched.

we also selectively listen to the trusted sources. katz is once again clarifying what he wrote and has not changed. either we believe him or don't.

Except Leon Rose doesn't need this job. He was an elite agent before he became GM of the Knicks. Not really that far fetched that he would have resigned if Dolan was forcing him to do things he didn't want to do.

sure. either can be true.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I can’t get over what Katz said. This is like 5 alarm fire stuff.

Dolan basically lead a pressure campaign to build a coalition against his own president of basketball operations and his best player to get Thibs out. Which completely undermines Roses authority and creates factions in the front office of dolans guys and Rose’s guys and a lot of you just seem okay with it?

I don’t see how this doesn’t put Rose on the hot seat for next year with his owner under cutting him for the first time. I wouldn’t be shocked if dolan fires rose if we don’t make the finals next year.

Fans are convinced we would have won a championship if Thibs was not holding them back, so anything negative happening with the team is okay as long as Thibs is not there anymore.

That’s the frustrating thing cuz I agree with most of their criticism of him. The 8 man rotations, not experimenting with more line ups but this team didn’t have the normal shot diet of a Thibs lead team and I put that on the players. They had to waste a roster spot on PJ Tucker cuz of the lack of seriousness in the locker room. Even with all that, we were 2 made free throws away from game 7 in the ECF’s at msg.

When the initial reporting said that this was a player driven firing, I didn’t like it up but I understood it. Thibs has lost locker rooms before and there has been a stink around this team all season. I mean Mikal basically moped around all season. Now that we know it was Dolan lead crusade and the organization isn’t completely aligned like they were a year ago and that’s pretty damn scary to me.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I can’t get over what Katz said. This is like 5 alarm fire stuff.

Dolan basically lead a pressure campaign to build a coalition against his own president of basketball operations and his best player to get Thibs out. Which completely undermines Roses authority and creates factions in the front office of dolans guys and Rose’s guys and a lot of you just seem okay with it?

I don’t see how this doesn’t put Rose on the hot seat for next year with his owner under cutting him for the first time. I wouldn’t be shocked if dolan fires rose if we don’t make the finals next year.

Fans are convinced we would have won a championship if Thibs was not holding them back, so anything negative happening with the team is okay as long as Thibs is not there anymore.

That’s the frustrating thing cuz I agree with most of their criticism of him. The 8 man rotations, not experimenting with more line ups but this team didn’t have the normal shot diet of a Thibs lead team and I put that on the players. They had to waste a roster spot on PJ Tucker cuz of the lack of seriousness in the locker room. Even with all that, we were 2 made free throws away from game 7 in the ECF’s at msg.

When the initial reporting said that this was a player driven firing, I didn’t like it up but I understood it. Thibs has lost locker rooms before and there has been a stink around this team all season. I mean Mikal basically moped around all season. Now that we know it was Dolan lead crusade and the organization isn’t completely aligned like they were a year ago and that’s pretty damn scary to me.

Katz was in the room too? I don't think so. No way he knows how any of this went down.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Fans are convinced we would have won a championship if Thibs was not holding them back, so anything negative happening with the team is okay as long as Thibs is not there anymore.

That’s the frustrating thing cuz I agree with most of their criticism of him. The 8 man rotations, not experimenting with more line ups but this team didn’t have the normal shot diet of a Thibs lead team and I put that on the players. They had to waste a roster spot on PJ Tucker cuz of the lack of seriousness in the locker room. Even with all that, we were 2 made free throws away from game 7 in the ECF’s at msg.

When the initial reporting said that this was a player driven firing, I didn’t like it up but I understood it. Thibs has lost locker rooms before and there has been a stink around this team all season. I mean Mikal basically moped around all season. Now that we know it was Dolan lead crusade and the organization isn’t completely aligned like they were a year ago and that’s pretty damn scary to me.

Katz was in the room too? I don't think so. No way he knows how any of this went down.

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

[Jalen Bluntson]

That’s the frustrating thing cuz I agree with most of their criticism of him. The 8 man rotations, not experimenting with more line ups but this team didn’t have the normal shot diet of a Thibs lead team and I put that on the players. They had to waste a roster spot on PJ Tucker cuz of the lack of seriousness in the locker room. Even with all that, we were 2 made free throws away from game 7 in the ECF’s at msg.

When the initial reporting said that this was a player driven firing, I didn’t like it up but I understood it. Thibs has lost locker rooms before and there has been a stink around this team all season. I mean Mikal basically moped around all season. Now that we know it was Dolan lead crusade and the organization isn’t completely aligned like they were a year ago and that’s pretty damn scary to me.

Katz was in the room too? I don't think so. No way he knows how any of this went down.

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Katz was in the room too? I don't think so. No way he knows how any of this went down.

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

Fake news! All journalists are liars! The fact that he reported that Thibs was gonna stay after the Boston series and he didn’t is more evidence of dolans meddling and rose didn’t want to fire him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Katz was in the room too? I don't think so. No way he knows how any of this went down.

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

i think you're misinterpreting what katz said about goodwill there.

vincent goodwill is another journalist whose show katz frequents. katz said goodwill wrote an accurate report about what happens during exit interviews. that citation set the stage for referncing his own report on how abnormal it was for dolan to be part of this year's exit interviews. he was not saying that goodwill was the source for his report on the knicks exit interviews.

he's also talking about how content aggregators mischaracterize reports. both his and goodwill's work have been abused in the chaos of content creation.

if anything, the athletic/nyt likely brought katz back into the fold to help edwards out because of his sources and helpful notes/context edwards might not have being new to the beat.

[F N 11]

The Dolan is meddling yearly rumor.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

Fake news! All journalists are liars! The fact that he reported that Thibs was gonna stay after the Boston series and he didn’t is more evidence of dolans meddling and rose didn’t want to fire him.

Seeing how he is basing his opinion on some other guys report.... where's the actual source? A Yahoo sports reporter? Really? That's the source he's using. He says it in the clip. He doesn't say he heard anything from a team source at all. Run with it. Have fun with it. Nothing is verifiable at all.

As likely as it may be that Dolan made the final decision, he has to eat 30 mil. It SHOULD be his decision. Acting like he went rogue and stepped on his GMs balls is purely speculation and until we here that from the team itself, it's nothing more than Knicks drama for clicks.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

Fake news! All journalists are liars! The fact that he reported that Thibs was gonna stay after the Boston series and he didn’t is more evidence of dolans meddling and rose didn’t want to fire him.

Seeing how he is basing his opinion on some other guys report.... where's the actual source? A Yahoo sports reporter? Really? That's the source he's using. He says it in the clip. He doesn't say he heard anything from a team source at all. Run with it. Have fun with it. Nothing is verifiable at all.

As likely as it may be that Dolan made the final decision, he has to eat 30 mil. It SHOULD be his decision. Acting like he went rogue and stepped on his GMs balls is purely speculation and until we here that from the team itself, it's nothing more than Knicks drama for clicks.

His literally not basing his reporting on Goodwill’s reporting. He never said that and you’re making that up. Katz just said goodwill story is accurate and it fits with everything that Begley has reported too. So are all 3 of them lying? Where’s your evidence that he didn’t talk with anyone on the team?

[BKlutch]

Yeah man, Katz doesn’t have any sources in the Knicks locker room. Not like he hung out with a lot of these dudes for years after every game they’ve played. seriously, name a report that Katz has had to retract?

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

i think you're misinterpreting what katz said about goodwill there.

vincent goodwill is another journalist whose show katz frequents. katz said goodwill wrote an accurate report about what happens during exit interviews. that citation set the stage for referncing his own report on how abnormal it was for dolan to be part of this year's exit interviews. he was not saying that goodwill was the source for his report on the knicks exit interviews.

he's also talking about how content aggregators mischaracterize reports. both his and goodwill's work have been abused in the chaos of content creation.

if anything, the athletic/nyt likely brought katz back into the fold to help edwards out because of his sources and helpful notes/context edwards might not have being new to the beat.

They brought Katz back for this and also because Edwards, good writer though he is, is not a New Yorker. He has no history with our team, and his articles have always screamed "outsider." Katz knows New York and the team, and is more senior than Edwards. I haven't found Edwards' writing to be that helpful, but he hasn't been a self-hyping click baiter like SAS, or like several of the NY beat writers have been. It was nice when we had Berman who had connections, but he always had an axe to grind that reduced the usefulness of what he wrote. And he's still doing it from the grave retirement.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Who is Vinny Goodwill? Because that's his source. Another person's reporting that most likely wasn't in the room either. Katz wasn't there and he wasn't told any of this by anyone on the team. He wasn't going to retract the report that Thibs was safe. Who gives a shyt? All we ever here is how the Knicks never talk to the media yet people act like the media has sources when they wanna push a narrative. Nothing in that clip is source based. It's regurgitating hearsay from another reporter. Great work.

i think you're misinterpreting what katz said about goodwill there.

vincent goodwill is another journalist whose show katz frequents. katz said goodwill wrote an accurate report about what happens during exit interviews. that citation set the stage for referncing his own report on how abnormal it was for dolan to be part of this year's exit interviews. he was not saying that goodwill was the source for his report on the knicks exit interviews.

he's also talking about how content aggregators mischaracterize reports. both his and goodwill's work have been abused in the chaos of content creation.

if anything, the athletic/nyt likely brought katz back into the fold to help edwards out because of his sources and helpful notes/context edwards might not have being new to the beat.

They brought Katz back for this and also because Edwards, good writer though he is, is not a New Yorker. He has no history with our team, and his articles have always screamed "outsider." Katz knows New York and the team, and is more senior than Edwards. I haven't found Edwards' writing to be that helpful, but he hasn't been a self-hyping click baiter like SAS, or like several of the NY beat writers have been. It was nice when we had Berman who had connections, but he always had an axe to grind that reduced the usefulness of what he wrote. And he's still doing it from the grave retirement.

I just assumed the athletic put a national reporter with every playoff series and since Fred just covered the Knicks it made the most sense to put him back with us. Agree with everything you said about Edwards though. He’s not a drama starter like the old school beat reporters but his writing is on their level. His Insights are pretty surface level and not really that interesting. I never find myself stealing from him when I’m talking with my coworkers. Maybe it’s cuz he’s new here and hasn’t had the chance to develop his sources yet but he might just be as good as Fred. Which makes a ton of sense why the NYT promoted Fred . I thought it was just me but the comments section on some of Edward’s articles attack him. I’ll def give Edward’s another chance but I might cancel my subscription if he doesn’t step up his game.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i think you're misinterpreting what katz said about goodwill there.

vincent goodwill is another journalist whose show katz frequents. katz said goodwill wrote an accurate report about what happens during exit interviews. that citation set the stage for referncing his own report on how abnormal it was for dolan to be part of this year's exit interviews. he was not saying that goodwill was the source for his report on the knicks exit interviews.

he's also talking about how content aggregators mischaracterize reports. both his and goodwill's work have been abused in the chaos of content creation.

if anything, the athletic/nyt likely brought katz back into the fold to help edwards out because of his sources and helpful notes/context edwards might not have being new to the beat.

They brought Katz back for this and also because Edwards, good writer though he is, is not a New Yorker. He has no history with our team, and his articles have always screamed "outsider." Katz knows New York and the team, and is more senior than Edwards. I haven't found Edwards' writing to be that helpful, but he hasn't been a self-hyping click baiter like SAS, or like several of the NY beat writers have been. It was nice when we had Berman who had connections, but he always had an axe to grind that reduced the usefulness of what he wrote. And he's still doing it from the grave retirement.

I just assumed the athletic put a national reporter with every playoff series and since Fred just covered the Knicks it made the most sense to put him back with us. Agree with everything you said about Edwards though. He’s not a drama starter like the old school beat reporters but his writing is on their level. His Insights are pretty surface level and not really that interesting. I never find myself stealing from him when I’m talking with my coworkers. Maybe it’s cuz he’s new here and hasn’t had the chance to develop his sources yet but he might just be as good as Fred. Which makes a ton of sense why the NYT promoted Fred . I thought it was just me but the comments section on some of Edward’s articles attack him. I’ll def give Edward’s another chance but I might cancel my subscription if he doesn’t step up his game.

he’s a really good writer. just in a bad spot following fred, who is beloved in our market. i bet roles reversed, fred would struggle similarly in detroit. rooting for him but worried fred’s shadow might loom too large for a while.

thibs firing was exactly the kind of moment we needed a hand and voice like katz to contribute. glad we got it.

[BKlutch]

They brought Katz back for this and also because Edwards, good writer though he is, is not a New Yorker. He has no history with our team, and his articles have always screamed "outsider." Katz knows New York and the team, and is more senior than Edwards. I haven't found Edwards' writing to be that helpful, but he hasn't been a self-hyping click baiter like SAS, or like several of the NY beat writers have been. It was nice when we had Berman who had connections, but he always had an axe to grind that reduced the usefulness of what he wrote. And he's still doing it from the grave retirement.

I just assumed the athletic put a national reporter with every playoff series and since Fred just covered the Knicks it made the most sense to put him back with us. Agree with everything you said about Edwards though. He’s not a drama starter like the old school beat reporters but his writing is on their level. His Insights are pretty surface level and not really that interesting. I never find myself stealing from him when I’m talking with my coworkers. Maybe it’s cuz he’s new here and hasn’t had the chance to develop his sources yet but he might just be as good as Fred. Which makes a ton of sense why the NYT promoted Fred . I thought it was just me but the comments section on some of Edward’s articles attack him. I’ll def give Edward’s another chance but I might cancel my subscription if he doesn’t step up his game.

he’s a really good writer. just in a bad spot following fred, who is beloved in our market. i bet roles reversed, fred would struggle similarly in detroit. rooting for him but worried fred’s shadow might loom too large for a while.

thibs firing was exactly the kind of moment we needed a hand and voice like katz to contribute. glad we got it.

I agree that someone from Detroit, who isn't a long time New Yorker, is at a terrible disadvantage. I don't know how long it takes a new guy to learn about being here, but I'm sure Fred is helping. We'll see if he can get up to speed.

[3toheadmelo]

I’ve been tapped in with James Edwards since he’s been on Detroit. He doesn’t make up bs for headlines. He knows his stuff.

[BKlutch]

I’ve been tapped in with James Edwards since he’s been on Detroit. He doesn’t make up bs for headlines. He knows his stuff.

Being an honest reporter is the first requirement. Most Knicks reporters don't meet that one.

[3toheadmelo]

I’ve been tapped in with James Edwards since he’s been on Detroit. He doesn’t make up bs for headlines. He knows his stuff.

Being an honest reporter is the first requirement. Most Knicks reporters don't meet that one.

He meets it