Chicago Bulls select Noa Essengue - #12 overall

[GoBlue72391]

It would be nice for people to differentiate between having "no handle" and having "no advanced handle" when talking about Noa. Obviously from the stats he is not side to side breaking people down in the half court, but he can grab and go and looks very fluid attacking straight line (which is more useful than having side to side handles a majority of the time). When someone says he has "no handle" that makes me think of a player that gets the ball and the first dribble they put down the whole arena is thinking NOOOOO!

We're not talking Stanley Hudson here. It's obvious what people mean when they say "no handles." This is 2025, everyone in the league is capable of dribbling the ball.

Except Pat. He’s highly capable of dribbling it off his foot.

Ha, true.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

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This seems promising.

Playing statistical games with arbitrary cutoffs. Also, always take athletic testing with a grain of salt. You can use it to confirm the eye test, or to give you red flags, but it usually isn’t directly reflective of something that is not already evident on video.

Pat Connaughton is an elite vertical athlete based on testing…. 5th best jumper in combine history… but not so much in games. Jericho Sims (who is also bigger) is 4th best! Per this year’s combine, Kon and McNeilly are better vertical athletes than Cooper Flagg, and all 3 better than Beringer.

I hear you but these cutoffs don’t look entirely arbitrary.

For example, the max vert filter (33”) is set two inches lower than Essengue’s and the lane agility and 3/4 sprint times filters are .10 secs slower. They’ve given the query enough cushion on the inputs that it doesn’t feel like they’re narrowing the universe manipulatively.

And sure, you can go through and hand pick specific testing results that don’t match what we see on tape. That’s why combining multiple filters is helpful.

Besides, in this case Essengue’s athleticism *does* show up on tape. This query doesn’t prove he’s an uncommon basketball athlete; it’s another data point that confirms what we see with our eyes.

[Dresden]

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Granted, he said this was not one of his better games, but I don't see how you could look at those clips and think this guy was worthy of a first round grade.

[Dresden]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future. Essengue looks like he might be a 3 year project before we even know if he'll pan out or not, and even then, it's only 50/50. He seems to have some tremendous agility/speed for his height, but outside of that, I don't see what his selling points were.

[MGB8]

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This seems promising.

Playing statistical games with arbitrary cutoffs. Also, always take athletic testing with a grain of salt. You can use it to confirm the eye test, or to give you red flags, but it usually isn’t directly reflective of something that is not already evident on video.

Pat Connaughton is an elite vertical athlete based on testing…. 5th best jumper in combine history… but not so much in games. Jericho Sims (who is also bigger) is 4th best! Per this year’s combine, Kon and McNeilly are better vertical athletes than Cooper Flagg, and all 3 better than Beringer.

I hear you but these cutoffs don’t look entirely arbitrary.

For example, the max vert filter (33”) is set two inches lower than Essengue’s and the lane agility and 3/4 sprint times filters are .10 secs slower. They’ve given the query enough cushion on the inputs that it doesn’t feel like they’re narrowing the universe manipulatively.

And sure, you can go through and hand pick specific testing results that don’t match what we see on tape. That’s why combining multiple filters is helpful.

Besides, in this case Essengue’s athleticism *does* show up on tape. This query doesn’t prove he’s an uncommon basketball athlete; it’s another data point that confirms what we see with our eyes.

Oh, I def agree that the testing jives with what you see on film with Essengue. I just don’t like the whole “pick 4/5 things at X line and - “look, only Y players” as if that necessarily means anything. And also the caveat on athletic testing (goes for FB, too).

[kodo]

Noa’s entire game reads wing/forward. Why do we want him to be a center again?? Because he’s tall?

KD and Giannis are 6”11 guys too. Not at all centers.

Not sure if he'll be a good enough shooter for forward. We'll see, he's years away so anything can happen.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future. Essengue looks like he might be a 3 year project before we even know if he'll pan out or not, and even then, it's only 50/50. He seems to have some tremendous agility/speed for his height, but outside of that, I don't see what his selling points were.

- Played in a professional league since 17 years old (2 years)
- 2nd Youngest Player in Draft
- Elite combo of size, length, mobility, leaping
- Best FT Rate in class (he gets fouled a lot)
- Physical and loves taking it to the rim (lots of dunks), doesn't shy away from contact
- High motor, very active off-ball
- Solid vision/passing
- Can guard several positions and has foot speed/mobility to switch on guards and defend perimeter
- Good feel for the game (IQ) on offense and defense

If he adds 15 pounds of muscle and improves his handling/shooting.... look out. And those seem like very attainable goals whereas you can't teach many of the aforementioned selling points.

[waffle]

I do love his aggressiveness. Sort of like Buzelis, he knows where the basket is and heads THATAWAY

[DuckIII]

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Granted, he said this was not one of his better games, but I don't see how you could look at those clips and think this guy was worthy of a first round grade.

To be specific, he said it was “one of his worst games of the season.” How about we do one with only his best game? How much weight would you give it?

There is ample tape showing the basis for a high first round grade in an excellent draft. He’s a developmental prospect. He’s 18. There’s going to be all kinds of terrible tape too.

What are we doing here? Panicking because an obvious project pick - albeit one with a very unique physical profile that carries with it a very high ceiling - might bust? Of course he might bust. He might be a downright awful.

Some of you want sure things and think everything else is rubbish. You don’t get to draft high ceiling sure things picking 12th, folks. You get unsure things with high ceilings and do your level best, or you get sure things with ceilings you find standing in line in free agency every summer.

This is what you get when you refuse to get bad. So taking a guy like Essengue, given the path AK has chosen, is EXACTLY the type of risk he better damn well take.

[DuckIII]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future.

That’s how Shane Battier gets picked before Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph and Gerald Wallace.

Why, exactly, do we want to give meaningful weight to what our rookie will do next season? Are you hoping to increase our win total as quickly as possible?

[nomorezorro]

also like. not for nothing but taking a boom-or-bust kinda pick seems like the ideal approach for an AK hater

either he hits and the team has a shot of being good in spite of the terrible management, or he completely busts and we inch a little closer toward the team being so bad that even the reinsdorfs can't put up with it anymore. if this front office just constantly hits singles and doubles in the draft, they'll have jobs for life

[DuckIII]

Bottom line for me is that this is two straight off seasons in which AK has done a variety of things that suggest he’s starting to get it. The picking of someone like Essengue is evidence of that, whether it works or not.

He’s certainly doing better over that recent 13 month stretch than he did the 2 full seasons prior while he was buggering it all to hell with his fingers crossed and his phone turned off.

[Jcool0]

Bottom line for me is that this is two straight off seasons in which AK has done a variety of things that suggest he’s starting to get it. The picking of someone like Essengue is evidence of that, whether it works or not.

He’s certainly doing better over that recent 13 month stretch than he did the 2 full seasons prior while he was buggering it all to hell with his fingers crossed and his phone turned off.

What has he done that shows he gets it?

[Chi town]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future. Essengue looks like he might be a 3 year project before we even know if he'll pan out or not, and even then, it's only 50/50. He seems to have some tremendous agility/speed for his height, but outside of that, I don't see what his selling points were.

- Played in a professional league since 17 years old (2 years)
- 2nd Youngest Player in Draft
- Elite combo of size, length, mobility, leaping
- Best FT Rate in class (he gets fouled a lot)
- Physical and loves taking it to the rim (lots of dunks), doesn't shy away from contact
- High motor, very active off-ball
- Solid vision/passing
- Can guard several positions and has foot speed/mobility to switch on guards and defend perimeter
- Good feel for the game (IQ) on offense and defense

If he adds 15 pounds of muscle and improves his handling/shooting.... look out. And those seem like very attainable goals whereas you can't teach many of the aforementioned selling points.

Exactly.

Also think he will be greatly helped by Giddey feeding him and playing in this uptempo offense.

[Dresden]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future. Essengue looks like he might be a 3 year project before we even know if he'll pan out or not, and even then, it's only 50/50. He seems to have some tremendous agility/speed for his height, but outside of that, I don't see what his selling points were.

- Played in a professional league since 17 years old (2 years)
- 2nd Youngest Player in Draft
- Elite combo of size, length, mobility, leaping
- Best FT Rate in class (he gets fouled a lot)
- Physical and loves taking it to the rim (lots of dunks), doesn't shy away from contact
- High motor, very active off-ball
- Solid vision/passing
- Can guard several positions and has foot speed/mobility to switch on guards and defend perimeter
- Good feel for the game (IQ) on offense and defense

If he adds 15 pounds of muscle and improves his handling/shooting.... look out. And those seem like very attainable goals whereas you can't teach many of the aforementioned selling points.

If he truly does possess all those traits, then great. But in that short clip Stephen Noh posted, he said it didn't look like his motor was all that great- he seemed to not be engaged at times was how he put it. Also didn't seen anything in that clip that showed much of a feel for the game, and in fact he took several horrendously bad shots that missed everything, and he lost control of the ball when he tried bringing it up court by himself on another play. the passing thing is something else I haven't seen in any of his clips, even the highlights.

So let's hope he really can put this all together, but right now I just see a player who has some outstanding physical measurements (while lacking in others- such as weight/strength), and who has a propensity for getting to the foul line.

BTW, what did he shoot at the line? Maybe teams fouled him a lot because he couldn't make his ft's?

[Dresden]

Right now I hate the pick. Would have rather had Sorber, JK, Newell, Clifford or Bryant. At least all those guys you could see contributing in the not so distant future.

That’s how Shane Battier gets picked before Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph and Gerald Wallace.

Why, exactly, do we want to give meaningful weight to what our rookie will do next season? Are you hoping to increase our win total as quickly as possible?

It's also how Kwame Brown was taken before Richard Jefferson or Zach Randolph.

It just seems like a long shot that Essengue will develop into a good NBA player, and on top of that, we'll have to wait 2-3 years to even find out. I guess if the goal is to tank next season, then it's a good pick. But if you're trying to get better, then these other players were much less risky, and I'm not sure Essengue shows enough to warrant that risk. I mean, he seems miles away from being to see the floor.

I hope I'm wrong, but the more I read and see of him, the less I like the pick.

[GoBlue72391]

Noa’s entire game reads wing/forward. Why do we want him to be a center again?? Because he’s tall?

KD and Giannis are 6”11 guys too. Not at all centers.

Not sure if he'll be a good enough shooter for forward. We'll see, he's years away so anything can happen.

I guess I never considered the fact that if he never develops a shot/handle, down the line the plan B could have him bulk up and become a center.

That could theoretically raise his floor.

[fleet]

Weirdly chill and awkward athlete more like Donyell Marshall than Giannis kind of awkward

[sco]

I am unsure how he'll develop, but I wanted to reiterate how much I liked Billy's handling of Matas last season. I will be thrilled for a repeat with similar results with Noa this season. I think making the young guys earn their minutes the first season or two makes a difference in their development. That first season they have nowhere near the endurance to play big minutes for a whole season anyway, so using them as a motivational tool to get them to play and train the right way is just common sense.

[jnrjr79]

Bottom line for me is that this is two straight off seasons in which AK has done a variety of things that suggest he’s starting to get it. The picking of someone like Essengue is evidence of that, whether it works or not.

He’s certainly doing better over that recent 13 month stretch than he did the 2 full seasons prior while he was buggering it all to hell with his fingers crossed and his phone turned off.

What has he done that shows he gets it?

Kept the pick and used it on someone with a high ceiling, but a presumptively long timeline.