Chicago Bulls select Noa Essengue - #12 overall

[PaKii94]

Don't really want to comment on the draft but I get a good feeling from Noa. Giving me young jimmy B vibes. Don't really see star unless everything breaks right but I think he can be like a #3-4 on a high level team.

[dougthonus]

The entire build and the extension are two completely different things though.

I guess people can say he should have traded Lonzo to Memphis, but again there's a lot of hindsight there which is not something I do. I can see why we didn't take that deal at the time. But that deal was also available because of Lonzo's extension.

I'll toss this in the two things can be true category:

1: Hell yes we should have traded Lonzo for a 1st, and that didn't take any hindsight. If you said last summer, at the deadline you will have an opportunity to get a 1st for Lonzo, 95%+ of the people on this forum would have said that is awesome.

Some extra context people forget though: We would have taken on some bad salary, but we still should have been willing to do that and probably could have actually used Smart anyway unless he totally fell apart (haven't paid attention). Memphis's pick was slated at #26 at the time of trade, and they went into an absolute free fall.

2: The Lonzo extension was a no risk, high upside move. Loved it. If Lonzo had stayed healthy until the deadline, I think he would have been worth a ton on the trade market due to the optionality on his contract if things went wrong and his undisputable two way status for a playoff team if he stays healthy.

Only thing here is we then cashed out on that move too early and too meaningless a gain for me. Okoro is fine, and this trade is fine in a vacuum, but I view any time you trade for a soon to be UFA, that you're making a short term move, and while he is young enough you can pretend this isn't a short term move, if he breaks out, it's unlikely to be due to max player status, which means you just got a market value guy that you could have paid market value for anyway without trading for him (ie did not increase your asset base).

[DuckIII]

The entire build and the extension are two completely different things though.

I guess people can say he should have traded Lonzo to Memphis, but again there's a lot of hindsight there which is not something I do. I can see why we didn't take that deal at the time. But that deal was also available because of Lonzo's extension.

I'll toss this in the two things can be true category:

1: Hell yes we should have traded Lonzo for a 1st, and that didn't take any hindsight. If you said last summer, at the deadline you will have an opportunity to get a 1st for Lonzo, 95%+ of the people on this forum would have said that is awesome.

Some extra context people forget though: We would have taken on some bad salary, but we still should have been willing to do that and probably could have actually used Smart anyway unless he totally fell apart (haven't paid attention). Memphis's pick was slated at #26 at the time of trade, and they went into an absolute free fall.

2: The Lonzo extension was a no risk, high upside move. Loved it. If Lonzo had stayed healthy until the deadline, I think he would have been worth a ton on the trade market due to the optionality on his contract if things went wrong and his undisputable two way status for a playoff team if he stays healthy.

Only thing here is we then cashed out on that move too early and too meaningless a gain for me. Okoro is fine, and this trade is fine in a vacuum, but I view any time you trade for a soon to be UFA, that you're making a short term move, and while he is young enough you can pretend this isn't a short term move, if he breaks out, it's unlikely to be due to max player status, which means you just got a market value guy that you could have paid market value for anyway without trading for him (ie did not increase your asset base).

1. The hindsight part is the Memphis free fall. I evaluate trades based on the circumstances when they happen. The 26th pick for Ball is not a meaningful return to me that we had to jump on.

2. I stated earlier in this thread, had I been GM I would have preferred to let Ball play this year to see if we could get more than Okoro. But that’s a gamble for obvious reasons.

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

[dougthonus]

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

Fundamentally, I place zero value on trading for a guy and then paying him market value when you project to have cap space, and you quite literally have the choice of just paying him in the market. In two years, if he is on the roster, he still could be on the roster, likely at the same price, without us having traded for him.

Adding draft picks adds to your asset base, and adding market value players when you project to be way under the cap does not. That's more of a mathematical asset management model than I think a lot of people will use.

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

[DuckIII]

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

It may have still been true, and waiting was my preference as well. Or his value may have been reduced to zero. If it had been reduced to zero though, its not like NOT getting Okoro is some huge loss. This was a just trade for a role player to fill a specific roster need.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

I'm sure he knows how to do it. All he has to do is be a student of the league, which I assume all GMs are (maybe not Zeke Thomas ). I think he just believes other strategies are better, which is one of many reasons he's so terrible at his job.

As for thinking "too short term" he is. But he's also very clearly thinking "less short term, and more long term, than he had been." And what he had been doing was killing the franchise in a way that will take at least 5 years to dig out from. I believe AK's reign will prove to largely be an utterly lost decade. But at the mid-way point of that dark decade, he's starting to make moves trending in the right direction. He's not going all in on a full youth rebuild (yet), but he's made some very nice moves through Giddey, Matas and now Essengue that she he's focusing on and prioritizing it much more. These are good things.

I know you've been traveling, so here is my first take shortly after the deal was announced. I'm fine with this deal, and have probably inched closer to affirmatively liking it than when I wrote this post, but I still believe the following:

I’ll start by not being helpful to your request [IN RESPONSE TO SOMEONE ASKING FOR A POSITIVE SPIN ON THE TRADE]. I would have preferred to retain Lonzo, show he is healthy and playing well, and then trade him for a better return during the season. And if he shows he’s not capable of staying healthy, it’s just a loss if $10 million for one year with an opportunity cost of, well, Isaac Okoro. Hardly a franchise crippling downside to taking that small risk.

That said, it does not require too much spin to see it in a somewhat positive light, as I say as someone who views AK and Emperor Palpatine similarly.

1. Okoro is an excellent defender at multiple wing positions, which we badly need. He fits. (Though admittedly a fully healthy Lonzo can do that and more.)

2. Okoro’s contract aligns the with other contracts on our team and expires in the next two seasons. (Though so does Lonzo’s.)

3. He began with a reputation as a non-shooter, but the last two seasons he has shot it well from deep on solid volume. (Though, again, Lonzo is also a good shooter if he is healthy.)

4. Lonzo played like 40 games in 3 years and has a history, including recent history, of injuries that don’t even include the one that sidelined him for years. He’s not worth much.

Not sure that helps. Great trade for the Cavs. Exactly the type of swing they should look at. As for the Bulls, I feel lukewarm about it. Moves me neither to satisfaction nor anger.

[dougthonus]

As for thinking "too short term" he is. But he's also very clearly thinking "less short term, and more long term, than he had been." And what he had been doing was killing the franchise in a way that will take at least 5 years to dig out from. I believe AK's reign will prove to largely be an utterly lost decade. But at the mid-way point of that dark decade, he's starting to make moves trending in the right direction. He's not going all in on a full youth rebuild (yet), but he's made some very nice moves through Giddey, Matas and now Essengue that she he's focusing on and prioritizing it much more. These are good things.

I agree that he's better. His targets of players is something that excites me a lot more, and I agree with this assessment a lot. The big area of concern is he does a lot of things that shows he still has a very poor grasp of the time value of assets and the salary cap. He seems to deal with each move in a vacuum still.

1. Okoro is an excellent defender at multiple wing positions, which we badly need. He fits. (Though admittedly a fully healthy Lonzo can do that and more.)

2. Okoro’s contract aligns the with other contracts on our team and expires in the next two seasons. (Though so does Lonzo’s.)

3. He began with a reputation as a non-shooter, but the last two seasons he has shot it well from deep on solid volume. (Though, again, Lonzo is also a good shooter if he is healthy.)

4. Lonzo played like 40 games in 3 years and has a history, including recent history, of injuries that don’t even include the one that sidelined him for years. He’s not worth much.

Not sure that helps. Great trade for the Cavs. Exactly the type of swing they should look at. As for the Bulls, I feel lukewarm about it. Moves me neither to satisfaction nor anger.

One of the caveats I will give AK is I don't know how much internal pressure he has to make the playoffs this year. If that pressure is high and mandated by ownership, this move makes more sense, as do some of his other moves. If he really has more flexibility to be bad even for a single season or two, then the decision to go for the playoffs last year and this year in stacked draft classes and hang on to Coby/Ayo are a lot worse.

Somewhat unknowable information, but if I were in his seat, I would be laying out my asset plan to ownership and saying we'll be bad for 25 and 26 but they are great drafts, then we will move Coby / Ayo for picks, and still have a 100M+ in 2026 summer to reload with young veterans while being way more stocked up with young talent.

If ownership wouldn't sign off on a two year dip with a very precise plan as to how to get out of it, then my actions may not look so disimilar to his recent ones.

[JohnnyTapwater]

I like Noa when I think about him as a pick coming straight from high-school, but in his case, he has proven he can produce at a high level against NBA players.

And he's a One Piece fan.

But his shoulders bother me in the sense, I'm nervous about his frame and his ability to build his muscle mass.

[ghostinthepost1]

I like Noa when I think about him as a pick coming straight from high-school, but in his case, he has proven he can produce at a high level against NBA players.

And he's a One Piece fan.

But his shoulders bother me in the sense, I'm nervous about his frame and his ability to build his muscle mass.

For anyone worried that Noa won't be able to put on muscle, I'd like to introduce you to his father Gaston Essengue who played for UNLV and then pro-basketball internationally until 2022.

[sco]

I like Noa when I think about him as a pick coming straight from high-school, but in his case, he has proven he can produce at a high level against NBA players.

And he's a One Piece fan.

But his shoulders bother me in the sense, I'm nervous about his frame and his ability to build his muscle mass.

For anyone worried that Noa won't be able to put on muscle, I'd like to introduce you to his father Gaston Essengue who played for UNLV and then pro-basketball internationally until 2022.

Was he the inspiration for the Beauty and the Beast character with the same name?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I like Noa when I think about him as a pick coming straight from high-school, but in his case, he has proven he can produce at a high level against NBA players.

And he's a One Piece fan.

But his shoulders bother me in the sense, I'm nervous about his frame and his ability to build his muscle mass.

For anyone worried that Noa won't be able to put on muscle, I'd like to introduce you to his father Gaston Essengue who played for UNLV and then pro-basketball internationally until 2022.

I feel like I shouldn’t put much stock in this, but I’m going to anyway. Nice find!

[Chi town]

https://youtu.be/hB2bjeLUx4o?si=7iSxTk8ShRcxXrgh

[TheJordanRule]

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

Fundamentally, I place zero value on trading for a guy and then paying him market value when you project to have cap space, and you quite literally have the choice of just paying him in the market. In two years, if he is on the roster, he still could be on the roster, likely at the same price, without us having traded for him.

Adding draft picks adds to your asset base, and adding market value players when you project to be way under the cap does not. That's more of a mathematical asset management model than I think a lot of people will use.

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

I WANTED to love the Okoro trade. I wanted to be like, "AK found the next Giddey in Okoro. YES!!! He is on a roll!" But Okoro probably isn't that guy when there's next to nothing in that bag offensively. I'm an outlier since I'm not crazy about draft picks. When we made the deal for Giddey, I was on cloud nine even though everyone else thought it was a ripoff since we didn't get a pick. The difference is that Giddey was a premium prospect. Okoro is not. We needed a draft pick in the deal for Okoro acknowledging that fact. I don't care that he was the former #5 pick in 2020. This is a dude who could easily be out of the league in two years if he doesn't get his act together on offense. Giddey was never in danger of that. This is not it, Bubba.

[sco]

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

Fundamentally, I place zero value on trading for a guy and then paying him market value when you project to have cap space, and you quite literally have the choice of just paying him in the market. In two years, if he is on the roster, he still could be on the roster, likely at the same price, without us having traded for him.

Adding draft picks adds to your asset base, and adding market value players when you project to be way under the cap does not. That's more of a mathematical asset management model than I think a lot of people will use.

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

I WANTED to love the Okoro trade. I wanted to be like, "AK found the next Giddey in Okoro. YES!!! He is on a roll!" But Okoro probably isn't that guy when there's next to nothing in that bag offensively. I'm an outlier since I'm not crazy about draft picks. When we made the deal for Giddey, I was on cloud nine even though everyone else thought it was a ripoff since we didn't get a pick. The difference is that Giddey was a premium prospect. Okoro is not. We needed a draft pick in the deal for Okoro acknowledging that fact. I don't care that he was the former #5 pick in 2020. This is a dude who could easily be out of the league in two years if he doesn't get his act together on offense. Giddey was never in danger of that. This is not it, Bubba.

I'm with you, I wanted more. That said, other than the rumored deal where we'd be taking back a bad contract in Smart (who's pretty done) I tend to doubt there were any better deals to be had. I think that Tre showed that he pretty much checked all the same boxes as Zo, except being able to guard big 2's and 3's. Getting Okoro filled that hole. Now instead of one guy who can play maybe 50 games at 20mpg, you have 2 guys who can each give you 30MPG. Now could we have nabbed a similar talent with FA money? Probably, but now we can (optimistically) use it to nab a C upgrade.

[TheJordanRule]

Fundamentally, I place zero value on trading for a guy and then paying him market value when you project to have cap space, and you quite literally have the choice of just paying him in the market. In two years, if he is on the roster, he still could be on the roster, likely at the same price, without us having traded for him.

Adding draft picks adds to your asset base, and adding market value players when you project to be way under the cap does not. That's more of a mathematical asset management model than I think a lot of people will use.

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

I WANTED to love the Okoro trade. I wanted to be like, "AK found the next Giddey in Okoro. YES!!! He is on a roll!" But Okoro probably isn't that guy when there's next to nothing in that bag offensively. I'm an outlier since I'm not crazy about draft picks. When we made the deal for Giddey, I was on cloud nine even though everyone else thought it was a ripoff since we didn't get a pick. The difference is that Giddey was a premium prospect. Okoro is not. We needed a draft pick in the deal for Okoro acknowledging that fact. I don't care that he was the former #5 pick in 2020. This is a dude who could easily be out of the league in two years if he doesn't get his act together on offense. Giddey was never in danger of that. This is not it, Bubba.

I'm with you, I wanted more. That said, other than the rumored deal where we'd be taking back a bad contract in Smart (who's pretty done) I tend to doubt there were any better deals to be had. I think that Tre showed that he pretty much checked all the same boxes as Zo, except being able to guard big 2's and 3's. Getting Okoro filled that hole. Now instead of one guy who can play maybe 50 games at 20mpg, you have 2 guys who can each give you 30MPG. Now could we have nabbed a similar talent with FA money? Probably, but now we can (optimistically) use it to nab a C upgrade.

I am glad you pointed that out, Sco! I agree with you that Tre is a major upgrade at PG over what we had last year, and that Okoro is strong defensively. As far as center goes, I just don't know if there's anyone in free agency who would represent a significant upgrade over what we have at a palatable price, unfortunately. Paul Reed just signed with the Pistons and Day'Ron Sharpe just re-signed with the Nets. With Capela and Turner and Lopez already off the board, there's next to no one who would be an appealing option. I think the only half decent guy left is Chris Boucher, and it's anyone's guess how much he's worth. Boucher comes across as streaky as hell, with some impressive upside to go with a garbage floor. But I'd take that over Vuce lumbering down the floor for the umpteenth time. On the other hand, I certainly don't want to pay Boucher like Vuce lol.

[kodo]

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

Fundamentally, I place zero value on trading for a guy and then paying him market value when you project to have cap space, and you quite literally have the choice of just paying him in the market. In two years, if he is on the roster, he still could be on the roster, likely at the same price, without us having traded for him.

Adding draft picks adds to your asset base, and adding market value players when you project to be way under the cap does not. That's more of a mathematical asset management model than I think a lot of people will use.

Still I'm not up in arms over passing on the Lonzo trade at the deadline, because I thought once we signed him to that extension, that we actually had upside to get a way better pick later, and if we had not traded for Okoro, I think that still may have been true.

I'm fine with the Okoro trade, but it is still a sign to me that AK doesn't know how to grow his asset base and is still thinking too short term.

I WANTED to love the Okoro trade. I wanted to be like, "AK found the next Giddey in Okoro. YES!!! He is on a roll!" But Okoro probably isn't that guy when there's next to nothing in that bag offensively. I'm an outlier since I'm not crazy about draft picks. When we made the deal for Giddey, I was on cloud nine even though everyone else thought it was a ripoff since we didn't get a pick. The difference is that Giddey was a premium prospect. Okoro is not. We needed a draft pick in the deal for Okoro acknowledging that fact. I don't care that he was the former #5 pick in 2020. This is a dude who could easily be out of the league in two years if he doesn't get his act together on offense. Giddey was never in danger of that. This is not it, Bubba.

Out of the league? This is the guy who led a 64 team in net rating, top 20 in the league in RAPM. His value is going to be similar to other low scoring high RAPM players like DFS ($53M new contract). And Okoro is a 59% TS player as a defender, which is the same efficiency as Coby White which is better than all other guards & wings on the Bulls.

I don't think there's any Giddey comp, Giddey was a trade of the Bulls most valuable asset, Caruso.
Okoro was the result of the Bulls worst asset, Lonzo. I would give about a 2nd round pick for a player who is only able to play decent minutes 16 games of a season.

People are equating Lonzo to be worth a 1st round pick because of the failed Memphis trade, but that trade was to eat Smart's bad contract not for Lonzo. They just turned around and did the same deal with another and also gave up a 1st round pick to get off Smart's $41M. And at the time of the trade, Memphis was the 4th best team in the league so that 1st rounder was expected to be 27th, basically a 2nd rounder.

[TheJordanRule]

The entire build and the extension are two completely different things though.

I guess people can say he should have traded Lonzo to Memphis, but again there's a lot of hindsight there which is not something I do. I can see why we didn't take that deal at the time. But that deal was also available because of Lonzo's extension.

I'll toss this in the two things can be true category:

1: Hell yes we should have traded Lonzo for a 1st, and that didn't take any hindsight. If you said last summer, at the deadline you will have an opportunity to get a 1st for Lonzo, 95%+ of the people on this forum would have said that is awesome.

Some extra context people forget though: We would have taken on some bad salary, but we still should have been willing to do that and probably could have actually used Smart anyway unless he totally fell apart (haven't paid attention). Memphis's pick was slated at #26 at the time of trade, and they went into an absolute free fall.

2: The Lonzo extension was a no risk, high upside move. Loved it. If Lonzo had stayed healthy until the deadline, I think he would have been worth a ton on the trade market due to the optionality on his contract if things went wrong and his undisputable two way status for a playoff team if he stays healthy.

Only thing here is we then cashed out on that move too early and too meaningless a gain for me. Okoro is fine, and this trade is fine in a vacuum, but I view any time you trade for a soon to be UFA, that you're making a short term move, and while he is young enough you can pretend this isn't a short term move, if he breaks out, it's unlikely to be due to max player status, which means you just got a market value guy that you could have paid market value for anyway without trading for him (ie did not increase your asset base).

1. The hindsight part is the Memphis free fall. I evaluate trades based on the circumstances when they happen. The 26th pick for Ball is not a meaningful return to me that we had to jump on.

2. I stated earlier in this thread, had I been GM I would have preferred to let Ball play this year to see if we could get more than Okoro. But that’s a gamble for obvious reasons.

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

The 26th pick in a loaded draft, brother. KJ fell to #20 and we famously did not do anything to pick him up on the cheap. If you're sitting at #26 and KJ is in a free fall, it's time to start working the phones. Beyond that, guys like Danny Wolf, Nique Clifford and Asa Newell were all in that range. Okoro fits a team need only when we look at what he is defensively. I'm sick of one dimensional guys who can only contribute on one side of the ball. I look at the stats, and the progression is DOA aside from shooting threes. That should be a red flag. How is your game not progressing, five years into this?

[sco]

I'll toss this in the two things can be true category:

1: Hell yes we should have traded Lonzo for a 1st, and that didn't take any hindsight. If you said last summer, at the deadline you will have an opportunity to get a 1st for Lonzo, 95%+ of the people on this forum would have said that is awesome.

Some extra context people forget though: We would have taken on some bad salary, but we still should have been willing to do that and probably could have actually used Smart anyway unless he totally fell apart (haven't paid attention). Memphis's pick was slated at #26 at the time of trade, and they went into an absolute free fall.

2: The Lonzo extension was a no risk, high upside move. Loved it. If Lonzo had stayed healthy until the deadline, I think he would have been worth a ton on the trade market due to the optionality on his contract if things went wrong and his undisputable two way status for a playoff team if he stays healthy.

Only thing here is we then cashed out on that move too early and too meaningless a gain for me. Okoro is fine, and this trade is fine in a vacuum, but I view any time you trade for a soon to be UFA, that you're making a short term move, and while he is young enough you can pretend this isn't a short term move, if he breaks out, it's unlikely to be due to max player status, which means you just got a market value guy that you could have paid market value for anyway without trading for him (ie did not increase your asset base).

1. The hindsight part is the Memphis free fall. I evaluate trades based on the circumstances when they happen. The 26th pick for Ball is not a meaningful return to me that we had to jump on.

2. I stated earlier in this thread, had I been GM I would have preferred to let Ball play this year to see if we could get more than Okoro. But that’s a gamble for obvious reasons.

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

The 26th pick in a loaded draft, brother. KJ fell to #20 and we famously did not do anything to pick him up on the cheap. If you're sitting at #26 and KJ is in a free fall, it's time to start working the phones. Beyond that, guys like Danny Wolf, Nique Clifford and Asa Newell were all in that range. Okoro fits a team need only when we look at what he is defensively. I'm sick of one dimensional guys who can only contribute on one side of the ball. I look at the stats, and the progression is DOA aside from shooting threes. That should be a red flag. How is your game not progressing, five years into this?

Yeah but that's 20/20 hindsight.

[madvillian]

Don't really want to comment on the draft but I get a good feeling from Noa. Giving me young jimmy B vibes. Don't really see star unless everything breaks right but I think he can be like a #3-4 on a high level team.

After I learned his dad was a pro I felt even better about it. He has good bloodlines in addition to the other attributes.

[TheJordanRule]

1. The hindsight part is the Memphis free fall. I evaluate trades based on the circumstances when they happen. The 26th pick for Ball is not a meaningful return to me that we had to jump on.

2. I stated earlier in this thread, had I been GM I would have preferred to let Ball play this year to see if we could get more than Okoro. But that’s a gamble for obvious reasons.

But that logic applies to the Memphis pick as well. I don’t understand why it was smart to hurry up and trade him for what looked like a pick in the mid-20s, but we should have been patient and not trade him now for Okoro (who fits a very specific and widely identified team need, is young, cheap, and likely as good or better than what normally ends up happening to mid 20s picks).

The patience strategy applies to both scenarios (at the time they were on the table).

I don’t really see much of an issue here until you inject the hindsight of Memphis’ plummet.

The 26th pick in a loaded draft, brother. KJ fell to #20 and we famously did not do anything to pick him up on the cheap. If you're sitting at #26 and KJ is in a free fall, it's time to start working the phones. Beyond that, guys like Danny Wolf, Nique Clifford and Asa Newell were all in that range. Okoro fits a team need only when we look at what he is defensively. I'm sick of one dimensional guys who can only contribute on one side of the ball. I look at the stats, and the progression is DOA aside from shooting threes. That should be a red flag. How is your game not progressing, five years into this?

Yeah but that's 20/20 hindsight.

Was it hindsight, brother? Let's be honest. We knew this year's draft was gonna be unusually loaded since the start of the previous season. I'm glad there are more people who are positive about AK's choices than me, since I prefer an optimistic outlook to the negativity coming out of me right now. I want to like the deal for Okoro and would love it if he shows me up and proves me wrong.

[waffle]

I like Tre. I like Okoro. I think we are getting closer to the team we are trying to be. Is that a good thing? Dunno

I also think Noa was a high value pick at 12.

All this STILL adds up to us being dreadful next year and maybe, just maybe, good in a couple