Shams: Turner to MIL

[jbk1234]

The Pacers paying tax in 2025-26 would be insane from a business perspective. Simon is not what Simon was 30 year ago. Malls are dead, they were in the shopping mall business. Most of the Pacers owners net worth is the Pacers franchise. This isn't a guy who has $50 billion with $20 billion in the bank. This team has to make sense and can't be a money pit.

The Pacers owners don't want to pay tax right. So that's bad, but what's Boston's issue? They don't want to pay tax for a team that might finish 8th so they dumped salary and may dump more. If my calculation is close they are at $209 million. $20 million in the tax, and looking for a taker for Simons who's expiring.

The Celtics have been in the repeater tax for awhile now and were a 2nd apron team. Their tax bill was unsustainable and they're looking to reset the repeater clock. They have two players on supermax contracts. It is nothing like the Pacers situation.

The Pacers could've paid Turner $25M and ducked the tax by parting with another player. The owner could have sold off a minority percentage of the team at a $2.5-3B evaluation to help defray the expense. This is bad. It will have long-term consequences for the organization.

As for selling off a minority stake in the team I think they already did that as Herb only owns 80% of it. "Steven Rales owns the 20% minority interest in the Indiana Pacers, according to Bleacher Report. He previously held a 5% stake and recently purchased an additional 15% from Herb Simon, bringing his total ownership to 20%."

So sell 20% more. Sell the entire thing. What you don't do is send the message that you never intend to spend regardless of how good the team is because the fans and the players will make their own decisions in response.

[basketballwacko2]

I've been a Pacer fan from the very beginning. In the 70s, I had a law office on the same floor of the Circle Tower Building as Bob Salyers who had been trying to promote a down town hotel and his hotel connections in LA led to him being in the Pacers front office. I know how bad things were. I had tickets when the upper deck was curtained off so you didn't see the empty seats. I remember having dinner with Bob, another Pacer exec, and my then wife who was Irsay's PR Rep. The Pacers were bleeding money after the brawl. Now NBA franchise values have skyrocketed and it very much worked out for the Simons. But to characterize their ownership as putting money ahead of the City ignores the real history.

someone said this isn't a repeater tax situation. in a way it is because paying tax this year would have made the next year a repeat. we've avoided starting that clock.

we've also retained the ability to keep Mathurin, Nembhard, Nesmith, Walker, and Toppin without busting the bank.

also, you might want to read C_2Cooper's piece today about Turner's on court issues. there were basketball as well as money issues,D

Do I wish we'd kept Turner? absolutely. But this is not bad,

I'm a little younger than you, but not much. I go back to watching the ABA Pacers who were a great team, play at the Coliseum at the Fairgrounds. Before Market Square Arena. I remember telethon to save the team from folding. I've seen the terrible draft picks and the few good ones. The terrible trades, Alex English for George McGinnis, the Brad Miller trade, the Antonio Davis for Jonathon Bender trade. Victor Oladipo's torn quad. One of the worst things I've ever seen was Haliburton on the deck with his Achilles blown out.

I hate letting Turner go it blows chucks and next season is gonna stink. I'm fresh out of optimism.

[basketballwacko2]

The Celtics have been in the repeater tax for awhile now and were a 2nd apron team. Their tax bill was unsustainable and they're looking to reset the repeater clock. They have two players on supermax contracts. It is nothing like the Pacers situation.

The Pacers could've paid Turner $25M and ducked the tax by parting with another player. The owner could have sold off a minority percentage of the team at a $2.5-3B evaluation to help defray the expense. This is bad. It will have long-term consequences for the organization.

As for selling off a minority stake in the team I think they already did that as Herb only owns 80% of it. "Steven Rales owns the 20% minority interest in the Indiana Pacers, according to Bleacher Report. He previously held a 5% stake and recently purchased an additional 15% from Herb Simon, bringing his total ownership to 20%."

So sell 20% more. Sell the entire thing. What you don't do is send the message that you never intend to spend regardless of how good the team is because the fans and the players will make their own decisions in response.

The Minority owner Steven Rales will probably be the owner at some point. He's worth about $9 billion and it's not all the value of the team.

[Wizop]

I'm fresh out of optimism.

and that from our resident glass half empty guy.

[oldncreaky]

I’m not a Pacer fan, but I would’ve wanted to dump Toppin with seconds and then trade Mathurin for a meh first before losing Turner.

I mostly agree with this -- especially since there are a few teams (like Detroit!) who could really use a stretch PF and might even give a couple of SRPs to get Obi, and Toppin was a pretty useful player in these recent playoff run

I think IND could have moved Toppin, signed Turner, and deferred any decision on Mathurin until either the TDL or even next July, all while avoiding luxury tax -- and revisit next off-season. That would have been my approach as a fan of the game who really has enjoyed Indy the last couple of playoff runs.

[zimpy27]

Wow

I'm shocked by this. Bargain deal.for Turner also.

[oldncreaky]

Andrew Nembhard / TJ McConnell
Bennedict Mathurin / Ben Sheppard
Aaron Nesmith / Jarace Walker
Pascal Siakam / Obi Toppin

If they can solve the centre position, there's a decent team there. Still probably outside of the Top 8 in the East, but something for Haliburton to return to in 2026/2027.

but is it outside the top 10?

The worst five teams in the East are Boston, Brookly, Charlotte, Toronto, and Washington, D.C. Indy are in the next tier with the Bulls and the Heat. They could make the lottery but it's not a lock.

I'm a bit more optimistic than most of the Indiana fans posting in this thread

I look at that line up, assuming they add a couple of min-salary Cs like Bradley or Bryant or whatever, and I think they're probably a bit above .500 in a weak EC. Even though they don't have a C, they've got 8 guys who legitimately deserve PT. I think C is the one position where you can get away with journeymen who can rebound, defend the paint, and do something (anything) useful on O, even if it is just setting picks.

I mean Siakam dragged worse Raptor squads (no C at all, no backup PG, weak shooting) to 48 and 41 wins in 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons, and if anything I think Siakam is slightly better now than he was a few seasons ago. So I'd guess 45 wins, and a first round exit

[zimpy27]

Fascinating move to stretch and waive Dame. I think the right call. Suns should do it with Beal.if he can agree to give back $14m.

[SlimShady83]

Will this keep Giannis happy??

[Domejandro]

I am extremely confused why Indiana wouldn’t offer more to retain Myles Turner.

[Wizop]

I’m not a Pacer fan, but I would’ve wanted to dump Toppin with seconds and then trade Mathurin for a meh first before losing Turner.

and given that choice, I'd lose Turner.

[jayjaysee]

I’m not a Pacer fan, but I would’ve wanted to dump Toppin with seconds and then trade Mathurin for a meh first before losing Turner.

and given that choice, I'd lose Turner.

Do you want the team to trade Pascal for youth and get ready for 2026-2027? Or is it just Turner?

[Wizop]

I’m not a Pacer fan, but I would’ve wanted to dump Toppin with seconds and then trade Mathurin for a meh first before losing Turner.

and given that choice, I'd lose Turner.

Do you want the team to trade Pascal for youth and get ready for 2026-2027? Or is it just Turner?

I don't want to trade Pascal but I speculated after the Finals that we might. I doubt we'd have been outbid for Turner if a Siakam trade were planned.

[axeman23]

Wow, after what feels like a decade of "will they/won't they move Turner?", he moves HIMSELF! Didn't see that coming, thought he'd be a lifer by this point...

[axeman23]

UGH.

Ugly and brutal for Indy. Especially at that low of salary.

Has to be a sign and trade. Essentially has to require Kuzma's involvement, too. Serious ugh...

HOLY CRAP. STRETCH WAIVING DAME....

Might be the most brutal part of the whole thing, TBH. Of all the ways Dame's career could possibly end, I doubt many had "waved & stretched" on their bingo cards...

[nykballa2k4]

Where does Indy go for a center now?

Really hope it's Ayton just because I really don't want him to be in LA

[MoneyTalks41890]

I probably missed this if it got discussed but I love Windy’s assessment of “mortgaging your mortgage to get a sports car”

[gswhoops]

I probably missed this if it got discussed but I love Windy’s assessment of “mortgaging your mortgage to get a sports car”

Yeah I laughed out loud at that one. ESPN is transparently desperate for Giannis to force his way to a bigger market.

(also I think the phrase he was looking for is "taking out a second mortgage" to get a sports car)

[OxAndFox]

Definitely did not have all this on my bingo card.

Think for the Pacers they don't need to panic. Stay below the tax and set up for the following season. Give Jackson a starting role, keep Jarace developing and watch Mathurin raise his value to the point this time next year they will be able to move him for significant value.

If I'm being honest I would put money down the Pacers are a top 4 seed next season still. The young guys will shock people. Having said that, sometimes a finals run can flatten a team and can't go again, but I don't see that with these guys. They just have way, way too much talent and depth still. Seriously this seasons back ups and 3rd stringers would have made the play in over the Bulls. Stay the course.

[jayjaysee]

Definitely did not have all this on my bingo card.

Think for the Pacers they don't need to panic. Stay below the tax and set up for the following season. Give Jackson a starting role, keep Jarace developing and watch Mathurin raise his value to the point this time next year they will be able to move him for significant value.

Mathurin will be an RFA this time next year. Time to move him now if that’s the hope.