Bill Simmons RIPS the Raptors roster and salaries. (UPDATE Zach Lowe & Rob Mahoney go in on Raptors)

[MiamiSPX]

Bill is just a fan, not some high level basketball thinker like a Lowe, and has always been. So just remember that before getting too worked up. His takes aren't anything to take too seriously. At least any more than what you'd read from fans on here, reddit, or elsewhere.

Yup, that's all it is. I'm a big Simmons guy, even with this weird, inexplicable hate he's always had for the Raptors lol. But he is not to be taken seriously. He and Russillo often joke about how Raptors fans are going to attack them online after a hot take, but that is exactly what they want. Simmons is arguably the godfather of sports podcasting, he knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to clicks and engagements.

Yep, been reading Bill's stuff since the page 2 days and he's always been the same. Definitely more entertaining before his Boston teams started winning everything (which in retrospect was 20 years ago now) and in a written format but I can't hate on his success over the past 25 years. I think his platform and influence (people who maybe don't know any better who'd take his word as gospel) obviously plays a part in why there's such vitriol to what he says, but at the end of the day it's really not any different from arguing against what some random Celtics fan/poster thinks. And when taken in that context it makes all the handwringing a little funny.

Spot on. I also followed him since his Page 2 days, then to Grantland and now to The Ringer. I have nothing but admiration for a guy that has amassed a 9-figure net worth doing something the rest of us sports nut degenerates would do for free lol.

[ForeverTFC]

Going by the comments, I have to assume most here don’t listen to Simmons and Russillo regularly.

I’ve been reading Simmons since Page 2 and listen to Simmons and Russillo pods regularly; Simmons out of habit and Russillo because he has the best pod out there - 2nd now after Lowe.

Simmons doesn’t like the Raptors. He thinks Scottie’s contract is one of the worst in the league. He’s also extremely petty and the Perkins stuff is going to get him dug in.

Russillo hates Raptors fans because of what happened after he talked **** about Lowry. He’s made it clear that he will never forgive Raptors fans.

I will save you all the trouble with bumping this thread when over/unders come out - they will have us as one of their locks for the under.

Curious what he said about Lowry? Just recently started listening to bill and Russillo and these recent podcasts they had I could clearly see this werid agenda he has against our team. I can see why raptors fan attack him.

He's a Lowry hater (ironic given CP3 is one of his favorite players) and said he doesn't deserve to get into the hall of fame but will anyways - it was your regular US media take. Raptors fans on social media did their usual online bullying but then took it too far and brought his family and nieces into it, which got really bad and progressed to downright awful:

Read on Twitter

When this happened, Russillo said he'll never forgive Toronto, that he'll hold the entire fanbase accountable, and has since found every opportunity to **** on the Raptors and rub it in our face. I will say, when Bill said Scottie was like the 50th best player in the league, even Russillo couldn't go along with that one.

Our fanbase in particular is downright nasty online - it's beyond any other fanbase in the league. Here is more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/itdypm/shame_on_raptors_fans/

[DG88]

How are we the bleakest team? Can they see 5 years into the future? It's not like the Raptors are over the 2nd Apron, have a bunch players 35+, and have traded away all their future picks over the next 5 years lol.

Look how things have changed with some teams within a 5 year span. Making these conclusions is just asinine and is all for clicks for Bill Simmons and Ryen Russilio

I guess it’s how you define bleak. I’d say it’s somewhat bleak in the sense that the FO seems set on building a 45 win team year after year. There is nothing wrong with 45 wins but at some point we have to ask ourselves how do we go from 45 to 55 wins? I don’t really see the upside of this current team. Barnes progress has stalled. Ingram is a borderline all-star. We can talk about our ability to reset but our current method of “reset” has been to acquire guys like IQ and RJ, who aren’t exactly high ceiling guys. Then we’ve doubled down on Poeltl (a fine player) who is not a great fit with Barnes or our recent lotto pick (CMB). It seems like we’re never going to full on tank as a rebuild method.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable if we wake up 4 years from now and we’re still in the same spot we are now. We currently lack any high end upside and the guy who was supposed to help us get our next star because of how well respected around the league he was (Masai) is no longer here.

Are we in the worst spot? Absolutely not. We can pivot but the pivots haven’t exactly engulfed us in upside (OG and Siakam for Ingram, IQ and RJ seems like a very lateral move at the moment). The upside isn’t all that high at the moment. I don’t Simmons and Russilo’s opinions are that controversial outside of Raptors homerdom.

Here's the last 5 years:
20/21: 27-45 (Tampa Tank)
21/22: 48-34
22/23: 41-41
23/24: 25-57
24/25: 30-52

The only time we were building a team with a "45" win ceiling were post Tampa trying to develop and be competitive. After that we've essentially been tanking for 2 years and acquiring young pieces and young vet talent along the way. It's only going into this season that we're trying to see results in the W column. This team hasn't been healthy in 2 years and we haven't seen what BI looks like in the lineup. During the DeRozan and Lowry years we didn't know how we'd become a 50+ win team, but through internal growth and talent acquisition we got there. Let this thing breathe and see.

[littlerock2277]

Going by the comments, I have to assume most here don’t listen to Simmons and Russillo regularly.

I’ve been reading Simmons since Page 2 and listen to Simmons and Russillo pods regularly; Simmons out of habit and Russillo because he has the best pod out there - 2nd now after Lowe.

Simmons doesn’t like the Raptors. He thinks Scottie’s contract is one of the worst in the league. He’s also extremely petty and the Perkins stuff is going to get him dug in.

Russillo hates Raptors fans because of what happened after he talked **** about Lowry. He’s made it clear that he will never forgive Raptors fans.

I will save you all the trouble with bumping this thread when over/unders come out - they will have us as one of their locks for the under.

Curious what he said about Lowry? Just recently started listening to bill and Russillo and these recent podcasts they had I could clearly see this werid agenda he has against our team. I can see why raptors fan attack him.

He's a Lowry hater (ironic given CP3 is one of his favorite players) and said he doesn't deserve to get into the hall of fame but will anyways - it was your regular US media take. Raptors fans on social media did their usual online bullying but then took it too far and brought his family and nieces into it, which got really bad and progressed to downright awful:

Read on Twitter

When this happened, Russillo said he'll never forgive Toronto, that he'll hold the entire fanbase accountable, and has since found every opportunity to **** on the Raptors and rub it in our face. I will say, when Bill said Scottie was like the 50th best player in the league, even Russillo couldn't go along with that one.

Our fanbase in particular is downright nasty online - it's beyond any other fanbase in the league. Here is more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/itdypm/shame_on_raptors_fans/

Definitely against cyber bullying, not a good experience to feel. But thank you for that, I swear I was wondering the whole time what’s his agenda against the raptors. He kept contradicting himself saying we had the bleakest future because of how we used our cap space but then goes along ranks teams like chartotle and Miami higher then us when we’re practically in the same position. Even states he liked phoenix situation just because they have Devin booker. Not sure what to make of them, they seem to really enjoy evaluating every contract a player gets.

[ConSarnit]

How are we the bleakest team? Can they see 5 years into the future? It's not like the Raptors are over the 2nd Apron, have a bunch players 35+, and have traded away all their future picks over the next 5 years lol.

Look how things have changed with some teams within a 5 year span. Making these conclusions is just asinine and is all for clicks for Bill Simmons and Ryen Russilio

I guess it’s how you define bleak. I’d say it’s somewhat bleak in the sense that the FO seems set on building a 45 win team year after year. There is nothing wrong with 45 wins but at some point we have to ask ourselves how do we go from 45 to 55 wins? I don’t really see the upside of this current team. Barnes progress has stalled. Ingram is a borderline all-star. We can talk about our ability to reset but our current method of “reset” has been to acquire guys like IQ and RJ, who aren’t exactly high ceiling guys. Then we’ve doubled down on Poeltl (a fine player) who is not a great fit with Barnes or our recent lotto pick (CMB). It seems like we’re never going to full on tank as a rebuild method.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable if we wake up 4 years from now and we’re still in the same spot we are now. We currently lack any high end upside and the guy who was supposed to help us get our next star because of how well respected around the league he was (Masai) is no longer here.

Are we in the worst spot? Absolutely not. We can pivot but the pivots haven’t exactly engulfed us in upside (OG and Siakam for Ingram, IQ and RJ seems like a very lateral move at the moment). The upside isn’t all that high at the moment. I don’t Simmons and Russilo’s opinions are that controversial outside of Raptors homerdom.

Here's the last 5 years:
20/21: 27-45 (Tampa Tank)
21/22: 48-34
22/23: 41-41
23/24: 25-57
24/25: 30-52

The only time we were building a team with a "45" win ceiling were post Tampa trying to develop and be competitive. After that we've essentially been tanking for 2 years and acquiring young pieces and young vet talent along the way. It's only going into this season that we're trying to see results in the W column. This team hasn't been healthy in 2 years and we haven't see what BI looks like in the lineup. During the DeRozan and Lowry years we didn't know how we'd become a 50+ win team, but through internal growth and talent acquisition we got there. Let this thing breathe and see.

22/23: traded for Poeltl (win-now move)

22/23 off season: re-signed Poeltl, signed Schroder. We were clearly trying to win

23/24: started off trying to win. Traded OG for RJ and IQ which was clearly not a tank driven move

Our “tanking” has 100% been driven because of injury or just plain lack of ability. We have not made clear tear it down type moves. If we have been tanking for 2 years we’ve been doing the worst job of it. Two tanking years where we would have ended up with the 8th and 9th picks. We were very clearly not tanking to begin the 23/24 season where we owed our 1st to SAS. The anti-tank contingent has repeatedly claimed we would have won more games last season if not for injury. Any tank we have been involved in was forced upon us and not by design.

Unless you see someone like JKW or CMB taking off how does this team reach the next level? We know what a team with Ingram as its best scorer looks like. We know what type of players IQ/RJ/Poeltl are. Barnes development has flatlined on offense. At some point you can look at the pieces of a team and see what their potential is. None of the current core are going to get us to contender level. I do not believe we need a wait and see approach to predict this team’s ceiling, at least as far as any of our established players go.

[ciueli]

Bill is just a fan, not some high level basketball thinker like a Lowe, and has always been. So just remember that before getting too worked up. His takes aren't anything to take too seriously. At least any more than what you'd read from fans on here, reddit, or elsewhere.

Yup, that's all it is. I'm a big Simmons guy, even with this weird, inexplicable hate he's always had for the Raptors lol. But he is not to be taken seriously. He and Russillo often joke about how Raptors fans are going to attack them online after a hot take, but that is exactly what they want. Simmons is arguably the godfather of sports podcasting, he knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to clicks and engagements.

I don't know if it's that inexplicable, think about what would happen if Bill started ragging on any of Philly, NY, or Brooklyn on his podcast. They are some of the largest U.S. markets and absolutely critical for ratings, he would be pissing off so many of his core fanbase if he consistently said negative things about teams in those markets. But the Raptors... that's the one team he can take a dump on anytime he wants and none of his U.S. listeners will call him on it, probably no advertisers he cares about would even notice because most of his advertising is going to be targeting the U.S. market, Canada is an afterthought.

[Merit]

Nah. Don’t change bill’s mind. Kendrick Perkins will slap some sense into him.

Bill Simmons is a sad Celtics fan. I’ll leave it at that.

This board is such homers that we are now saying Kendrick Perkins is smart just because he said the raptors would make the playoffs? Wild stuff
Even if the Raptors make the playoffs, does it matter? It would only be because the Celtics and Pacers (and probably sixers) are injured. This roster has very little upside.

for clarification, perk said the raptors could be a top 6 seed, not would.

Beyond that, I’m indifferent to both Kendrick Perkins and Bill Simmons. I’ll say this on the record, only one of those two reads like a weasel - and I know for sure which of the two would win in a fight.

As for the Raptors: I’m taking the over but I’m an optimist. You do you. Enjoy cringing at your tv in solidarity with all the other negative folks determined to stay negative.

[ConSarnit]

It feels like most posters here didn’t listen to the podcast. They were talking about 5 teams with the bleakest future in each conference. They weren’t saying we had the 3rd bleakest future in the league.

If the question is “who has the top 5 bleakest futures in the East” then we are in that conversation.

[Merit]

Yup, that's all it is. I'm a big Simmons guy, even with this weird, inexplicable hate he's always had for the Raptors lol. But he is not to be taken seriously. He and Russillo often joke about how Raptors fans are going to attack them online after a hot take, but that is exactly what they want. Simmons is arguably the godfather of sports podcasting, he knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to clicks and engagements.

Yep, been reading Bill's stuff since the page 2 days and he's always been the same. Definitely more entertaining before his Boston teams started winning everything (which in retrospect was 20 years ago now) and in a written format but I can't hate on his success over the past 25 years. I think his platform and influence (people who maybe don't know any better who'd take his word as gospel) obviously plays a part in why there's such vitriol to what he says, but at the end of the day it's really not any different from arguing against what some random Celtics fan/poster thinks. And when taken in that context it makes all the handwringing a little funny.

Spot on. I also followed him since his Page 2 days, then to Grantland and now to The Ringer. I have nothing but admiration for a guy that has amassed a 9-figure net worth doing something the rest of us sports nut degenerates would do for free lol.

Yeah zero hate for winning via being annoying and being in the right place at the right time. Definite irritation for being a fan and pretending to be something more than that. Bill Simmons is no different than any one of us on this board, he just has a massive platform. To that end: with great power comes great responsibility. When people attack me for “being a homer” but are cool with a literal self proclaimed homer giving an overtly homer response since he’s sad his team is going to be tanking… it makes me laugh.

[Merit]

It feels like most posters here didn’t listen to the podcast. They were talking about 5 teams with the bleakest future in each conference. They weren’t saying we had the 3rd bleakest future in the league.

If the question is “who has the top 5 bleakest futures in the East” then we are in that conversation.

Disagree. But hey, at least we agree that Poeltl has value.

I agree that Rogers as a company is trash, but they’ve never failed to spend on their teams. So far it’s looking decent for the Leafs and Jays in that regard. We are early in our return to competitiveness so I am content to stay patient with the process.

[tecumseh18]

This is one of the downsides of tanking – people who never watch the Raptors assume they were actually trying last year and not intentionally losing games in the hopes of drafting Cooper Flagg. Now we gotta listen to this nonsense.

It's funny, for the first third of the season we were all raving about Masai's "ethical tank" - i.e. a series of entertaining losses. Knicks on Dec. 10 which I was there for - one of JaKobe's coming out games) and the OT loss to Celtics come to mind. Then everyone got sick, and the team started losing games by 40 points, and this board got antsy. Then, largely because of a healthy Scottie and Davion Mitchell starting, the defence reversed course and we went on a winning streak. So management traded Davion for basically nothing to get the tank back on track (and give Shead more minutes).

The game that made me most hopeful for the future was on the road against the Warriors in March. Super competitive game, and we had the best of it for the most part. Scottie was unleashed and playing like a superstar. Watching it on League Pass, it was fun hearing the Dubs' commentators rave about him. And they were obviously enjoying calling a tense, close game well into the fourth quarter.

And then ... the Raps pulled all their starters. The commentators were like, "Wait ... what? OK, I guess the Raptors are giving us this game." Clearly they were a bit pissed.

I agreed with the move it at the time, but in retrospect it was bush league, it wasn't ethical, and in terms of karma it obviously didn't help our lottery chances. But yes, we were trying to lose. And next season, when we're not trying to lose, and have a healthy BI in the line-up, we're gonna be a pretty good team. Suck on that, Bill!

[Potential]

Bill simmons is still a thing? Who the hell even listens to what he has to say on his audio show

[arbsn]

It's really hard to argue against the fact that the Raptors are dog water and have been managed terribly by Masai and Co the last 3-4 years.

Trading multiple first round picks for win now players when we should be in asset-accumulation mode. Waiting til last minute to trade OG and Pascal for poor value.

Poeltl and Ingram trades are inexcusable. Ingram and Quickley contracts are some of the worst in the league.

If we played our hand right and got cap space, we can leverage cap space for more picks by bringing on dead salary, or go after players on cheaper deals - just look at Giddey, Turner, Thomas, Kuminga, Aldama, etc.. All guys we could've had on good value deals.

Also, how do we not get in the mix for Cam Whitmore??

What good moves have the Raps organization made in the last 4 years? I cant think of one "GOOD" move since drafting Scottie and it turns out that Suggs would've been close to as good.

[tecumseh18]

It's really hard to argue against the fact that the Raptors are dog water and have been managed terribly by Masai and Co the last 3-4 years.

....

It's only "hard to argue" with this because I've got deadlines, and this stuff has been litigated to death.

Suffice it to say I disagree with you, sir.

[Jadoogar]

This board is such homers that we are now saying Kendrick Perkins is smart just because he said the raptors would make the playoffs? Wild stuff
Even if the Raptors make the playoffs, does it matter? It would only be because the Celtics and Pacers (and probably sixers) are injured. This roster has very little upside.

for clarification, perk said the raptors could be a top 6 seed, not would.

Beyond that, I’m indifferent to both Kendrick Perkins and Bill Simmons. I’ll say this on the record, only one of those two reads like a weasel - and I know for sure which of the two would win in a fight.

totally, this is what matters to adults.

[DG88]

I guess it’s how you define bleak. I’d say it’s somewhat bleak in the sense that the FO seems set on building a 45 win team year after year. There is nothing wrong with 45 wins but at some point we have to ask ourselves how do we go from 45 to 55 wins? I don’t really see the upside of this current team. Barnes progress has stalled. Ingram is a borderline all-star. We can talk about our ability to reset but our current method of “reset” has been to acquire guys like IQ and RJ, who aren’t exactly high ceiling guys. Then we’ve doubled down on Poeltl (a fine player) who is not a great fit with Barnes or our recent lotto pick (CMB). It seems like we’re never going to full on tank as a rebuild method.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable if we wake up 4 years from now and we’re still in the same spot we are now. We currently lack any high end upside and the guy who was supposed to help us get our next star because of how well respected around the league he was (Masai) is no longer here.

Are we in the worst spot? Absolutely not. We can pivot but the pivots haven’t exactly engulfed us in upside (OG and Siakam for Ingram, IQ and RJ seems like a very lateral move at the moment). The upside isn’t all that high at the moment. I don’t Simmons and Russilo’s opinions are that controversial outside of Raptors homerdom.

Here's the last 5 years:
20/21: 27-45 (Tampa Tank)
21/22: 48-34
22/23: 41-41
23/24: 25-57
24/25: 30-52

The only time we were building a team with a "45" win ceiling were post Tampa trying to develop and be competitive. After that we've essentially been tanking for 2 years and acquiring young pieces and young vet talent along the way. It's only going into this season that we're trying to see results in the W column. This team hasn't been healthy in 2 years and we haven't see what BI looks like in the lineup. During the DeRozan and Lowry years we didn't know how we'd become a 50+ win team, but through internal growth and talent acquisition we got there. Let this thing breathe and see.

22/23: traded for Poeltl (win-now move)

22/23 off season: re-signed Poeltl, signed Schroder. We were clearly trying to win

23/24: started off trying to win. Traded OG for RJ and IQ which was clearly not a tank driven move

Our “tanking” has 100% been driven because of injury or just plain lack of ability. We have not made clear tear it down type moves. If we have been tanking for 2 years we’ve been doing the worst job of it. Two tanking years where we would have ended up with the 8th and 9th picks. We were very clearly not tanking to begin the 23/24 season where we owed our 1st to SAS. The anti-tank contingent has repeatedly claimed we would have won more games last season if not for injury. Any tank we have been involved in was forced upon us and not by design.

Unless you see someone like JKW or CMB taking off how does this team reach the next level? We know what a team with Ingram as its best scorer looks like. We know what type of players IQ/RJ/Poeltl are. Barnes development has flatlined on offense. At some point you can look at the pieces of a team and see what their potential is. None of the current core are going to get us to contender level. I do not believe we need a wait and see approach to predict this team’s ceiling, at least as far as any of our established players go.

So the season we traded for Poeltl, which I already said was one of the seasons we were trying to be competitive and develop. After trading for Poeltl are you just going to let him walk for nothing? Once Pascal and OG we're traded yes we were tanking. Players were not rushed back from injury or sat games. It was all about development for the past 2 seasons not Playoffs or even Play-In.

Reaching the next level will take internal growth and talent acquisition to get to the next level. The landscape of the NBA is different now than it was during the Stern era. 50-60 wins doesn't guarantee Conference Finals or NBA Finals. We've seen that over these last 5 years, primarily in the East. I think we eventually get there but moves will have to be made for that to happen.

[Yeezus_]

These conversations about five years out are just for content. No one knows whats happening 5 years from now. Even one year out has uncertainty.

[Psubs]

These conversations about five years out are just for content. No one knows whats happening 5 years from now. Even one year out has uncertainty.

Ya, like the Pacers started the year like 10-20 and got hot and had a crazy run to the Finals and now Haliburton is out for the year and Turner leaves to get paid and replaced with Jay Huff. Now they might be back to being a .500 team.

[Merit]

for clarification, perk said the raptors could be a top 6 seed, not would.

Beyond that, I’m indifferent to both Kendrick Perkins and Bill Simmons. I’ll say this on the record, only one of those two reads like a weasel - and I know for sure which of the two would win in a fight.

totally, this is what matters to adults.

You’re 2 for 2 in selecting the less relevant point and emphasizing it. Let’s try for 3 for 3.

I am indifferent to Bill Simmons’ perspective. I never watch or listen to his shows unless someone on here shares something he said.

I believe the raptors future is solid, especially if the front office structure maintains its consistency.

Instead of stoopping to your level and attacking your person like you just did - I’ll rephrase my point once again. I don’t need to reply to Bill Simmons because he has enough haters that want to kick his ass, Kendrick Perkins in particular.

[LoveMyRaps]

Going by the comments, I have to assume most here don’t listen to Simmons and Russillo regularly.

I’ve been reading Simmons since Page 2 and listen to Simmons and Russillo pods regularly; Simmons out of habit and Russillo because he has the best pod out there - 2nd now after Lowe.

Simmons doesn’t like the Raptors. He thinks Scottie’s contract is one of the worst in the league. He’s also extremely petty and the Perkins stuff is going to get him dug in.

Russillo hates Raptors fans because of what happened after he talked **** about Lowry. He’s made it clear that he will never forgive Raptors fans.

I will save you all the trouble with bumping this thread when over/unders come out - they will have us as one of their locks for the under.

Curious what he said about Lowry? Just recently started listening to bill and Russillo and these recent podcasts they had I could clearly see this werid agenda he has against our team. I can see why raptors fan attack him.

He's a Lowry hater (ironic given CP3 is one of his favorite players) and said he doesn't deserve to get into the hall of fame but will anyways - it was your regular US media take. Raptors fans on social media did their usual online bullying but then took it too far and brought his family and nieces into it, which got really bad and progressed to downright awful:

Read on Twitter

When this happened, Russillo said he'll never forgive Toronto, that he'll hold the entire fanbase accountable, and has since found every opportunity to **** on the Raptors and rub it in our face. I will say, when Bill said Scottie was like the 50th best player in the league, even Russillo couldn't go along with that one.

Our fanbase in particular is downright nasty online - it's beyond any other fanbase in the league. Here is more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/itdypm/shame_on_raptors_fans/

Our fanbase on social media is extremely toxic. It's mostly young fans that started rooting for this team after the 2019 title run. They're clueless individuals.