Around the NBA (Part Three)

[FrenchMinnyFan]

If we can get Beal at the minimum vet I will go for it. He can share min from Mike Rob and bring some good offense and passing. And in case Rob does not improve enough or Mike not back to his level we are safe. Could be an option even if I still think Rob/Mike will be a good team at PG. I’m a bit more concerned if Rudy goes down.

[minimus]

Powell to Heat, Collins to Clippers, Slo-Mo and K Love to Jazz along with cap space and a 2nd round pick.
That looks like a win/win/win trade. Collins was a backup plan if Randle/Naz left in free agency.
Telegraphing that Beal is going to sign with the Clippers when he gets bought out?

Maybe if Slo-Mo gets bought out he would come back here for the minimum and Finch would have his security blanket back.
Would take TJ's minutes though.
Has only one guaranteed year left.

Or you play Slo-Mo as undersized bigman to backup Rudy/Reid?

Seems like the excellent roster construction we so badly craved last season. Especially now that NAW is gone.

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

[minimus]

I remember Brice Sensabaugh killing us in regular season

Watch on YouTube

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Actually if the Jazz waived Slomo and Love, i will go for Love. Can back-up Rudy until Joan and Rocco get ready. At least for 1 year.

[minimus]

Actually if the Jazz waived Slomo and Love, i will go for Love. Can back-up Rudy until Joan and Rocco get ready. At least for 1 year.

You might have missed it, but Love hated to be here in MIN. Although I dont know whether Kyle Anderson liked to be here

[winforlose]

Or you play Slo-Mo as undersized bigman to backup Rudy/Reid?

Seems like the excellent roster construction we so badly craved last season. Especially now that NAW is gone.

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

[minimus]

Seems like the excellent roster construction we so badly craved last season. Especially now that NAW is gone.

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

It is irrelevant if he comes here after buyout as vetmin player.

[winforlose]

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

It is irrelevant if he comes here after buyout as vetmin player.

Basic math

1. Ant
2. Rudy
3. Randle
4. Jaden
5. Naz
6. DDV
7. Mike
8. Dilly
9. TSJ
10. Miller
11. Jingles
12. Clark
13. Joan

We have 15 spots and 3 two ways. Given the tax implications we likely won’t use spot 15. If we have Rocco and J Edwards as two ways, that leaves one roster spot and one two way for PG help. You want spot 14 to go to Kyle Anderson. Enough said.

[BlacJacMac]

Seems like the excellent roster construction we so badly craved last season. Especially now that NAW is gone.

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

[winforlose]

Never heard about a guy named Slo-Mo who can guard multiple positions in defense and be facilitator in offense?

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

[BlacJacMac]

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

[winforlose]

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

The Phoenix Suns last year. They used Okogie to increase salary where we dumped KAT to decrease it. The difference is the Suns were poorly balanced and offensive focused, we were defensive focused and in need of a PG.

[BlacJacMac]

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

The Phoenix Suns last year. They used Okogie to increase salary where we dumped KAT to decrease it. The difference is the Suns were poorly balanced and offensive focused, we were defensive focused and in need of a PG.

So they did the exact same thing we did last year?

And how many teams are repeat 2nd apron teams like you demand us to be?

[Domejandro]

I remember the Anderson/Gobert minutes. I remember wanting Kyle off the team. I remember being thrilled when he was (and pissed we did a sign and trade instead of a new contract, wait the minimum period of time, and trade to expand salary. Back when I had hope ownership was actually trying to build a super spender.) Kyle coming back plus Finch’s obvious character flaws of ignoring clear evidence and playing favorites (literally in the cases of Anderson and Garza,) means we lose more games and have close to no chance of winning a chip. So personally I say let Kyle go anywhere else or trade Rudy ASAP and only play Kyle with shooters.

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

For what it is worth (even as a Lore/Rodriguez skeptic), the Second Apron has a few really nasty quirks for repeater teams which make it worth ducking, if possible. Beyond the general stuff like losing all TPE's, not having any MLE, no trading cash or long-term picks, etc., teams who are in the Second Apron 3-out-of-5 years automatically have their pick seven years in the future moved to the end of the First Round. This means if Minnesota was a super spender this year, they wouldn't be able to enter the Second Apron in any of the three following years, or their pick seven years in the future would be automatically moved to #30. That is a pretty significant cost; it nukes a potential asset and leaves teams super vulnerable during that season.

It sucks, but the Second Apron makes expensive team building unviable without having to take on a MASSIVE penalty.

[winforlose]

We were in the 2nd apron last year. We're going to be right up against it this year.

Give me an example of a "super spender".

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

For what it is worth (even as a Lore/Rodriguez skeptic), the Second Apron has a few really nasty quirks for repeater teams which make it worth ducking, if possible. Beyond the general stuff like losing all TPE's, not having any MLE, no trading cash or long-term picks, etc., teams who are in the Second Apron 3-out-of-5 years automatically have their pick seven years in the future moved to the end of the First Round. This means if Minnesota was a super spender this year, they wouldn't be able to enter the Second Apron in any of the three following years, or their pick seven years in the future would be automatically moved to #30. That's a pretty brutal cost, it nukes a potential asset and leaves teams super vulnerable during that season.

It sucks, but the Second Apron makes expensive team building unviable without having to take on a MASSIVE penalty.

Agreed, but also remember that KAT did not need to be moved last year, much less salary dumped for DDV and Randle. Our strongest positions were SG and PF with Ant and Naz being core players. Losing KAT lost our backup C (a major wound last year,) and Dilly was not physically or mentally ready for the role we demanded of him. If you cannot get a good return on KAT, keep him another 3-5 months and try again. If still nothing, trade him this offseason. Also we could have turned Kyle into a MLE and had another legit PG and played Dilly in Iowa. I still think that was the difference between a WCF and winning the chip last year. With KAT we win the series and beyond.

[KGdaBom]

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

The Phoenix Suns last year. They used Okogie to increase salary where we dumped KAT to decrease it. The difference is the Suns were poorly balanced and offensive focused, we were defensive focused and in need of a PG.

We signed Randle and Naz to big money extensions. We could have easily let one of them walk. We are big spenders.

[KGdaBom]

A super spender in this case is what happens when you keep KAT, keep NAW, and operate at a serious loss. The Warriors and Clippers for years tried to buy championships, and in 2022 it happened. The way you tell is that the team frequently seeks to increase spending despite the tax to maximize efficiency.

The above being true, once we salary dumped KAT, staying in the 2nd apron didn’t make sense, especially with an unbalanced roster. Trading KAT for a max contract PG and backup C was what needed to happen, instead we got DDV and Randle.

For what it is worth (even as a Lore/Rodriguez skeptic), the Second Apron has a few really nasty quirks for repeater teams which make it worth ducking, if possible. Beyond the general stuff like losing all TPE's, not having any MLE, no trading cash or long-term picks, etc., teams who are in the Second Apron 3-out-of-5 years automatically have their pick seven years in the future moved to the end of the First Round. This means if Minnesota was a super spender this year, they wouldn't be able to enter the Second Apron in any of the three following years, or their pick seven years in the future would be automatically moved to #30. That's a pretty brutal cost, it nukes a potential asset and leaves teams super vulnerable during that season.

It sucks, but the Second Apron makes expensive team building unviable without having to take on a MASSIVE penalty.

Agreed, but also remember that KAT did not need to be moved last year, much less salary dumped for DDV and Randle. Our strongest positions were SG and PF with Ant and Naz being core players. Losing KAT lost our backup C (a major wound last year,) and Dilly was not physically or mentally ready for the role we demanded of him. If you cannot get a good return on KAT, keep him another 3-5 months and try again. If still nothing, trade him this offseason. Also we could have turned Kyle into a MLE and had another legit PG and played Dilly in Iowa. I still think that was the difference between a WCF and winning the chip last year. With KAT we win the series and beyond.

That is a huge, HUGE leap of faith. Randle was an all star and DDV was a 6th MotY candidate. Not this horrible return for KAT that you are presenting.

[winforlose]

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

The Phoenix Suns last year. They used Okogie to increase salary where we dumped KAT to decrease it. The difference is the Suns were poorly balanced and offensive focused, we were defensive focused and in need of a PG.

So they did the exact same thing we did last year?

And how many teams are repeat 2nd apron teams like you demand us to be?

I will repeat it for you one more time, then you can go back and look up what I was saying last year to know I am have always been consistent. We didn’t make the Gobert trade for Ant, we did it for KAT. To maximize the KAT window and try to speed up the development of Ant. You don’t add all that salary before the CBA (especially because it was well known and talked about the owners were pissed about super spenders,) if you don’t plan to be one yourself. The problem with the last offseason is we were going to be in the 2nd apron anyway and we dumped salary without ducking below. It was the worst of both worlds. I didn’t want KAT traded for anything less than a legit return, instead we did it for DDV, an expiring Randle, and a first unlikely to convey (thank god it did.) We could have used Kyle to get another PG (turn him into an MLE, then move him,) and then worried about trading salary away the following year (again teams can do so without breaking apart and end up near but not in the 2nd apron.) It was mishandled last year. The result was an unbalanced roster which could not win the chip. This year we have the same problem, again because we salary dumped our best trade chip for the wrong *****g return.

[winforlose]

You're comparing apples with motorcycles.

Now give me an example of a "super spender" under the current CBA.

The Phoenix Suns last year. They used Okogie to increase salary where we dumped KAT to decrease it. The difference is the Suns were poorly balanced and offensive focused, we were defensive focused and in need of a PG.

We signed Randle and Naz to big money extensions. We could have easily let one of them walk. We are big spenders.

Again you are having the wrong conversation. It isn’t about this year. Last year we dumped KAT to save ownership money and stay above the 2nd apron line. We cut salary to reduce the tax bill instead of adding it in the face of an insanely high bill.

[Klomp]

I will repeat it for you one more time, then you can go back and look up what I was saying last year to know I am have always been consistent. You don’t make the Gobert trade for Ant, you did for KAT. To maximize the KAT window and try to speed up the development of Ant.

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.