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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

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How many wins do you expect the Suns to have this season?

61+
3
4%
56-60
0
No votes
51-55
0
No votes
46-50
4
5%
41-45
14
19%
36-40
13
17%
31-35
22
29%
26-30
14
19%
25 or under
5
7%
 
Total votes: 75

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1161 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:31 am

BobbieL wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Only one player on the team had any leverage. Even Durant and Booker didn't have the leverage Beal had. And yet, Ishbia made moves that have put him in a corner. Like Mark Williams - he didn't need to trade for Mark Williams on draft night - he could have waited.

LI made the comparison that the difference in value between a max player and the MLE is much greater than the vet minimum player and the MLE. But people just want a dopamine hit, "we signed a player!!!!"

And again, when you do the math, that TPMLE player actually costs $24m and not $5m because of the Beal numbers.


Mark Williams trade didn't put them in a corner. Deadline for the team option on Vasilije Micic was June 29, four days after the draft. The Suns could have waited exactly four days to make the Williams trade but didn't. However, Beal wasn't taking a buyout until the free agency period started which was on June 30th. Williams and Beal deals were mutually exclusive. Timing was everything in this scenario.

The Suns improved the team's center position which was the correct move regardless of the Beal situation.


If Ishbia had declined the option on Micic, released Richards and Martin - would the Suns be closer to clearing the aprons than they are today?

Ishbia took the decisions he had 100% control over and gave those decisions to Bradley Beal.

I understand the need for the Center - but I personally think getting below apron levels would have been step 1 this offseason. This is where not having an owner cosplaying as GM is actually hurting Ishbia's goal of winning an NBA title. If Bob Myers wanted the job he should have given him the job and got the F out of the way


I don't think declining Richards, Martin, and Micic plus not bringing on Williams would get the Suns under the 2nd apron. Williams and Richards are $11m combined and you still have to take on dollars for their replacements. Without those guys the Suns would be a few million over the second apron instead of almost $12M ... $3m or $12m is still over the 2nd apron. You should go check the math. So to get under the apron the Suns would need to move O'Neale. With your suggestion the Suns would have another rookie (29th pick given up for Williams) and scraping the FA barrel bottom for a veteran center or two. They would lack legit players in Williams & Richards. They would still be over the second apron. They would still have the Beal problem.

Waiting for Beal to make up his mind simply would hurt the Suns free agency/trade options. They would be watching a dude with his thumb up his azz waiting for his wife to tell him what to do.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1162 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:38 am

BobbieL wrote:
Puff wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
If Ishbia had declined the option on Micic, released Richards and Martin - would the Suns be closer to clearing the aprons than they are today?

Ishbia took the decisions he had 100% control over and gave those decisions to Bradley Beal.

I understand the need for the Center - but I personally think getting below apron levels would have been step 1 this offseason. This is where not having an owner cosplaying as GM is actually hurting Ishbia's goal of winning an NBA title. If Bob Myers wanted the job he should have given him the job and got the F out of the way


You guys just do not get it.

Beal was gone long before this past season ended. He was a bad fit and was always injured along with needing his salary off the payroll. He is and has been untradeable with his salary and NTC. Even if we would have traded him it would have been for salaries that we did not want. The best solution for the upcoming season was and is still waive and stretch. Surely it could hurt us down the road, but our big spender owner will pay to go over the 2nd apron again, hopefully not for a guy that always seems to have some sort of injury. He just sits on the bench with no apparent connection to the team. Gambo was saying it months before the end of the season.

We had an opportunity to get Williams, and we went for it. We did not think Maluach would be there at 10 and that Rasheed would be there at 29.

I am really excited to watch Williams, Maluach, Rasheed, Green, Koby, Dunn, Oso and maybe Richards, along with any other additions we might make. I repeat, I am excited about the next season and hopefully I do not have to watch Bradley Beal play another minute for the Phoenix Suns. I wish him good luck with whichever team he chooses as long as it is not us.



And if Beal doesn't take the buyout - and the Suns are over the second apron, they cannot combine players in trades, the 2032 FRP will drop to the end of the first round - you would be good with that ?

Mat Ishbia doesn't control whether Beal takes the buyout. Personally, I would have had my ducks in a row to make sure I am under every apron level that I want to achieve before taking on salary. Ishbia took on salary when he needed to move $25+m


If you were Beal at 32 and could sign one last contract before you career is over would you do that? Beal not taking the buyout is a risk for him. He could sit on the shelf for two seasons ... not playing, not around the team, not staying in shape, not doing the thing he loves, not relevant. If he was lucky he could get a vet min contract in 27/28.

The Suns can get under the 2nd apron by moving Brooks or Allen at any time between now and the trade deadline.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1163 » by sunsbum » Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:09 am

Send him home until next year and we can revisit his options. Grow some balls, nobody likes Ishbia anyways. Like who cares. If he can control where he goes with his no trade clause we can control what he does on this team and it shouldn’t even be questioned. Beal can’t have his cake and it it too.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1164 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:48 am

Good read. It was a stupid contract extension for an overrated player and the rest of the league knows it!

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-devin-bookers-two-year-145-million-extension-is-a-desperate-overpay-from-a-rudderless-suns-franchise/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky&Echobox=1752197800

And this right here proves he’s the most overrated Suns player. He gets free passes for being overrated in Phx.

Most advanced metrics tell the same story. He has never finished in the top 15 in the NBA in VORP, Win Shares per 48 minutes or Box Plus-Minus. Last season, he ranked 72nd, 80th and 90th in those metrics, respectively. If you're looking for a more basic statistic, he's primarily a scorer who has never ranked in the top five in the NBA in points per game. His career-best true shooting season of 61.8% is below Stephen Curry's career average of 62.5% and is only a shade above James Harden's 60.8% career mark.


Wild part of more people in Arizona know who Luis Gonzalez is than they know who Devin Booker is in AZ. (If you live in AZ you know exactly what I mean).

50% of our Salary is about to be locked up on a borderline star and a ghost. Just inexcusable!
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1165 » by Frank Lee » Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:52 am

sunsbum wrote:Send him home until next year and we can revisit his options. Grow some balls, nobody likes Ishbia anyways. Like who cares. If he can control where he goes with his no trade clause we can control what he does on this team and it shouldn’t even be questioned. Beal can’t have his cake and it it too.


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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1166 » by Frank Lee » Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:57 am

Book getting a hefty bag. Can he carry it?

Have we seen his ceiling? Still room to improve me thinks… he’s a gym rat at least. It’s put up shut up time.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1167 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:11 am

Frank Lee wrote:Book getting a hefty bag. Can he carry it?

Have we seen his ceiling? Still room to improve me thinks… he’s a gym rat at least. It’s put up shut up time.


It will be on the defensive end or nowhere.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1168 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:21 am

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1169 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:23 am

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1170 » by Saberestar » Fri Jul 11, 2025 5:16 am

bigfoot wrote:

“There’s just some pretty regular speed bumps that won’t deter anything.”

So it's just a matter of days. Beal will be out of the team after a buyout.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1171 » by garrick » Fri Jul 11, 2025 5:38 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:Good read. It was a stupid contract extension for an overrated player and the rest of the league knows it!

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-devin-bookers-two-year-145-million-extension-is-a-desperate-overpay-from-a-rudderless-suns-franchise/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky&Echobox=1752197800

And this right here proves he’s the most overrated Suns player. He gets free passes for being overrated in Phx.

Most advanced metrics tell the same story. He has never finished in the top 15 in the NBA in VORP, Win Shares per 48 minutes or Box Plus-Minus. Last season, he ranked 72nd, 80th and 90th in those metrics, respectively. If you're looking for a more basic statistic, he's primarily a scorer who has never ranked in the top five in the NBA in points per game. His career-best true shooting season of 61.8% is below Stephen Curry's career average of 62.5% and is only a shade above James Harden's 60.8% career mark.


Wild part of more people in Arizona know who Luis Gonzalez is than they know who Devin Booker is in AZ. (If you live in AZ you know exactly what I mean).

50% of our Salary is about to be locked up on a borderline star and a ghost. Just inexcusable!


It's rarely easy to match money on players at the top of the market. The current CBA makes it harder. If the Suns ever do need to trade Booker, the acquiring team will likely have to use good salary to do it, and therefore offer less asset compensation in the deal. More likely, they'll try to send bad money. Overall, this contract probably lowers Booker's trade value moving forward.


I see some statements saying the extension makes Booker more tradeable, I have to disagree and say that it will make teams much more hesitant to take on a longer and much more expensive contract.

Nobody wants an overpaid aging superstar and will want to pay them 75M per season, this is why Harden kept getting short term deals because no team wanted to have him on his declining performance on a 4 year deal.

I would say even as a Harden hater that Harden has had a much better career arc than Booker so far and his peak was MVP level worthy, Book has never once reached Harden's peak so it boggles the mind that we would agree to an extension to lock him in for the next 5 years on a record setting amount.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1172 » by Calvin Klein » Fri Jul 11, 2025 10:56 am

bigfoot wrote:



stopped watching these guys after the 23 season. Are they still sucking up to ownership?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1173 » by ChuckS » Fri Jul 11, 2025 11:32 am

garrick wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:Good read. It was a stupid contract extension for an overrated player and the rest of the league knows it!

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-devin-bookers-two-year-145-million-extension-is-a-desperate-overpay-from-a-rudderless-suns-franchise/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky&Echobox=1752197800

And this right here proves he’s the most overrated Suns player. He gets free passes for being overrated in Phx.

Most advanced metrics tell the same story. He has never finished in the top 15 in the NBA in VORP, Win Shares per 48 minutes or Box Plus-Minus. Last season, he ranked 72nd, 80th and 90th in those metrics, respectively. If you're looking for a more basic statistic, he's primarily a scorer who has never ranked in the top five in the NBA in points per game. His career-best true shooting season of 61.8% is below Stephen Curry's career average of 62.5% and is only a shade above James Harden's 60.8% career mark.


Wild part of more people in Arizona know who Luis Gonzalez is than they know who Devin Booker is in AZ. (If you live in AZ you know exactly what I mean).

50% of our Salary is about to be locked up on a borderline star and a ghost. Just inexcusable!


It's rarely easy to match money on players at the top of the market. The current CBA makes it harder. If the Suns ever do need to trade Booker, the acquiring team will likely have to use good salary to do it, and therefore offer less asset compensation in the deal. More likely, they'll try to send bad money. Overall, this contract probably lowers Booker's trade value moving forward.


I see some statements saying the extension makes Booker more tradeable, I have to disagree and say that it will make teams much more hesitant to take on a longer and much more expensive contract.

Nobody wants an overpaid aging superstar and will want to pay them 75M per season, this is why Harden kept getting short term deals because no team wanted to have him on his declining performance on a 4 year deal.

would say even as a Harden hater that Harden has had a much better career arc than Booker so far and his peak was MVP level worthy, Book has never once reached Harden's peak so it boggles the mind that we would agree to an extension to lock him in for the next 5 years on a record setting amount.


You make some great points, and particularly the fact that there is a difference in the excellence of players who qualify for the max. But there seems to be a damned if you do or don't when it comes to such agreements. I'm not comparing the players, but look at what the Mavs have endured by not wanting to pay, and trading, Luka. I understand owners, whether right or wrong in any particular case, making different decisions.

My disagreement is with what I think is the prevailing fan opinion of preferring young draftees, or even just draft picks, and wanting to dump others actually in their prime. It makes less sense to me when depending on late draft picks, less likely to achieve greatness or help early. I believe the OKC model is an aberration and would not be possible without the greatness of SGA, with so great and early a prime.

Regarding Booker, my Google search suggests the consensus is that an NBA players prime is between 27 and 31, with a gradual decline beginning at age 32. Book is now 28. A large contract now will end while he is theoretically still in his prime. Unfortunately the CBA doesn't differentiate because of degree of excellence. Owners are sometimes forced to pay or lose an exceptional player. That is rarely an easy decision, and is hard for me to fault.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1174 » by BobbieL » Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:12 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:Good read. It was a stupid contract extension for an overrated player and the rest of the league knows it!

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-devin-bookers-two-year-145-million-extension-is-a-desperate-overpay-from-a-rudderless-suns-franchise/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky&Echobox=1752197800

And this right here proves he’s the most overrated Suns player. He gets free passes for being overrated in Phx.

Most advanced metrics tell the same story. He has never finished in the top 15 in the NBA in VORP, Win Shares per 48 minutes or Box Plus-Minus. Last season, he ranked 72nd, 80th and 90th in those metrics, respectively. If you're looking for a more basic statistic, he's primarily a scorer who has never ranked in the top five in the NBA in points per game. His career-best true shooting season of 61.8% is below Stephen Curry's career average of 62.5% and is only a shade above James Harden's 60.8% career mark.


Wild part of more people in Arizona know who Luis Gonzalez is than they know who Devin Booker is in AZ. (If you live in AZ you know exactly what I mean).

50% of our Salary is about to be locked up on a borderline star and a ghost. Just inexcusable!


Preaching. Like any other Ishbia decision - it seems much more emotional not analytical and strategic

Durant - emotional
Beal - emotional
Booker - emotional. Booker stans love him, the city loves him, he wants to be here. (All nonsense and BS if you are trying to win )
Mark Williams - emotional. Oh boy, we traded for a player!!! (Where I think you figure out the apron levels, Beal first before taking on salary)

I would have waited one year to see if Booker can prove he can lead a team
I looked at some of Bookers metrics - he is a slightly better DeMar DeRozan - who is paying DeMar 75m?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1175 » by sunsbum » Fri Jul 11, 2025 1:51 pm

Maybe……….ishbia has every intention in the world to keep Booker until the last day of his contract. Yall act like he’s going to be a fossil. Take a look at James Hardens 29 - 32 seasons.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1176 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:17 pm

Read on Twitter


Interesting twitter thread by the Suns.

Showing summer league photos of Book, Green, Brooks, Williams, Allen, O'Neale, Gillispie, and Richards. Nothing for Beal. Seems like the front office is happy with their vet lineup for now.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1177 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:30 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Read on Twitter


Interesting twitter thread by the Suns.

Showing summer league photos of Book, Green, Brooks, Williams, Allen, O'Neale, Gillispie, and Richards. Nothing for Beal. Seems like the front office is happy with their vet lineup for now.

Oh for sure. 35 wins with this “vet lineup” is something to be happy about.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1178 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:32 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:Good read. It was a stupid contract extension for an overrated player and the rest of the league knows it!

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-devin-bookers-two-year-145-million-extension-is-a-desperate-overpay-from-a-rudderless-suns-franchise/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky&Echobox=1752197800

And this right here proves he’s the most overrated Suns player. He gets free passes for being overrated in Phx.

Most advanced metrics tell the same story. He has never finished in the top 15 in the NBA in VORP, Win Shares per 48 minutes or Box Plus-Minus. Last season, he ranked 72nd, 80th and 90th in those metrics, respectively. If you're looking for a more basic statistic, he's primarily a scorer who has never ranked in the top five in the NBA in points per game. His career-best true shooting season of 61.8% is below Stephen Curry's career average of 62.5% and is only a shade above James Harden's 60.8% career mark.


Wild part of more people in Arizona know who Luis Gonzalez is than they know who Devin Booker is in AZ. (If you live in AZ you know exactly what I mean).

50% of our Salary is about to be locked up on a borderline star and a ghost. Just inexcusable!


Preaching. Like any other Ishbia decision - it seems much more emotional not analytical and strategic

Durant - emotional
Beal - emotional
Booker - emotional. Booker stans love him, the city loves him, he wants to be here. (All nonsense and BS if you are trying to win )
Mark Williams - emotional. Oh boy, we traded for a player!!! (Where I think you figure out the apron levels, Beal first before taking on salary)

I would have waited one year to see if Booker can prove he can lead a team
I looked at some of Bookers metrics - he is a slightly better DeMar DeRozan - who is paying DeMar 75m?



Not sure about your crusade against Williams, if he stays healthy there's a good chance hes their second best player behind Booker.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1179 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:46 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Read on Twitter


Interesting twitter thread by the Suns.

Showing summer league photos of Book, Green, Brooks, Williams, Allen, O'Neale, Gillispie, and Richards. Nothing for Beal. Seems like the front office is happy with their vet lineup for now.

Oh for sure. 35 wins with this “vet lineup” is something to be happy about.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cQuFer7L1qU
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens! 

Post#1180 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:47 pm

I am fine with, and understand, the Booker contract. He's committing to staying here through rough, uncompetitive years. He's been the face of the team for years, avoided controversy, stayed committed to the team and the City throughout. He's the man in Phoenix.

We would never be able to land a guy like this in free agency. So what if his contract is an albatross? We can't tank. Give the man his flowers. At least fans can cheer for him, even if the team isn't very much worth celebrating.

When we're ready to compete - who knows? Maybe then he'll be willing to take a pay cut if an opportunity to compete presents itself.

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