RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 3)

[KyRo23]

I gotta respect yall's stick-to-it-iveness... I feel like you 2 have been arguing for months straight, every day

I don't think minds are being changed in this back and forth

[Kawaii Leonard]

I gotta respect yall's stick-to-it-iveness... I feel like you 2 have been arguing for months straight, every day

I don't think minds are being changed in this back and forth

When an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Based on this thread, from now on, I am forever skeptical of Jordan takes on this board and will always question if a poster was even born early enough to watch him play. Goes both ways on whether they think goat or no goat

[bledredwine]

I gotta respect yall's stick-to-it-iveness... I feel like you 2 have been arguing for months straight, every day

I don't think minds are being changed in this back and forth

When an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Based on this thread, from now on, I am forever skeptical of Jordan takes on this board and will always question if a poster was even born early enough to watch him play. Goes both ways on whether they think goat or no goat

Lebron fans are the new Kobe fans from back in the day,
we are all skeptical of them primarily.

You can be skeptical of the world's takes on Jordan as well, since it's not just realgm that believes this.

Works both ways, once again. Objectively speaking, it's a poor debate. We've already established that by
going through pretty much all of the categories and it's a landslide, sorry to say. Lebron is left
with excuses and longevity, as I've stated probably 50 times by now.

[michaelm]

I gotta respect yall's stick-to-it-iveness... I feel like you 2 have been arguing for months straight, every day

I don't think minds are being changed in this back and forth

When an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Based on this thread, from now on, I am forever skeptical of Jordan takes on this board and will always question if a poster was even born early enough to watch him play. Goes both ways on whether they think goat or no goat

It is vaguely possible others are also sceptical about your supposed positions, if you can be so affected by one Jordan fan, the arguments of whom have not really been countered if not numbers he has quoted on occasion, but have no problem with Scranton Bulls an out an out LeBron partisan. He is entitled to be so of course, although not imo while claiming to be unbiased and to have totally evidence based stances himself, and doubt exists that he is an actual Bulls fan.

[EmpireFalls]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

[DOT]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

[bledredwine]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

That take doesn’t sound biased at all “old dudes”, yeah, who share the same opinion as the world on this matter.

[michaelm]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Yes only other people are biased, and argumentum ad hominem along with cod psychology are always definitive in a discussion.

I am fine with the real answer to Jordan vs LeBron, which is that both were the best players of their respective eras and that no valid comparison is possible across disparate eras. I am also happy to acknowledge how effective LeBron has been, and doubt Jordan could have taken several of LeBron’s lesser teams as far as LeBron took those teams.

It is a matter of opinion rather than nostalgia to have a preference for how the teams of other elite players have played over how LeBron’s teams have played, which for me applies to the Duncan Spurs and the Curry Warriors as well as the Jordan/Phil Jackson Bulls. I will doubtless as a GSW fan have nostalgia in regard to Steph Curry once he does retire, it is not unlikely they will return to the wilderness they previously inhabited, but I believe he is still playing.

I believe it is also not unreasonable to object to attempts to re-jig Jordan’s career by people who didn’t actually observe same.

[Kawaii Leonard]

I gotta respect yall's stick-to-it-iveness... I feel like you 2 have been arguing for months straight, every day

I don't think minds are being changed in this back and forth

When an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Based on this thread, from now on, I am forever skeptical of Jordan takes on this board and will always question if a poster was even born early enough to watch him play. Goes both ways on whether they think goat or no goat

It is vaguely possible others are also sceptical about your supposed positions, if you can be so affected by one Jordan fan, the arguments of whom have not really been countered if not numbers he has quoted on occasion, but have no problem with Scranton Bulls an out an out LeBron partisan. He is entitled to be so of course, although not imo while claiming to be unbiased and to have totally evidence based stances himself and doubt exists that he is an actual Bulls fan.

That one Jordan fan just so happens to be wearing the most tinted glasses in this entire thread. I’d be surprised if he can even see out of them. Just go back a few pages (page 10) with him going on about scoring titles as a hilariously short-sighted angle (which I completely dismantled but he can’t comprehend/refute a simple xy graph about volume), all the while he says questionable things like: “I only like players who play both sides of the court”. He is entitled to his opinion, but many posters have already pointed out his hypocrisy and bias to the point that we are questioning if he even watched the players involved in this topic. And rightfully so.

As for ScrantonBulls and—if you even bothered to read my post—he is literally the other half of the equation in the metaphor I used of the immovable object and the unstoppable force. Keep up man, I was agreeing with KyRo23 up there, that neither will be persuaded—no matter what—and this is no longer discourse but rather a playground fight.

I’ve also interacted with him on one single post and we agreed to disagree and moved on. Would be a whole lot more constructive if some others used that approach too if they’re so hard stuck in their already made up answer to this topic. Notice how I’ve completely ignored the Jordan fan since, because it is a complete waste of energy.

Also no shade, but do you talk irl like how you type? You sound like C-3PO from Star Wars or Vision from Marvel lol. Every time I read your posts, it makes me forget for a second what part of the internet I’m on

[MavsDirk41]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Lmao so thinking Jordan is the goat equals nothing but nostalgia and some how believing in something that never existed? But if you say James is the goat you are just believing in the inevitable? You win the most laughable post of the day pal-o. How about letting people express their thoughts without you getting sad cause it doesn’t align with your beliefs?

[michaelm]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Lmao so thinking Jordan is the goat equals nothing but nostalgia and some how believing in something that never existed? But if you say James is the goat you are just believing in the inevitable? You win the most laughable post of the day pal-o. How about letting people express their thoughts without you getting sad cause it doesn’t align with your beliefs?

Yes I see your rose coloured glasses/nostalgia bias and raise you your recency bias.

[Yank3525]

I believe it is also not unreasonable to object to attempts to re-jig Jordan’s career by people who didn’t actually observe same

Not just rewrite Jordan's career, but also trying to redefine greatness. I mean I get why they do it, but they are so damn shamless about it.

[MavsDirk41]

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Lmao so thinking Jordan is the goat equals nothing but nostalgia and some how believing in something that never existed? But if you say James is the goat you are just believing in the inevitable? You win the most laughable post of the day pal-o. How about letting people express their thoughts without you getting sad cause it doesn’t align with your beliefs?

Yes I see your rose coloured glasses/nostalgia bias and raise you your recency bias.

Nice

[SlimShady83]

LOL

Watch on YouTube

;t=19s

[Gregoire]

Maaan, 84-25 in favor of MJ, undisputed GOAT!

And... I mean... this PC Board "greatest peaks project" is logically to name "greatest freaks project", I would quote some intelligent poster:
"there is a very large difference between expanding the voter pool to increase the depth and volume of enlightening conversations versus recruiting alt accounts that dont participate anywhere else on the site to ballot stuff so that literally one guy (everyone knows who) can gloat about getting the outcome that makes him happy".

[Zadeh]

There is only four players who rides their teams to a championship in every year and never drop. None of them is Jordan or Lebron. Actually if NBA became a fair league nobody put Jordan or LeBron in this conversation.

Half of theirs legacy count on Stern.

By the way that players are Duncan, Magic, Bird and Russell. Never lived a losing seasons, start to finish.

[bledredwine]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Lmao so thinking Jordan is the goat equals nothing but nostalgia and some how believing in something that never existed? But if you say James is the goat you are just believing in the inevitable? You win the most laughable post of the day pal-o. How about letting people express their thoughts without you getting sad cause it doesn’t align with your beliefs?

I find it hilarious that people can make posts like that and not sit, reflect and understand how ridiculous it actually sounds. See the poll.

Yeah, Michael Jordan is all nostalgia
Sorry, who was Lebron’s hero? Who’s the ghost he’s been chasing?

Oh, and that falls into category two: excuses. Look how far one has to reach. It just shows that this debate will vanish soon enough.

[bledredwine]

Id be much more interested to read Jordan vs Russell or Kareem vs LeBron debates tbh. Those seem like possibly fertile ground for something that would be worth our time.

The problem is, this has never been about an actual discussion

It's just a bunch of old dudes who hate change being mad about things changing. No matter what LeBron did, they would never acknowledge him as the GOAT simply because it's not about reality, it's about the Sisyphean task of fighting against time progressing. LeBron vs MJ is just a proxy war for a lot of these people, where LeBron represents the uncomfortable, inevitable future, and MJ represents the nostalgic, comfortable past that really never existed in the way they imagine

Also just trolls, but they're fairly obvious.

Lmao so thinking Jordan is the goat equals nothing but nostalgia and some how believing in something that never existed? But if you say James is the goat you are just believing in the inevitable? You win the most laughable post of the day pal-o. How about letting people express their thoughts without you getting sad cause it doesn’t align with your beliefs?

I find it hilarious that people can make posts like that and not sit, reflect and understand how ridiculous it actually sounds. See the poll.

Yeah, Michael Jordan is all nostalgia

Oh and that falls into category two: excuses

[NbaAllDay]

The delusion in this thread at least makes it a little bit enjoyable.

[ScrantonBulls]

When an immovable object meets an unstoppable force. Based on this thread, from now on, I am forever skeptical of Jordan takes on this board and will always question if a poster was even born early enough to watch him play. Goes both ways on whether they think goat or no goat

It is vaguely possible others are also sceptical about your supposed positions, if you can be so affected by one Jordan fan, the arguments of whom have not really been countered if not numbers he has quoted on occasion, but have no problem with Scranton Bulls an out an out LeBron partisan. He is entitled to be so of course, although not imo while claiming to be unbiased and to have totally evidence based stances himself and doubt exists that he is an actual Bulls fan.

That one Jordan fan just so happens to be wearing the most tinted glasses in this entire thread. I’d be surprised if he can even see out of them. Just go back a few pages (page 10) with him going on about scoring titles as a hilariously short-sighted angle (which I completely dismantled but he can’t comprehend/refute a simple xy graph about volume), all the while he says questionable things like: “I only like players who play both sides of the court”. He is entitled to his opinion, but many posters have already pointed out his hypocrisy and bias to the point that we are questioning if he even watched the players involved in this topic. And rightfully so.

As for ScrantonBulls and—if you even bothered to read my post—he is literally the other half of the equation in the metaphor I used of the immovable object and the unstoppable force. Keep up man, I was agreeing with KyRo23 up there, that neither will be persuaded—no matter what—and this is no longer discourse but rather a playground fight.

I’ve also interacted with him on one single post and we agreed to disagree and moved on. Would be a whole lot more constructive if some others used that approach too if they’re so hard stuck in their already made up answer to this topic. Notice how I’ve completely ignored the Jordan fan since, because it is a complete waste of energy.

Also no shade, but do you talk irl like how you type? You sound like C-3PO from Star Wars or Vision from Marvel lol. Every time I read your posts, it makes me forget for a second what part of the internet I’m on

Thank you sir. Likewise, I appreciate how respectful and in-goos-faith you are when debating/discussing on here. Admittedly, I could do what you suggested and agree to disagree more often.

It's difficult with the low quality and dishonest arguments you see in this thread. bledredwine will make an absurdly homeristic and completely incorrect claim about Jordan, like claiming he beat the Pistons in 1989 or beat the Knicks in 1995 while being underdogs to make the finals both years. Somebody will call him out for being wrong and biased towards Jordan. Then michaelm will respond to that person and say LeBron fans are just as biased and doing the same thing, but his post sounds like it was written using the first version of ChatGPT.

Rinse and repeat.