Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[Klomp]

I dont see MIN succeed with Sexton or Murray. Randle had played under Finch command in NOP, Randle was ASG player, and more importantly offers some positional versatility as slasher, passer and physical player. All three skills helped MIN in playoffs. In some sense Towns - Randle trade gave us minimal continuity. Both Towns and Randle has been elite among bigmen at driving to the rim, while Randle has better AST:TO ratio than Towns when drives to the basket

Neither Sexton nor Murray is a good passer nor decision maker. Both are low efficiency scorers, both are not natural shooters. DJM AAV is 30 (!!!) mil, Sexton AAV is 18 mil. I'd rather have Donte + Rob + Conley instead of DJM, or Donte + Rob instead of Sexton. But that's me.

P.S. Not to mention questionable DJM behaviour off the floor. This alone would give me a strong reason to stay away from him.

And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?

Julius Randle had three seasons with over five assists in New York, with one season where he averaged six assists. This has been Julius Randle’s game for years.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are watching the same sport as us....

[winforlose]

And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?

Julius Randle had three seasons with over five assists in New York, with one season where he averaged six assists. This has been Julius Randle’s game for years.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are watching the same sport as us....

When in doubt, check.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

4.7 to 2.8 is pretty good for a PF, but for a PG, that is a bit different.

[Klomp]

Julius Randle had three seasons with over five assists in New York, with one season where he averaged six assists. This has been Julius Randle’s game for years.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are watching the same sport as us....

When in doubt, check.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

4.7 to 2.8 is pretty good for a PF, but for a PG, that is a bit different.

Last I checked, he has always been a PF?

[winforlose]

Sometimes I wonder if some people are watching the same sport as us....

When in doubt, check.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

4.7 to 2.8 is pretty good for a PF, but for a PG, that is a bit different.

Last I checked, he has always been a PF?

I was responding to the context of the conversation. In this case “ And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?” Which prompted Dom to point out his history, and you to comment and me to respond. Randle playing PF and playing Point Foward are different things.

[Domejandro]

When in doubt, check.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

4.7 to 2.8 is pretty good for a PF, but for a PG, that is a bit different.

Last I checked, he has always been a PF?

I was responding to the context of the conversation. In this case “ And how was Randle at handling pressure while ball handling? Setting up the offense to ensure a good look? Creating looks for other guys? Randle played well, no denying that, but where was this in New York and every other place he played? If Randle can change why not others?” Which prompted Dom to point out his history, and you to comment and me to respond. Randle playing PF and playing Point Foward are different things.

My contention was that Julius Randle did not miraculously change in a Minnesota Timberwolves uniform. I am pretty open as one of the bigger critics of Minnesota's current Point-Guard rotation.

[Norseman79]

My original point was there were multiple "issues" with Randle before he got here and they seemed to be resolved on some levels, why can't that be true for others? In addition, sure Randle can make some passes, but in the playoffs, when he was tightly guarded/heavily pressured it wasn't pretty. Stats don't always tell the full story, just watch a few games against good defense and competitive teams.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Turnover is still our main issue. Mike is great at ball handling but most of the times, ball is in ANT and Randle hands and their ratio is awful . Then we will add Rob who have good playmaking but would have to limit Turnover around the same ratio NAW got. If we reduce the turnover this year, let's say by 20%, we will be on top of the West (1 to 3).
We have huge offensive power with ANT, Randle, DDV, NAZ, one of the top defense in the league ( thanks to Rudy Jaden), don't give too easy buckets to opponent and we will be a real contender.

[minimus]

My original point was there were multiple "issues" with Randle before he got here and they seemed to be resolved on some levels, why can't that be true for others? In addition, sure Randle can make some passes, but in the playoffs, when he was tightly guarded/heavily pressured it wasn't pretty.

No one is denying the turnover issues or the general lack of elite decision-makers. But in today’s NBA, the point guard position is no longer the sole source of playmaking and offensive orchestration. In MIN’s case, Randle and Edwards are the primary ballhandlers — and yes, they get exposed when asked to make top-tier reads under pressure.

But these are two stars with real offensive gravity and something you can build around. The FO is clearly betting on:
- Edwards’ continued growth as a decision-maker
- the chemistry between Ant and Randle
- and the development of rookies like Rob

What I’ve been pushing back on is this idea that bringing in guys like Sexton, DJM, Simons, or Schroder — long-time scorers on losing teams — will suddenly give you high-level passing and leadership. That’s wishful thinking, and frankly it’s how PHO ended up with the Bradley Beal situation.

Randle and his bully-ball approach are absolutely critical for MIN’s success in the West. He created consistent matchup problems vs. both LAL and GSW in the playoffs. Meanwhile, nearly every team in the West got bigger this offseason — MIN simply can’t afford to downsize:

Western Conference size upgrades:
- LAL: + Ayton
- LAC: Zubac + Collins, Lopez, Niederhauser
- OKC: Hartenstein + Chet
- DEN: Jokic + Valanciunas
- DAL: Lively, Gafford + AD
- HOU: Sengun, Adams + Capela
- POR: Clingan, RW + Yang
- PHO: + Williams, Maluach

So keeping both Reid and Randle is the bare minimum to stay competitive:

MIN: Gobert, Randle, Reid + Beringer

We can debate the idea of keeping NAW over Reid or Randle — he’s a proven comboguard, solid two-way piece — but given MIN’s limited resources and cap constraints, trading him to the East (ATL) for compensation might be one of the more reasonable outcomes.

Stats don't always tell the full story, just watch a few games against good defense and competitive teams.

Excellent point! That's exactly what I am talking about. Imagine Sexton, DJM against suffocating OKC defense. Sexton btw never played in playoffs. He is not a big guard (6'0.5 barefoot), even for PG standard who will be hunted in playoffs and killed on screens. Putting $30 mil stakes on DJM after Achilles torn is quiet a gamble.

P.S. Also worth noting: Dell Demps worked in UTA, and his son Riley Demps is currently part of UTA’s front office. MIN has plenty of eyes and ties inside the Jazz organization. If they really wanted Sexton, he’d already be here.

[minimus]

There’s a REASON why New Orleans built a supertrio of Zion–Poole–Murray, and Charlotte went with Ball–Sexton–Bridges.

Please, let them cook — don’t get in their way.

[Klomp]

Does anyone remember reports from before the 2023 draft that indicated Tim Connelly had a lot of interest in prospect Anthony Black?

[Slim Tubby]

Does anyone remember reports from before the 2023 draft that indicated Tim Connelly had a lot of interest in prospect Anthony Black?

Is this leading somewhere, my good man?

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM Forums mobile app

[cmoss84]

DDV and Miller for Coby White?
Figure out if we want to keep him later on...but would be a nice tradeoff.

[gandlogo]

Does anyone remember reports from before the 2023 draft that indicated Tim Connelly had a lot of interest in prospect Anthony Black?

I don't remember Connelly's interest in Black, but I liked him as a player. Rebounds well for the position. I always liked something where Gobbie goes to Orlando and the Wolves get Suggs back, but maybe something similar could be done with Black and pieces.

[jpatrick]

DDV and Miller for Coby White?
Figure out if we want to keep him later on...but would be a nice tradeoff.

This comes down to what White wants in his next contract. DDV is locked in for a couple years.

White can extend now for 4/90, which I’m sure the Bulls would do but White is going to hit the 2026 free agent market, which is flush with cash for free agents. If he’s looking for 35m+ per season, no way we can and no way we should accommodate that. And therefore no way we can give up assets for him.

[winforlose]

DDV and Miller for Coby White?
Figure out if we want to keep him later on...but would be a nice tradeoff.

This comes down to what White wants in his next contract. DDV is locked in for a couple years.

White can extend now for 4/90, which I’m sure the Bulls would do but White is going to hit the 2026 free agent market, which is flush with cash for free agents. If he’s looking for 35m+ per season, no way we can and no way we should accommodate that. And therefore no way we can give up assets for him.

Let’s assume everything you said is correct. This year his salary wouldn’t put us in the 2nd apron. Next year, it likely would (I would need to do the math, but I am assuming worst case.) That means in year 3 we need to cut costs or start facing the really bad penalties of the 2nd apron (draft pick poison.) My question is, if bringing in White wins a chip, is it worth overpaying him? Now a lot of you will attack me saying of course it couldn’t guarantee a chip, but this hypothetical. The follow up is what percentage chance does he need to add to be worth the risk? Which then begs the question, what are his strengths, flaws, and potentials? Could White improve as he reaches his prime, and how does he fit with our existing core? The prospect of overpaying him is not the dealbreaker for me it is for you. Especially if we can have JB take over for Rudy in 27/28 which is the season this would be a problem.

The issue is not the expense (remember the cap is going up 10% per year and as the number gets higher 10% of a larger number is a larger increase (I.E 10% of 100 is 10. 10% of 200 is 20.) The issue is fit and value to our team.

[BlacJacMac]

Derrick White? Sure!
Coby White? Nope.

[winforlose]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

[BlacJacMac]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

I doubt it. Supposedly they turned down Issac, Anthony, two 1st round picks and a swap from Orlando.

They really overvalue White.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Question for me is why we'd want White when there's a lot of overlap with DDV with their strengths and weaknesses. If people don't want to play DDV at PG because his handle is too loose and he's a 3 point gunner and not a natural playmaker...that just described Coby White to a T. And you're dropping from somebody in the 75th percentile on defense to somebody in the 8th percentile. And Donte is a better 3 point shooter in most scenarios.

[shrink]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Two things.

First, because NAW’s new contract was more than 20% of his previous salary, the trade was “base year compensation.” That means that he was only worth half his value on the outgoing side of the deal, so his TPE is only $7,580,900, and not big enough for White’s $12,888,889 salary. We got the exception the day the trade was completed, and it lasts one year.

Second, we can’t escape apron issues. Taking in more salary than we send out triggers first apron restrictions. I would hope in future CBA’s that they remove this clause, or at least make it a second apron restriction.