Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[CS707]

I'm telling ya. JK is on a revenge tour. He wants his QO rescinded or hold team hostage until he gets his salary to ride the bench or traded.

I thought we couldn't rescind the QO at this point?

Either way, that seems like a bad strategy on his part. His future is still very much tied to the good will of the organization.

[statsman]

There is just no way GS is getting Ellis in any scenario. Kings would rather have Ellis than JK straight up. Not sure if Carter is even on the table anymore.

The Warriors don't need another non shooter, there was never any interest in Carter. I get not wanting to part with Ellis, so I don't think there is a deal to be had.

Oh, there's a deal alright. It's for the Warriors in a position of weakness to bend over backwards for any team that wants Kuminga (for a price below what the Warriors would pay), in exchange to take back some crappy salaries and hard cap themselves at the first apron, potentially losing the use of the TPMLE and Horford in the process.

[Twinkie defense]

At some point does Kuminga play out one year with the Warriors, effectively with a no-trade clause? Do the Warriors withdrawal their QO? With no Warriors contract that Kuminga is happy with, and no trade offers the Warriors are happy with, what is gonna move, because Kuminga is not going to sit out the season.
Edit: Warriors can no longer rescind their QO to Kuminga.

[statsman]

I'm telling ya. JK is on a revenge tour. He wants his QO rescinded or hold team hostage until he gets his salary to ride the bench or traded.

I thought we couldn't rescind the QO at this point?

Either way, that seems like a bad strategy on his part. His future is still very much tied to the good will of the organization.

That's correct. The QO is there until October 1st, and it cannot be rescinded by the Warriors. It can be extended as far out as March 1st with the agreement of the team and the player. I doubt Kuminga's camp would do that.

Now, since the QO hasn't been signed, the Warriors can rescind their RFA rights on Kuminga, making him an UFA. I seriously doubt the Warriors would do that, although it would be interesting to see what Kuminga could get on the open market. NTMLE ($14.1M)?

Most of the teams (and their fans) whining about the Warriors' demands couldn't do dick under those circumstances as most have spent their cap space or part/all of their NTMLE. And even under those circumstances, the Warriors would still own the full Bird rights to Kuminga and could offer the most money.

[bay2hk]

I guess the warriors will just need to wait until 10/1 and let the QO expire. We will still retain JK’s RFA rights and can match any offers. If JK lets the QO expire and remain unsigned going into the season then he’s just hurting his value.

This is Patrick McCaw redux situation all over again.

[statsman]

I guess the warriors will just need to wait until 10/1 and let the QO expire. We will still retain JK’s RFA rights and can match any offers. If JK lets the QO expire and remain unsigned going into the season then he’s just hurting his value.

This is Patrick McCaw redux situation all over again.

The Kuminga camp and someone else (Jazz? Nets?) may be waiting for the Warriors to fill in their roster to the required 14 players for the start of the regular season. If one of those signings is with the TPMLE for Horford, then they know what they can offer Kuminga where the Warriors can't match because of the hard cap at the 2nd apron.

Now, I guess the Warriors would have 48 hours to try and move salary (allowed?), which would require jettisoning at least one of Moody, Hield, or Podz (they could waive TDJ for a touch more room, as matching Kuminga would take TDJ's 14th roster spot).

It's also possible if Kuminga remains unsigned by the start of the regular season that someone like Richard would take one of the roster spots on a rookie minimum salary contract. This would give the Warriors an extra $1M below the 2nd apron compared to a 2+yr vet minimum contract.

[vvoland]

I guess the warriors will just need to wait until 10/1 and let the QO expire. We will still retain JK’s RFA rights and can match any offers. If JK lets the QO expire and remain unsigned going into the season then he’s just hurting his value.

This is Patrick McCaw redux situation all over again.

The Kuminga camp and someone else (Jazz? Nets?) may be waiting for the Warriors to fill in their roster to the required 14 players for the start of the regular season. If one of those signings is with the TPMLE for Horford, then they know what they can offer Kuminga where the Warriors can't match because of the hard cap at the 2nd apron.

Now, I guess the Warriors would have 48 hours to try and move salary (allowed?), which would require jettisoning at least one of Moody, Hield, or Podz (they could waive TDJ for a touch more room, as matching Kuminga would take TDJ's 14th roster spot).

It's also possible if Kuminga remains unsigned by the start of the regular season that someone like Richard would take one of the roster spots on a rookie minimum salary contract. This would give the Warriors an extra $1M below the 2nd apron compared to a 2+yr vet minimum contract.

Considering the dubs played hardball with Dray, Steph, Klay, and Iggy at various/all points of their contract extensions, I don't think this is particularly unusual. Add in the fact that no RFA has signed and this seems to be the new MO, around the league.

They could probably get a further under by waiving Santos on top of TJD, while using one of those empty roster spots on Richard. That's if no one wants to give up a top 65 protected 2nd for either and/or both.

[bay2hk]

I guess the warriors will just need to wait until 10/1 and let the QO expire. We will still retain JK’s RFA rights and can match any offers. If JK lets the QO expire and remain unsigned going into the season then he’s just hurting his value.

This is Patrick McCaw redux situation all over again.

The Kuminga camp and someone else (Jazz? Nets?) may be waiting for the Warriors to fill in their roster to the required 14 players for the start of the regular season. If one of those signings is with the TPMLE for Horford, then they know what they can offer Kuminga where the Warriors can't match because of the hard cap at the 2nd apron.

Now, I guess the Warriors would have 48 hours to try and move salary (allowed?), which would require jettisoning at least one of Moody, Hield, or Podz (they could waive TDJ for a touch more room, as matching Kuminga would take TDJ's 14th roster spot).

It's also possible if Kuminga remains unsigned by the start of the regular season that someone like Richard would take one of the roster spots on a rookie minimum salary contract. This would give the Warriors an extra $1M below the 2nd apron compared to a 2+yr vet minimum contract.

Realistically only the nets have the cap space to do this, and it’ll be harder for teams to clear cap space once the stretch and waive deadline passes on 8/31. Teams have to stretch and waive players by 8/29 for them to clear waivers by 8/31.

Also, I don’t see Jazz pursuing JK because they have enough forwards on their roster.

[Onus]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45816235/jonathan-kuminga-no-rush-accept-warriors-contract-offers

This has been an ice-cold market for restricted free agents because of the lack of cap space around the league. The Warriors anticipated that and believe they've offered Kuminga the highest starting salary currently on the table for him.

They were optimistic about their most recent pitch, but Kuminga didn't take it. His side will continue scouring the league for sign-and-trade opportunities in hopes that something eventually pops.

Crazy to think he can have a bigger role in Sac. In phx he's probably behind Booker and Green.

[marthafokker]

Teams can still trade away some salary (and some 2nd rounders) to make the JK offer. That is still cheaper than paying Dubs a youngling and a 1st.

[statsman]

Teams can still trade away some salary (and some 2nd rounders) to make the JK offer. That is still cheaper than paying Dubs a youngling and a 1st.

If they really want Kuminga, trades are definitely an avenue for those teams. A good GM, who might be interested in Kuminga, may already have some contingency trades lined up.

[statsman]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45816235/jonathan-kuminga-no-rush-accept-warriors-contract-offers

This has been an ice-cold market for restricted free agents because of the lack of cap space around the league. The Warriors anticipated that and believe they've offered Kuminga the highest starting salary currently on the table for him.

They were optimistic about their most recent pitch, but Kuminga didn't take it. His side will continue scouring the league for sign-and-trade opportunities in hopes that something eventually pops.

The problem with scouring the league for a S&T deal is the Warriors would still have to agree to it, while addressing BYC matching issues and the 1st apron.

I guess the hope for the Kuminga camp is to get one offer, even if refused by the Warriors, to somehow set a "value" on Kuminga going forward. We're already 3 1/2 weeks into free agency, and here they are, still looking for a S&T deal.

[BayAreaDub]

It feels like Kuminga would take a similar offer to what Dubs are offering. But he gets featured and starts (Suns/Kings). Vs inconsistency and no starting that he’s experience and would likely get here. So probs pushing for more money if he’s staying and sitting on the bench.

Kerr broke him. MDJ gotta keep the roster balanced to avoid Kerr’s sporadic rotations. Truly hurts the players, especially when it’s not done fairly.

Guarantee if Draymond said he come off the bench and that was publicly announced. Kuminga would sign the next day. But that ain’t happening.

[Onus]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45816235/jonathan-kuminga-no-rush-accept-warriors-contract-offers

This has been an ice-cold market for restricted free agents because of the lack of cap space around the league. The Warriors anticipated that and believe they've offered Kuminga the highest starting salary currently on the table for him.

They were optimistic about their most recent pitch, but Kuminga didn't take it. His side will continue scouring the league for sign-and-trade opportunities in hopes that something eventually pops.

The problem with scouring the league for a S&T deal is the Warriors would still have to agree to it, while addressing BYC matching issues and the 1st apron.

I guess the hope for the Kuminga camp is to get one offer, even if refused by the Warriors, to somehow set a "value" on Kuminga going forward. We're already 3 1/2 weeks into free agency, and here they are, still looking for a S&T deal.

Apparently the Kings are offering a starting role but don't want to trade anything for him at the same time.

[marthafokker]

It feels like Kuminga would take a similar offer to what Dubs are offering. But he gets featured and starts (Suns/Kings). Vs inconsistency and no starting that he’s experience and would likely get here. So probs pushing for more money if he’s staying and sitting on the bench.

Kerr broke him. MDJ gotta keep the roster balanced to avoid Kerr’s sporadic rotations. Truly hurts the players, especially when it’s not done fairly.

Guarantee if Draymond said he come off the bench and that was publicly announced. Kuminga would sign the next day. But that ain’t happening.

Even if Dray said so, JK won't believe it unless there is a bonus clause where Kerr will not bench him. Like bonus for DNP-CD, or less than 25 minutes per game bonus. I know I won't be on this roster knowing my value goes down even more signing this contract.... to work on next contract.

[ChuckDurn]

Kings and Suns. The Warriors don't like what's being offered (I don't blame them, nor do I blame the Kings or Suns), and Kuminga doesn't like any of the Warriors' offers.

Seems like the game plan is an extended holdout for Kuminga, and the Warriors forgoing their TPMLE (and any attempts for Horford) and line up the vet minimum signings.

Doubt they lose Horford or any of their other targets over this. May just have to roll the dice on a hard cap and will any team make an offer that can beat it. Really only the Nets and Jazz

Problem is, some other teams could dump assets to the Nets and Jazz to open up space on their own. So this is a little deceptive.

[NW]

Kings and Suns. The Warriors don't like what's being offered (I don't blame them, nor do I blame the Kings or Suns), and Kuminga doesn't like any of the Warriors' offers.

Seems like the game plan is an extended holdout for Kuminga, and the Warriors forgoing their TPMLE (and any attempts for Horford) and line up the vet minimum signings.

Doubt they lose Horford or any of their other targets over this. May just have to roll the dice on a hard cap and will any team make an offer that can beat it. Really only the Nets and Jazz

Problem is, some other teams could dump assets to the Nets and Jazz to open up space on their own. So this is a little deceptive.

Who’s close enough to having cap space to be able to dump some to the Nets or Suns to get there? And who would do it for Kuminga?

[NW]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45816235/jonathan-kuminga-no-rush-accept-warriors-contract-offers

The problem with scouring the league for a S&T deal is the Warriors would still have to agree to it, while addressing BYC matching issues and the 1st apron.

I guess the hope for the Kuminga camp is to get one offer, even if refused by the Warriors, to somehow set a "value" on Kuminga going forward. We're already 3 1/2 weeks into free agency, and here they are, still looking for a S&T deal.

Apparently the Kings are offering a starting role but don't want to trade anything for him at the same time.

Agreed. The Kings want to give him starter’s role and minutes, pay him $20+ mil, but want a lowball trade package to GS. Don’t buy it. Were seeing the negotiation play out in the media

Deal started as Carter, Saric and some 2nds
GS leaked wanting Keegan Murray
Kings turned the 2nds to a protected first
GS went from Murray to interest in Keon Ellis.
I think both sides are closing in on a middle ground. We’ll see if they get there.

[xdrta+]

Doubt they lose Horford or any of their other targets over this. May just have to roll the dice on a hard cap and will any team make an offer that can beat it. Really only the Nets and Jazz

Problem is, some other teams could dump assets to the Nets and Jazz to open up space on their own. So this is a little deceptive.

Who’s close enough to having cap space to be able to dump some to the Nets or Suns to get there? And who would do it for Kuminga?

Wizards could easily get there. Don't know if they would want to. They seem to be positioning themselves to be a salary dump destination.

[vvoland]

Problem is, some other teams could dump assets to the Nets and Jazz to open up space on their own. So this is a little deceptive.

Who’s close enough to having cap space to be able to dump some to the Nets or Suns to get there? And who would do it for Kuminga?

Wizards could easily get there. Don't know if they would want to. They seem to be positioning themselves to be a salary dump destination.

Plus they got middleton, kispert, bilal, & whitmore playing a similar role.