2025-26 Lineup Thread -- How's it shakin out?

[DCZards]

Isn't there at least some problem w/ that plan? After all, 2 years of Cam being Cam led the team that drafted him in R1 to give away a pair of R2 picks just to get rid of him!

As they say, a leopard can't change his spots. All the same, I hope Cam can add some court awareness and defense to his bag.

From what I’ve read and heard, that was the problem in Houston. They were not in a position to let the 20 yr old Cam play through his mistakes. Unlike the Zards, the Rockets were competing for a top seed in the playoffs.

And the Rockets also had a couple of other very young top picks (Green & Thompson) who needed the opportunity to play through their mistakes.

Yes, Cam needs to get better in those areas you point out. But he also needs to be set free to do what he does best, which is score and get to the basket.

Talented players get traded all the time—and it’s not always as simple as it’s because a team just wants “to get rid of him.”

This is the lineup thread. Whose minutes is Cam going to take? Our other forwards are George, Coulibaly, Middleton, Champagnie, Kispert, and Will Riley. If Middleton is healthy, that means he is probably looking at taking Champagnie's minutes which would be a shame (unless it works of course). I guess we could use him at backup center ahead of Bagley and Vuc for the tank; he is one of the thickest players on the team though only 6'7.

I’m not smart enough to know for sure whose minutes get cut because of the presence of Cam. However, I do expect Cam to get at least 18-20 mins a game.

I think there’s a good possibility that Cam turns out to be more consistent and dependable offensively than most of the forwards you named, with the possible exception of a healthy Middleton.

I see Riley logging most of his minutes in the G league.

[Frichuela]

Isn't there at least some problem w/ that plan? After all, 2 years of Cam being Cam led the team that drafted him in R1 to give away a pair of R2 picks just to get rid of him!

As they say, a leopard can't change his spots. All the same, I hope Cam can add some court awareness and defense to his bag.

From what I’ve read and heard, that was the problem in Houston. They were not in a position to let the 20 yr old Cam play through his mistakes. Unlike the Zards, the Rockets were competing for a top seed in the playoffs.

And the Rockets also had a couple of other very young top picks (Green & Thompson) who needed the opportunity to play through their mistakes.

Yes, Cam needs to get better in those areas you point out. But he also needs to be set free to do what he does best, which is score and get to the basket.

Talented players get traded all the time—and it’s not always as simple as it’s because a team just wants “to get rid of him.”

This is the lineup thread. Whose minutes is Cam going to take? Our other forwards are George, Coulibaly, Middleton, Champagnie, Kispert, and Will Riley. If Middleton is healthy, that means he is probably looking at taking Champagnie's minutes which would be a shame (unless it works of course). I guess we could use him at backup center ahead of Bagley and Vuc for the tank; he is one of the thickest players on the team though only 6'7.

This is why a Kispert trade has to be in the cards and potentially Champagnie too (even though I like him as a player very much).

If I was Dawkins I'd push for the following 3-team trade:

POR gets Kispert
WAS gets Robert Williams + 2026 WAS pick unprotected back from NY
NY gets Champagnie + 2 2nd rounders from POR + 1 2nd rounder from us.

This way:

1) We solve the glut at forward.
2) We get another body at center (Robert Williams who has 1 year left of contract).
3) We can go for it and win as many games as possible with our young core not worrying we'll lose the pick. Remember we also have the PHX swap, so regardless of overachieving expectations we have odds for a good pick in the 2026 lottery.

New line-up:

McCollum/Bub/Branham
Tre/Will Riley/AJ
Bilal/Kyshawn/Jones
Cam/Middleton/Watkins (2-way)
Sarr/R. Williams/Bagley/Tristan (2-way)

In this set up, all young wings have a chance of minutes.

[dobrojim]

We probably have conflicting priorities.
Player development is our top priority but we can't be
completely sure what factors mgmt rank more important
in that regard. Winning sooner might aid in development
of current players but worsens draft position. So how
confident is mgmt in being able to obtain their
preferred players from less favorable draft position?
Compromises and predicting an uncertain future
are tough decisions in some cases. Obvious ones in
other cases. Who knew that Greg Oden would get
hurt and never become what he might have? Or that
the importance of things other than size would increase.

[doclinkin]

...let Cam be Cam...to take advantage of his immense offensive upside.

Isn't there at least some problem w/ that plan? After all, 2 years of Cam being Cam led the team that drafted him in R1 to give away a pair of R2 picks just to get rid of him!

As they say, a leopard can't change his spots. All the same, I hope Cam can add some court awareness and defense to his bag.

From what I’ve read and heard, that was the problem in Houston. They were not in a position to let the 20 yr old Cam play through his mistakes. Unlike the Zards, the Rockets were competing for a top seed in the playoffs.

And the Rockets also had a couple of other very young top picks (Green & Thompson) who needed the opportunity to play through their mistakes.

Yes, Cam needs to get better in those areas you point out. But he also needs to be set free to do what he does best, which is score and get to the basket.

Talented players get traded all the time—and it’s not always as simple as it’s because a team just wants “to get rid of him.”

Also, when it comes to players like Cam Whitmore, I’m looking at how to increase their value for future trade more than seeing them as a perfect fit for this team.

We do need scoring, adding Tre Johnson helps, but after we ship Middleton and CJ McCollum we will need to have somebody willing to attack and put the ball in the hoop. Enter Cam Whitmore stage left.

Will Dawkins has shown an ability to get something from nothing. Teams will pay for reliable scorers. More than any other stat, points per game seems to be the thing that recoups the most value.

I anticipate bringing Whitmore off the bench until we can get value from the veterans in trade. Then I expect his minutes will increase and points as well. If his defense and team game do not improve, all for the better as we get empty points and exciting losses. Preserving our position in the tank race.

By then we are into the draft season where we hope to get a primary scorer that may displace him. Which transmutes him into a trade asset. Unless he does actually get good. Which is one of them good kind of problems to have.

[GoneShammGone]

Isn't there at least some problem w/ that plan? After all, 2 years of Cam being Cam led the team that drafted him in R1 to give away a pair of R2 picks just to get rid of him!

As they say, a leopard can't change his spots. All the same, I hope Cam can add some court awareness and defense to his bag.

From what I’ve read and heard, that was the problem in Houston. They were not in a position to let the 20 yr old Cam play through his mistakes. Unlike the Zards, the Rockets were competing for a top seed in the playoffs.

And the Rockets also had a couple of other very young top picks (Green & Thompson) who needed the opportunity to play through their mistakes.

Yes, Cam needs to get better in those areas you point out. But he also needs to be set free to do what he does best, which is score and get to the basket.

Talented players get traded all the time—and it’s not always as simple as it’s because a team just wants “to get rid of him.”

Also, when it comes to players like Cam Whitmore, I’m looking at how to increase their value for future trade more than seeing them as a perfect fit for this team.

We do need scoring, adding Tre Johnson helps, but after we ship Middleton and CJ McCollum we will need to have somebody willing to attack and put the ball in the hoop. Enter Cam Whitmore stage left.

Will Dawkins has shown an ability to get something from nothing. Teams will pay for reliable scorers. More than any other stat, points per game seems to be the thing that recoups the most value.

I anticipate bringing Whitmore off the bench until we can get value from the veterans in trade. Then I expect his minutes will increase and points as well. If his defense and team game do not improve, all for the better as we get empty points and exciting losses. Preserving our position in the tank race.

By then we are into the draft season where we hope to get a primary scorer that may displace him. Which transmutes him into a trade asset. Unless he does actually get good. Which is one of them good kind of problems to have.

I generally agree with you about Cam, but I think he'll get significant minutes in the first half of the season. Reason 1: Middleton has to be on limited minutes. He will break down otherwise. Reason 2: More runway for Riley and AJ in the G-league where they can work on body and game.

I think they try to rehab Cam's value for a mid-season trade (assuming that is allowed?) if possible.

[joshuacf]

Vukcevic is irrelevant.

There's no point in spending development resources, money, time, etc. on someone who doesn't have a high ceiling.

If he's planning to play in Serbia, then he won't be here, & we pick up 2-way slot to use on someone younger with more upside.

I disagree, I think he's got a decent ceiling. His poor defense aside, he's got actual basketball skills.

I'd rather give Vuk minutes than some random UDFA lottery ticket prospect.

IOW, you'd rather give Vuk minutes than som unnamed guy whom you've pre-defined as worse than Vuk, is thay it?
Hard to disagree.

But, back here in the real world, guys with an unfixable problem in their game are gone from the league in a couple years.

Back to Serbia, Vuk! Don't let the door hit ya on the backside as you're leaving!

Name the unsigned player you think we should be giving minutes to over Vuk.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

From what I’ve read and heard, that was the problem in Houston. They were not in a position to let the 20 yr old Cam play through his mistakes. Unlike the Zards, the Rockets were competing for a top seed in the playoffs.

And the Rockets also had a couple of other very young top picks (Green & Thompson) who needed the opportunity to play through their mistakes.

Yes, Cam needs to get better in those areas you point out. But he also needs to be set free to do what he does best, which is score and get to the basket.

Talented players get traded all the time—and it’s not always as simple as it’s because a team just wants “to get rid of him.”

Also, when it comes to players like Cam Whitmore, I’m looking at how to increase their value for future trade more than seeing them as a perfect fit for this team.

We do need scoring, adding Tre Johnson helps, but after we ship Middleton and CJ McCollum we will need to have somebody willing to attack and put the ball in the hoop. Enter Cam Whitmore stage left.

Will Dawkins has shown an ability to get something from nothing. Teams will pay for reliable scorers. More than any other stat, points per game seems to be the thing that recoups the most value.

I anticipate bringing Whitmore off the bench until we can get value from the veterans in trade. Then I expect his minutes will increase and points as well. If his defense and team game do not improve, all for the better as we get empty points and exciting losses. Preserving our position in the tank race.

By then we are into the draft season where we hope to get a primary scorer that may displace him. Which transmutes him into a trade asset. Unless he does actually get good. Which is one of them good kind of problems to have.

I generally agree with you about Cam, but I think he'll get significant minutes in the first half of the season. Reason 1: Middleton has to be on limited minutes. He will break down otherwise. Reason 2: More runway for Riley and AJ in the G-league where they can work on body and game.

I think they try to rehab Cam's value for a mid-season trade (assuming that is allowed?) if possible.

The question I'm starting to wonder about is can we play Tre Johnson at PG?

The reason I'm wondering about that is because I've been struggling to figure out this roster as constructed with an overload of forwards. So every time with the lineup , I've been mentally starting with Bub and Tre as the backcourt. And let me clarify... I'm not including Middleton, CJ, Kispert when I do this. I'm looking at the potential long-term pieces, although I acknowledge they will be in the rotation, and Middleton & CJ very well may even start. So I'm essentially looking at this roster post deadline when I'm working this out.

So I automatically start with Bub & Tre as the starting backcourt. Then at the forwards Bilal, Kyshawn & Cam battle for the starting spots. Sarr at center... Then AJ and Branham, Riley as backup guards. D Jones, Watkins, Champagnie backup forwards, with Tristan & Bagley at center.

One of the problems I have with this is choosing between Cam, Bilal and Kyshawn. Champagnie gets buried a bit here. And at G the rotation is a bit thin with AJ the most likely as 3rd G...

But what if we go with Tre at PG. This would allow us to shift Bilal to the 2, and open up the forwards for Cam and Kyshawn to both start. Then Bub would fit in as 3rd G, and Champagnie as 3rd forward. With Sarr & Tristan that's a nice 8 man rotation. AJ, Branham, Riley, Watkins, D Jones, Bagley round out the bench.

IMO that just balances out the rotation in a better way, and makes more sense. I like the offense of Tre and Cam from the backcourt & frontcourt respectively, with the D of Bilal and Sarr on the perimeter & interior respectively. With Kyshawn in that starting lineup as the swiss army knife glue guy with his length, defense, shooting, passing bringing it all together. Then I like Bub and Champagnie as the 1st off the bench as stabilizers coming in with IQ, motor & versatility.

So for this to work, the question is, can Tre run point, and can the offense run through him?

Watch on YouTube

[penbeast0]

The question I'm starting to wonder about is can we play Tre Johnson at PG?

The reason I'm wondering about that is because I've been struggling to figure out this roster as constructed with an overload of forwards. So every time with the lineup , I've been mentally starting with Bub and Tre as the backcourt. And let me clarify... I'm not including Middleton, CJ, Kispert when I do this. I'm looking at the potential long-term pieces, although I acknowledge they will be in the rotation, and Middleton & CJ very well may even start. So I'm essentially looking at this roster post deadline when I'm working this out.

So I automatically start with Bub & Tre as the starting backcourt. Then at the forwards Bilal, Kyshawn & Cam battle for the starting spots. Sarr at center... Then AJ and Branham, Riley as backup guards. D Jones, Watkins, Champagnie backup forwards, with Tristan & Bagley at center.

One of the problems I have with this is choosing between Cam, Bilal and Kyshawn. Champagnie gets buried a bit here. And at G the rotation is a bit thin with AJ the most likely as 3rd G...

But what if we go with Tre at PG. This would allow us to shift Bilal to the 2, and open up the forwards for Cam and Kyshawn to both start. Then Bub would fit in as 3rd G, and Champagnie as 3rd forward. With Sarr & Tristan that's a nice 8 man rotation. AJ, Branham, Riley, Watkins, D Jones, Bagley round out the bench.

IMO that just balances out the rotation in a better way, and makes more sense. I like the offense of Tre and Cam from the backcourt & frontcourt respectively, with the D of Bilal and Sarr on the perimeter & interior respectively. With Kyshawn in that starting lineup as the swiss army knife glue guy with his length, defense, shooting, passing bringing it all together. Then I like Bub and Champagnie as the 1st off the bench as stabilizers coming in with IQ, motor & versatility.

So for this to work, the question is, can Tre run point, and can the offense run through him?

Tre Johnson didn't show any signs of PG skills in college or summer league. One of his weaknesses as a wing is lack of secondary playmaking for others. Cam also hasn't shown any passing chops. Nor have either shown much defensively. You might want only one of them (TJ) in the lineup and one (CW) as instant offense off the bench.

[9 and 20]

Why is Cam already in line to be traded again? He came into the league at 18 and has been reasonably productive his first two years in challenging circumstances. I'm excited to see what the guy can do here with a very different dynamic than what he had in Houston. For sure there's something (negative) there if he could only net 2 second round picks in a trade for Houston but he wouldn't be the first to overcome whatever problems he had after getting traded.

I don't think Tre Johnson can play point guard. Kyshawn George can handle the ball a little bit but he's not a PG either.

Marcus Smart -

Read on Twitter

[AFM]

Tre Johnson is about as pure of an SG archetype as I've ever seen. Yeah he has a nice handle and decent court vision, but that doesn't make him a PG. It just makes him not a black hole.

[mhd]

Why is Cam already in line to be traded again? He came into the league at 18 and has been reasonably productive his first two years in challenging circumstances. I'm excited to see what the guy can do here with a very different dynamic than what he had in Houston. For sure there's something (negative) there if he could only net 2 second round picks in a trade for Houston but he wouldn't be the first to overcome whatever problems he had after getting traded.

I don't think Tre Johnson can play point guard. Kyshawn George can handle the ball a little bit but he's not a PG either.

Marcus Smart -

Read on Twitter

Smart gave up 6.5 million in the buyout. Rozier made roughly 3.5 million more than Smart. That's 10 million in real cash. It would have taken multiple 2nds (with which a ton of) to consider that trade.

[payitforward]

I disagree, I think he's got a decent ceiling. His poor defense aside, he's got actual basketball skills.

I'd rather give Vuk minutes than some random UDFA lottery ticket prospect.

IOW, you'd rather give Vuk minutes than som unnamed guy whom you've pre-defined as worse than Vuk, is thay it?
Hard to disagree.

But, back here in the real world, guys with an unfixable problem in their game are gone from the league in a couple years.

Back to Serbia, Vuk! Don't let the door hit ya on the backside as you're leaving!

Name the unsigned player you think we should be giving minutes to over Vuk.

Why am I to do that?

I'm not a hater; I just disagree, based on performance so far, that Vuk has NBA-level ability overall.

[DCZards]

Playing Tre at PG takes away from what he does best—shooting and moving without the ball to get open shots. It also saddles him with the responsibility of running the offense and getting the ball to teammates.

Tre is a true SG and needs to start his NBA career as one.

I’d bring Cam off the bench to be the primary scorer when Tre sits.

[joshuacf]

Why am I to do that?

I'm not a hater; I just disagree, based on performance so far, that Vuk has NBA-level ability overall.

Vukcevic is irrelevant.

There's no point in spending development resources, money, time, etc. on someone who doesn't have a high ceiling.

If he's planning to play in Serbia, then he won't be here, & we pick up 2-way slot to use on someone younger with more upside.

You assert there are people younger with more upside available to be picked up. And then when I say I'd rather have Vuk over some lottery ticket prospect, you accuse me of creating a strawman! Funny how that works.

So I am asking you, if you don't like Vuk, who should his minutes go to? Who are these younger players with more upside that we should play in his stead?

[payitforward]

Your point is perfectly fair, amigo.

I'm not high on Vukcevic, personally, but he is under contract and absolutely should get a chance to show his skills and abilities. I hope he's terrific & I promise to eat my words explicitly if so.

Fair enough?

Peace!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Playing Tre at PG takes away from what he does best—shooting and moving without the ball to get open shots. It also saddles him with the responsibility of running the offense and getting the ball to teammates.

Tre is a true SG and needs to start his NBA career as one.

I’d bring Cam off the bench to be the primary scorer when Tre sits.

Make sense.

So you’d go Bub, Tre, Bilal, Kyshawn, Sarr with AJ & Cam 1st off the bench?

That’s what I kept coming up with, but was struggling a little with that and started looking for alternatives.

[doclinkin]

Playing Tre at PG takes away from what he does best—shooting and moving without the ball to get open shots. It also saddles him with the responsibility of running the offense and getting the ball to teammates.

Tre is a true SG and needs to start his NBA career as one.

I’d bring Cam off the bench to be the primary scorer when Tre sits.

Make sense.

So you’d go Bub, Tre, Bilal, Kyshawn, Sarr with AJ & Cam 1st off the bench?

That’s what I kept coming up with, but was struggling a little with that and started looking for alternatives.

I think by the 2nd half of the season Will Riley will ascend from the G League and crack the rotation, displacing AJJ as 3rd guard in the mix.

AJJ has the edge in athleticism but Riley has both versatile skills and has shown an ability to improve on the fly. I get the sense he’ll adjust pretty quickly to the G League competition and the team will be eager to get him 2nd half reps.

Riley has a dribble drive game. Ranged shooting. Undercover playmaking chops. The caveat is that Keefe will likely give the edge to whichever of these string bean guards is giving the most effort on defense.

[nate33]

Playing Tre at PG takes away from what he does best—shooting and moving without the ball to get open shots. It also saddles him with the responsibility of running the offense and getting the ball to teammates.

Tre is a true SG and needs to start his NBA career as one.

I’d bring Cam off the bench to be the primary scorer when Tre sits.

Make sense.

So you’d go Bub, Tre, Bilal, Kyshawn, Sarr with AJ & Cam 1st off the bench?

That’s what I kept coming up with, but was struggling a little with that and started looking for alternatives.

I think by the 2nd half of the season Will Riley will ascend from the G League and crack the rotation, displacing AJJ as 3rd guard in the mix.

AJJ has the edge in athleticism but Riley has both versatile skills and has shown an ability to improve on the fly. I get the sense he’ll adjust pretty quickly to the G League competition and the team will be eager to get him 2nd half reps.

Riley has a dribble drive game. Ranged shooting. Undercover playmaking chops. The caveat is that Keefe will likely give the edge to whichever of these string bean guards is giving the most effort on defense.

Interesting idea. I hadn't really considered Riley playing SG, but that might actually mitigate the issues with his slender frame and allow him to function defensively.

[doclinkin]

Interesting idea. I hadn't really considered Riley playing SG, but that might actually mitigate the issues with his slender frame and allow him to function defensively.

Dunno why not. Think: Positional size. I think that’s where they envision him playing. He’s got handle and outside shooting. Is not a rebounder and without a plus wingspan he won’t be much of an interior defender. But as a 2 guard who is still growing he can shoot over the heads of defenders and has enough wiggle to his game to get open for a quick pull up against forwards switched on him.

[payitforward]

We have, amazingly, 12 guys on our roster from the last 3 draft classes: Bilal, Vuk, Cam, Martin, Sarr, Bub, Kyshaun, Ajay, Jones, Tre, Riley, & Watkins. Those guys plus Champagnie are the only ones I want to see this season.

McCollum, Middleton, Bagley, Kispert, Branham... I couldn't care less. They don't have to play at all as far as I'm concerned.