2025-26 Off-Season

[JonFromVA]

202nd out of 569, which is 64th percentile. About average for a PF/SF, particularly since his ORBs suffer from him usually playing on the perimeter offensively.

Hunter is 334th, which is 41st percentile and more appropriate for a SG/SF rather than a PF.

It's not even that Wade's a good rebounder, but he does the job adequately for a PF/SF. Hunter is a bad rebounder for a PF/SF.

Hunter really isn't a 4. You can play him there in a small ball unit, but the Cavs are better when he's a the 3.

Atkinson uses Hunter almost exclusively as a 4.

That Wade lineup with Hunter was his most effective, though.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hunter really isn't a 4. You can play him there in a small ball unit, but the Cavs are better when he's a the 3.

Atkinson uses Hunter almost exclusively as a 4.

That Wade lineup with Hunter was his most effective, though.

Wade could be the 3 in those lines, hard to say; it is matchup dependent.

[jbk1234]

Atkinson uses Hunter almost exclusively as a 4.

That Wade lineup with Hunter was his most effective, though.

Wade could be the 3 in those lines, hard to say; it is matchup dependent.

No it's not.

[JonFromVA]

That Wade lineup with Hunter was his most effective, though.

Wade could be the 3 in those lines, hard to say; it is matchup dependent.

No it's not.

BBR only lists Hunter's top 10 lineups in terms of minutes on his player page, when we go to the team page we can see one of his other top lineups in terms of +/- features Allen and Mobley.

However you slice it, two of Hunter's best lineups has him slotted at SF.

The addition of Larry in addition to Wade should be welcome if they can stay healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

That Wade lineup with Hunter was his most effective, though.

Wade could be the 3 in those lines, hard to say; it is matchup dependent.

No it's not.

Yes, it is.

As a Cav, Hunter is playing PF 71% of the time.

[JonFromVA]

Wade could be the 3 in those lines, hard to say; it is matchup dependent.

No it's not.

Yes, it is.

As a Cav, Hunter is playing PF 71% of the time.

Wade is listed as taller than Hunter so the lineup data will count Hunter as a SF in lineups with Wade and Mobley or Allen.

So, even with those minutes counting as him playing SF, you're correct KA is using Hunter in a lot of small ball lineups even in the playoffs.

I don't believe that's what's being disputed though.

When you look at the Net PP100 column in that lineup data, it's questionable whether those small ball lineups are effective. For instance, we've used Hunter a lot with Jerome-Merrill-Mitchell-Mobley and they were -0.1 in the regular season and -3.1 in the playoffs.

[JujitsuFlip]

No it's not.

Yes, it is.

As a Cav, Hunter is playing PF 71% of the time.

Wade is listed as taller than Hunter so the lineup data will count Hunter as a SF in lineups with Wade and Mobley or Allen.

So, even with those minutes counting as him playing SF, you're correct KA is using Hunter in a lot of small ball lineups even in the playoffs.

I don't believe that's what's being disputed though.

When you look at the Net PP100 column in that lineup data, it's questionable whether those small ball lineups are effective. For instance, we've used Hunter a lot with Jerome-Merrill-Mitchell-Mobley and they were -0.1 in the regular season and -3.1 in the playoffs.

I'm not saying Hunter is or should be a PF, I'm just saying that is how Atkinson utilizes him on the Cavs... For better or worse.

[JonFromVA]

Yes, it is.

As a Cav, Hunter is playing PF 71% of the time.

Wade is listed as taller than Hunter so the lineup data will count Hunter as a SF in lineups with Wade and Mobley or Allen.

So, even with those minutes counting as him playing SF, you're correct KA is using Hunter in a lot of small ball lineups even in the playoffs.

I don't believe that's what's being disputed though.

When you look at the Net PP100 column in that lineup data, it's questionable whether those small ball lineups are effective. For instance, we've used Hunter a lot with Jerome-Merrill-Mitchell-Mobley and they were -0.1 in the regular season and -3.1 in the playoffs.

I'm not saying Hunter is or should be a PF, I'm just saying that is how Atkinson utilizes him on the Cavs... For better or worse.

Yep, but when jbk says Hunter isn't a PF, he means he doesn't fulfill the roles of a PF. Of course sacrificing paint defense and rebounding for switchability and shooting can work, but the evidence of that is not good.

But maybe we're just going too small with Jerome, Merrill, and Strus....

[JujitsuFlip]

Wade is listed as taller than Hunter so the lineup data will count Hunter as a SF in lineups with Wade and Mobley or Allen.

So, even with those minutes counting as him playing SF, you're correct KA is using Hunter in a lot of small ball lineups even in the playoffs.

I don't believe that's what's being disputed though.

When you look at the Net PP100 column in that lineup data, it's questionable whether those small ball lineups are effective. For instance, we've used Hunter a lot with Jerome-Merrill-Mitchell-Mobley and they were -0.1 in the regular season and -3.1 in the playoffs.

I'm not saying Hunter is or should be a PF, I'm just saying that is how Atkinson utilizes him on the Cavs... For better or worse.

Yep, but when jbk says Hunter isn't a PF, he means he doesn't fulfill the roles of a PF. Of course sacrificing paint defense and rebounding for switchability and shooting can work, but the evidence of that is not good.

But maybe we're just going too small with Jerome, Merrill, and Strus....

We knew that prior to trading for him though lol

It's not like the guy was some rebounding maestro then arrived in CLE and all of a sudden forgot how to rebound.

I like Hunter, he's just not the starting SF we thought we were trading for. So now Atkinson brings him off the bench as the primary back-up 4.

[JonFromVA]

I'm not saying Hunter is or should be a PF, I'm just saying that is how Atkinson utilizes him on the Cavs... For better or worse.

Yep, but when jbk says Hunter isn't a PF, he means he doesn't fulfill the roles of a PF. Of course sacrificing paint defense and rebounding for switchability and shooting can work, but the evidence of that is not good.

But maybe we're just going too small with Jerome, Merrill, and Strus....

We knew that prior to trading for him though lol

It's not like the guy was some rebounding maestro then arrived in CLE and all of a sudden forgot how to rebound.

I like Hunter, he's just not the starting SF we thought we were trading for. So now Atkinson brings him off the bench as the primary back-up 4.

*shrugs* The only reason I'd be hesitant about starting Hunter at SF is due to his injury history and because no matter what you call him his length is helpful when Allen (or Mobley) sits.

[jbk1234]

I'm not saying Hunter is or should be a PF, I'm just saying that is how Atkinson utilizes him on the Cavs... For better or worse.

Yep, but when jbk says Hunter isn't a PF, he means he doesn't fulfill the roles of a PF. Of course sacrificing paint defense and rebounding for switchability and shooting can work, but the evidence of that is not good.

But maybe we're just going too small with Jerome, Merrill, and Strus....

We knew that prior to trading for him though lol

It's not like the guy was some rebounding maestro then arrived in CLE and all of a sudden forgot how to rebound.

I like Hunter, he's just not the starting SF we thought we were trading for. So now Atkinson brings him off the bench as the primary back-up 4.

Atkinson said he preferred Hunter off the bench because the Cavs needed his scoring in the second unit. Regardless of whether he starts or comes in as a sixth man type, it's time to stop playing him at PF so much and surrendering so much size at every position. He's better out of SF.

Atkinson needs to experiment with different pace adjusted lineups this season so we can grind the game down to a crawl with second units when players need rest. There's more than one way to combat injuries.

[JujitsuFlip]

Yep, but when jbk says Hunter isn't a PF, he means he doesn't fulfill the roles of a PF. Of course sacrificing paint defense and rebounding for switchability and shooting can work, but the evidence of that is not good.

But maybe we're just going too small with Jerome, Merrill, and Strus....

We knew that prior to trading for him though lol

It's not like the guy was some rebounding maestro then arrived in CLE and all of a sudden forgot how to rebound.

I like Hunter, he's just not the starting SF we thought we were trading for. So now Atkinson brings him off the bench as the primary back-up 4.

Atkinson said he preferred Hunter off the bench because the Cavs needed his scoring in the second unit. Regardless of whether he starts or comes in as a sixth man type, it's time to stop playing him at PF so much and surrendering so much size at every position. He's better out of SF.

Atkinson needs to experiment with different pace adjusted lineups this season so we can grind the game down to a crawl with second units when players need rest. There's more than one way to combat injuries.

There's not really a great alternative.

The only other 2 guys who can play 4 on the roster are Wade and LNJ who are both made of glass. Also, neither guy is much bigger than Hunter, if at all.

[jbk1234]

We knew that prior to trading for him though lol

It's not like the guy was some rebounding maestro then arrived in CLE and all of a sudden forgot how to rebound.

I like Hunter, he's just not the starting SF we thought we were trading for. So now Atkinson brings him off the bench as the primary back-up 4.

Atkinson said he preferred Hunter off the bench because the Cavs needed his scoring in the second unit. Regardless of whether he starts or comes in as a sixth man type, it's time to stop playing him at PF so much and surrendering so much size at every position. He's better out of SF.

Atkinson needs to experiment with different pace adjusted lineups this season so we can grind the game down to a crawl with second units when players need rest. There's more than one way to combat injuries.

There's not really a great alternative.

The only other 2 guys who can play 4 on the roster are Wade and LNJ who are both made of glass. Also, neither guy is much bigger than Hunter, if at all.

Wade is listed as bigger and looks decidedly taller when they're out there together. Let Nance and Wade play backup PF. I can't believe we might actually go into another season without a credible backup center - for the 4th season in a row since the Mitchell trade.

There's a good chance that we end up facing the Knicks who have KAT and Robinson. We've gotten pushed around for three postseasons in a row, and one way you prevent that is by having as much, or more size on the court than the other team.

I get the allure of playing 4 out, plus Allen, or even 5 out with Mobley, but it doesn't have to be to be the permanent default setting. We've shown very little versatility under two different coaching staffs now. With the sole exception of the 3-2 zone in Game 3, we seem unable to throw different looks at our opponents and that makes us very easy to coach against.

[JujitsuFlip]

Atkinson said he preferred Hunter off the bench because the Cavs needed his scoring in the second unit. Regardless of whether he starts or comes in as a sixth man type, it's time to stop playing him at PF so much and surrendering so much size at every position. He's better out of SF.

Atkinson needs to experiment with different pace adjusted lineups this season so we can grind the game down to a crawl with second units when players need rest. There's more than one way to combat injuries.

There's not really a great alternative.

The only other 2 guys who can play 4 on the roster are Wade and LNJ who are both made of glass. Also, neither guy is much bigger than Hunter, if at all.

Wade is listed as bigger and looks decidedly taller when they're out there together. Let Nance and Wade play backup PF. I can't believe we might actually go into another season without a credible backup center - for the 4th season in a row since the Mitchell trade.

There's a good chance that we end up facing the Knicks who have KAT and Robinson. We've gotten pushed around for three postseasons in a row, and one way you prevent that is by having as much, or more size on the court than the other team.

I get the allure of playing 4 out, plus Allen, or even 5 out with Mobley, but it doesn't have to be to be the permanent default setting. We've shown very little versatility under two different coaching staffs now. With the sole exception of the 3-2 zone in Game 3, we seem unable to throw different looks at our opponents and that makes us very easy to coach against.

Wade is 1 inch taller and 7 pounds heavier, if Hunter is too small to play 4 then so is Wade.

It would actually be the 5th season in a row though, without the Mitchell qualifier.

I can't fault Kenny, when 4 of your top 5 guys are out or limited, ya do what ya can. If Hunter and Mobley don't get hurt in the 4th quarter of game 1, that's anyone's game. If the refs do their job, the game 2 collapse isn't even possible. We won game 3. No guarantee we win the series but we have yet to see this team healthy in 4 post seasons in a row.

[toooskies]

There's not really a great alternative.

The only other 2 guys who can play 4 on the roster are Wade and LNJ who are both made of glass. Also, neither guy is much bigger than Hunter, if at all.

Wade is listed as bigger and looks decidedly taller when they're out there together. Let Nance and Wade play backup PF. I can't believe we might actually go into another season without a credible backup center - for the 4th season in a row since the Mitchell trade.

There's a good chance that we end up facing the Knicks who have KAT and Robinson. We've gotten pushed around for three postseasons in a row, and one way you prevent that is by having as much, or more size on the court than the other team.

I get the allure of playing 4 out, plus Allen, or even 5 out with Mobley, but it doesn't have to be to be the permanent default setting. We've shown very little versatility under two different coaching staffs now. With the sole exception of the 3-2 zone in Game 3, we seem unable to throw different looks at our opponents and that makes us very easy to coach against.

Wade is 1 inch taller and 7 pounds heavier, if Hunter is too small to play 4 then so is Wade.

It would actually be the 5th season in a row though, without the Mitchell qualifier.

I can't fault Kenny, when 4 of your top 5 guys are out or limited, ya do what ya can. If Hunter and Mobley don't get hurt in the 4th quarter of game 1, that's anyone's game. If the refs do their job, the game 2 collapse isn't even possible. We won game 3. No guarantee we win the series but we have yet to see this team healthy in 4 post seasons in a row.

Listed weights aren't very accurate for NBA players. Sometimes they haven't been updated since a player's rookie season.

I would say most of Wade's advantage at the 4 is skill-based rather than size-based regardless. He's more comfortable defending the 4 and turning to get rebounds than Hunter typically is.

A significant portion of playoff teams lose due to injury.

[JonFromVA]

Wade is listed as bigger and looks decidedly taller when they're out there together. Let Nance and Wade play backup PF. I can't believe we might actually go into another season without a credible backup center - for the 4th season in a row since the Mitchell trade.

There's a good chance that we end up facing the Knicks who have KAT and Robinson. We've gotten pushed around for three postseasons in a row, and one way you prevent that is by having as much, or more size on the court than the other team.

I get the allure of playing 4 out, plus Allen, or even 5 out with Mobley, but it doesn't have to be to be the permanent default setting. We've shown very little versatility under two different coaching staffs now. With the sole exception of the 3-2 zone in Game 3, we seem unable to throw different looks at our opponents and that makes us very easy to coach against.

Wade is 1 inch taller and 7 pounds heavier, if Hunter is too small to play 4 then so is Wade.

It would actually be the 5th season in a row though, without the Mitchell qualifier.

I can't fault Kenny, when 4 of your top 5 guys are out or limited, ya do what ya can. If Hunter and Mobley don't get hurt in the 4th quarter of game 1, that's anyone's game. If the refs do their job, the game 2 collapse isn't even possible. We won game 3. No guarantee we win the series but we have yet to see this team healthy in 4 post seasons in a row.

Listed weights aren't very accurate for NBA players. Sometimes they haven't been updated since a player's rookie season.

I would say most of Wade's advantage at the 4 is skill-based rather than size-based regardless. He's more comfortable defending the 4 and turning to get rebounds than Hunter typically is.

A significant portion of playoff teams lose due to injury.

The NBA started updating player's measurements at the beginning of every season maybe 10 years ago or so?

Albeit they've been known to get distracted from their various initiatives, and a player that isn't at a weigh in at the beginning of the season could slip through potentially.

[toooskies]

Wade is 1 inch taller and 7 pounds heavier, if Hunter is too small to play 4 then so is Wade.

It would actually be the 5th season in a row though, without the Mitchell qualifier.

I can't fault Kenny, when 4 of your top 5 guys are out or limited, ya do what ya can. If Hunter and Mobley don't get hurt in the 4th quarter of game 1, that's anyone's game. If the refs do their job, the game 2 collapse isn't even possible. We won game 3. No guarantee we win the series but we have yet to see this team healthy in 4 post seasons in a row.

Listed weights aren't very accurate for NBA players. Sometimes they haven't been updated since a player's rookie season.

I would say most of Wade's advantage at the 4 is skill-based rather than size-based regardless. He's more comfortable defending the 4 and turning to get rebounds than Hunter typically is.

A significant portion of playoff teams lose due to injury.

The NBA started updating player's measurements at the beginning of every season maybe 10 years ago or so?

Albeit they've been known to get distracted from their various initiatives, and a player that isn't at a weigh in at the beginning of the season could slip through potentially.

That happened and then it fell off pretty much immediately. Evan Mobley is still listed at his rookie year weight.

[JonFromVA]

Listed weights aren't very accurate for NBA players. Sometimes they haven't been updated since a player's rookie season.

I would say most of Wade's advantage at the 4 is skill-based rather than size-based regardless. He's more comfortable defending the 4 and turning to get rebounds than Hunter typically is.

A significant portion of playoff teams lose due to injury.

The NBA started updating player's measurements at the beginning of every season maybe 10 years ago or so?

Albeit they've been known to get distracted from their various initiatives, and a player that isn't at a weigh in at the beginning of the season could slip through potentially.

That happened and then it fell off pretty much immediately. Evan Mobley is still listed at his rookie year weight.

Mystery solved. The Cavs were never required to report weights. (According to a non-authorized source )

From 2019:

The league, however, is not insisting on team-certified weight listings because weight can so easily fluctuate, according to one person briefed on the new guidelines but not authorized to discuss them publicly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/26/sports/basketball/nba-height-age.html

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.nba.com/news/offseason-power-rankings-east-2025

Awesome lil stat from coach to coach.

[Cavs] saw the league’s biggest jump in player movement, averaging 11.8 miles traveled per 24 minutes of possessions (seventh most), up from 10.3 (29th) in 2023-24. They had the league’s sixth-biggest jump in ball movement and its fourth-biggest jump in pace and saw its fourth-biggest drop in turnover rate.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2025/07/playing-the-long-game-why-the-cavs-are-in-no-rush-to-fill-their-14th-roster-spot.html?outputType=amp

Fedor says the Cavs are in no rush to fill spot 14. Follows it up by saying whoever fills it essentially has no role on the Cavs.

Cavs have left spot 15 open for years now but doing the same with 14 feels risky. But hey, when a team is this far into the 2nd apron, you find your 13 and just deal with whatever injuries may come.