Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[WolfAddict]

Suggs is a poor fit imo - Not a good shot (outside his flamethrower season) and isn't a pass first PG (which is what we need imo).

As BlacJac says, solid on the defensive end, but doesn't move the needle on the offence.

[KGdaBom]

Easy, and DDV more than Williams.

Interesting. I have…

Williams>DDV>Randle>Suggs

Grant Williams, right?

I don't get the appeal. He's a good 3pt shooter, seems to be an OK-ish defender and as an undersized PF, he makes Naz and Randle look like good rebounders in comparison.

Plus he's coming off an ACL tear.

I'd probably go Randle>DDV>Williams>Suggs

That's my order. or you can switch WIlliams and Suggs.

[KGdaBom]

Does Garlands injury make him available?

IF we can trade Julius, I would offer DDV and RD along with him. Possibly 3way trade with Heat, as they have been interested in Randle for a while.

I would think all his injuries, plus his contract and his postseason play would make him definitely available.

Randle, DDV, and Dilly for Garland. It just boggles my brain how we want to give away our players.

[Klomp]

There just aren't many perfect fits out there. And the ones who are would likely come with a hefty price tag.

[cmoss84]

Does Garlands injury make him available?

IF we can trade Julius, I would offer DDV and RD along with him. Possibly 3way trade with Heat, as they have been interested in Randle for a while.

I would think all his injuries, plus his contract and his postseason play would make him definitely available.

Randle, DDV, and Dilly for Garland. It just boggles my brain how we want to give away our players.

Again, we would get more than Garland. For example, could look something like this:

Cle IN: Wiggins, RD, Jovic
Cle OUT: Garland

Mia IN: Randle, DDV, Miller
Mia OUT: Wiggins, JJJr, Jovic, Highsmith, Johnson

MN IN: Garland, JJJr, Highsmith, Johnson
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, RD, Miller

[KGdaBom]

I would think all his injuries, plus his contract and his postseason play would make him definitely available.

Randle, DDV, and Dilly for Garland. It just boggles my brain how we want to give away our players.

Again, we would get more than Garland. For example, could look something like this:

Cle IN: Wiggins, RD, Jovic
Cle OUT: Garland

Mia IN: Randle, DDV, Miller
Mia OUT: Wiggins, JJJr, Jovic, Highsmith, Johnson

MN IN: Garland, JJJr, Highsmith, Johnson
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, RD, Miller

Who is JJJr? The only one I know with those initials plays PF/C for Memphis. I'd take him in that deal. You must mean Jaime Jaquez Jr. No thank you. Highsmith and Johnson no thank you.

[cmoss84]

Randle, DDV, and Dilly for Garland. It just boggles my brain how we want to give away our players.

Again, we would get more than Garland. For example, could look something like this:

Cle IN: Wiggins, RD, Jovic
Cle OUT: Garland

Mia IN: Randle, DDV, Miller
Mia OUT: Wiggins, JJJr, Jovic, Highsmith, Johnson

MN IN: Garland, JJJr, Highsmith, Johnson
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, RD, Miller

Who is JJJr? The only one I know with those initials plays PF/C for Memphis. I'd take him in that deal. You must mean Jaime Jaquez Jr. No thank you. Highsmith and Johnson no thank you.

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

[Klomp]

I don't know how we could make it legal, but I'd be interested if we could figure out a way to turn DiVincenzo into Quentin Grimes.

[BlacJacMac]

Again, we would get more than Garland. For example, could look something like this:

Cle IN: Wiggins, RD, Jovic
Cle OUT: Garland

Mia IN: Randle, DDV, Miller
Mia OUT: Wiggins, JJJr, Jovic, Highsmith, Johnson

MN IN: Garland, JJJr, Highsmith, Johnson
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, RD, Miller

Who is JJJr? The only one I know with those initials plays PF/C for Memphis. I'd take him in that deal. You must mean Jaime Jaquez Jr. No thank you. Highsmith and Johnson no thank you.

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

[cmoss84]

Who is JJJr? The only one I know with those initials plays PF/C for Memphis. I'd take him in that deal. You must mean Jaime Jaquez Jr. No thank you. Highsmith and Johnson no thank you.

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

My main guys are Randle, DDV, Rob, and Rudy. I like them all. A lot. But they are all valuable trade chips, and unless we balance our roster and cap, we not passing OKC.

[KGdaBom]

Again, we would get more than Garland. For example, could look something like this:

Cle IN: Wiggins, RD, Jovic
Cle OUT: Garland

Mia IN: Randle, DDV, Miller
Mia OUT: Wiggins, JJJr, Jovic, Highsmith, Johnson

MN IN: Garland, JJJr, Highsmith, Johnson
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, RD, Miller

Who is JJJr? The only one I know with those initials plays PF/C for Memphis. I'd take him in that deal. You must mean Jaime Jaquez Jr. No thank you. Highsmith and Johnson no thank you.

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

I have zero, zip, zilch, nada, no, none interest in JJJr, Highsmith and Johnson. Only small interest in Garland. I really like Randle, DDV, and Dilly. I consider this trade proposal beyond ridiculously bad.

[KGdaBom]

I don't know how we could make it legal, but I'd be interested if we could figure out a way to turn DiVincenzo into Quentin Grimes.

Last I checked DDV was very superior to Grimes. Did Grimes figure out how to play basketball over the last year?

[KGdaBom]

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

My main guys are Randle, DDV, Rob, and Rudy. I like them all. A lot. But they are all valuable trade chips, and unless we balance our roster and cap, we not passing OKC.

But your proposals have us giving up far more than we get back. That is not a blueprint for passing OKC.

[Domejandro]

I don't know how we could make it legal, but I'd be interested if we could figure out a way to turn DiVincenzo into Quentin Grimes.

Last I checked DDV was very superior to Grimes. Did Grimes figure out how to play basketball over the last year?

For what it is worth, he averaged 22/5/4.5 on decent efficiency over 28 games to close out the season with Philadelphia. It is really a question of whether or not that is sustainable.

The big issue is that the reason that Philadelphia hasn't resigned Quentin Grimes yet is that he is in a similar position of wanting more money than they are offering (similar situation to Josh Giddey in Chicago). I don't see a good pathway, barring picking up his Qualifying-Offer.

[cmoss84]

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

My main guys are Randle, DDV, Rob, and Rudy. I like them all. A lot. But they are all valuable trade chips, and unless we balance our roster and cap, we not passing OKC.

But your proposals have us giving up far more than we get back. That is not a blueprint for passing OKC.

To each their own. Cheers brother.

[KGdaBom]

I don't know how we could make it legal, but I'd be interested if we could figure out a way to turn DiVincenzo into Quentin Grimes.

Last I checked DDV was very superior to Grimes. Did Grimes figure out how to play basketball over the last year?

For what it is worth, he averaged 22/5/4.5 on decent efficiency over 28 games to close out the season with Philadelphia. It is really a question of whether or not that is sustainable.

The big issue is that the reason that Philadelphia hasn't resigned Quentin Grimes yet is that he is in a similar position of wanting more money than they are offering (similar situation to Josh Giddey in Chicago). I don't see a good pathway, barring picking up his Qualifying-Offer.

I guess he was given opportunity and took advantage of it. IIRC he's a solid defender or has that changed.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I know nothing about him other than his faja is Anthony. Why you guys like him? He seems to not be able to shoot worth a lick.

Can't speak to Devilz, but I was a fan predraft.

He's got good size for a combo, 1/2 guard. He rebounded the hell out of the ball in college, which is typically a great indicator of future success in the NBA for guards, and he's a tenacious defender. The offence is a bit of a work in progress and he's probably never a true PG but I can see him being one of those guys you can slot into a lot of different lineups with success.

He's 6'3 with a 6'9 wingspan and a 42" vertical. He pulled down 8.7 rebounds in 35 MPG as a Jr. That's crazy.

He also shot the hell out of the ball that year: 47/38/75. But that kind of came out of nowhere. He was 43/30/72 the previous year and 42/27/69 his Fr. year.

Had an unimpressive rookie year as a 22 year-old - but he was a positive on defense.

I like him as a possible buy-low prospect. His archetype always seems to suffer on a team like Sacramento because glue guy traits aren't gonna pop when you're missing the basics. I also like that he and Derozan were their best 2 man lineup. That makes me think that if we got him on our team playing next to some stronger gravity players, that his game might start being more positively noticeable.

Idk what proper value is exactly - Sac over-drafting him in 24 might make them want more than what his realistic value is. And his salary isn't the easiest match either.

[shrink]

Rank pgs...just for fun and if you think they are actually attainable, put a * next to them.

1. SGA
2. Hali
3. Cunningham
4. Brunson
5. Morant
6. Vanvleet
7. Young
8. Maxey
9. Fox
10. Murray (Denver)
11. Murray (NO)
12. Garland
13. Ball
14. Kyrie

I am sure I spaced out and left people off, after that it seems like it nose dives to young guys (unproven), old old guys (crafty vets), or plain old avg guys.

Good list, I think you could add Luka, Steph Curry, Lillard (next year) and Herro, who are de facto point guards. And this doesn’t include players like Jokic, when players at other positions act as offensive hubs - the role PGs used to have exclusively. It is my hope that Ant can become a better creator for others, decreasing our need for a true, star, point guard.

Positions of talent change over time, and we are really in an era where there are several dominant point guards. An average (15th best) point guard is still a star.

Economically, this means the market is saturated with point guards. Want to trade one? You may be trading a star, but most teams aren’t buyers - they already have one. This should lower the price to add a star player, and simultaneously make the value of good players at positions with less star talent have more trade value (like PF Randle).

Yeah, Curry for sure...no idea how I forgot him.

I guess I don't see Luka or Joker as PG, though they initiate offense quite a bit.

Your point about market saturation makes sense, the problem is when the resources are valuable commodities, people aren't willing to give them up. As an example, we might identify 15 to 20 solid starting point guards, but why would a team give up arguably the most important position on the roster without getting a substantial upgrade back? I would also argue, I think point guard is probably one of the least saturated positions in the market. Center is probably the least saturated position, then point guard, I think wings (SG, SF, PF) are easily the most saturated.

I think market saturation is one of the reasons we haven’t seen the available Garland traded.

We should add Josh Giddey to the list too, and it’s likely why his agent can’t find a better deal for leverage elsewhere.

[BlacJacMac]

They are not stars, but solid rotational pieces. Trust me, all minutes are covered.

PG: Garland, Mike, Vet min
SG: Ant, TSJ, Clark
SF: Jaden, TSJ, JJJr
PF: Naz, Highsmith, Johnson
C: Rudy, JB, 2WAYS

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

My main guys are Randle, DDV, Rob, and Rudy. I like them all. A lot. But they are all valuable trade chips, and unless we balance our roster and cap, we not passing OKC.

How does this trade do that?

Garland would get destroyed by OKC. And other wise you've replaced Randle with a swing forward that only brings 3pt shooting to the party and added a 3rd string SF.

[KGdaBom]

It feels like a lot of your trades are more about getting rid of players you don't like than actually improving the team.

My main guys are Randle, DDV, Rob, and Rudy. I like them all. A lot. But they are all valuable trade chips, and unless we balance our roster and cap, we not passing OKC.

How does this trade do that?

Garland would get destroyed by OKC. And other wise you've replaced Randle with a swing forward that only brings 3pt shooting to the party and added a 3rd string SF.

I think it's all about knowing the flaws of our players and not knowing the flaws of their players.