Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[bay2hk]

I am 100% on JK camp now. Dubs so disrespectful. 2nd year team option?

I hope JK just take the QO now!

Good!! He’s not worth $27.3m per annum like his agent is asking. One year rental of JK at $7.9m is better than being stock with a bloated Poole like contract.

Said part is... Dubs don't really wants him to sign the QO. And if does happen, this is worse than either Suns or Kings trade. And this one year rental is a joke... almost every NBA analyst says this is a distraction for the team the whole season.

And if this contract offer is on the table, JK will eventually get DNP-CD even if he signs. How are they going to get a better offer than Kings/Suns trash?

You know either: Kerr says.. F Lacob, and never play JK. Or JK will be his old self and goes there anyways. So you are saying... this is GOOD? Would have been better letting go for nothing if that is part of the journey. And it IS nothing if JK signs QO. And oh thanks for the distraction? When JK signs his QO, might as well tell him to sit at home. Even if he signs that offer, who says DNP-CD and distraction doesn't happen anyways.

Don't worry about JK making money, no one offered him the money you talked about. Worry about Dubs F'ing themselves being petty and wasting a year of Curry. Curry is all that matters at the end of the day for us fans.

JK might have signed the contract if it was 1+1 with player option. But this team option is petty. And now JK might f#$# around with the QO on 10/1 and no sooner. Great. Allow negotiation to go Nuclear.

Ball is on JK’s court. Warriors gave their best offer and it’s up to JK to accept that or the QO. JK is a lost cause and Warriors shouldn’t offer above market contract because of FOMO. Pay JK the least amount possible if he is going to leave eventually.

I say keep JK at a one year rental if he’s not taking our offer because it’s better than any available options currently in the market, and if JK f’s around next season he is playing with his career earnings. Bet he will be on his best behavior unless he gets DNPs.

[statsman]

Just handshake the agreements now for a deadline deal.

Jk to the kings on a 1+1. Kings promise to extend him 4/100 after the season. Its where jk wants to go and the kings want him. Waiving the ntc to go where he wants.

Demar to the Heat. Apparently theres already a handshake agreement in place. Again, its mutual.

Warriors get wiggins or rozier (to flip somewhere else for someone we need) + protected 1st from the kings.

Its clean and simple and everyone gets what they want.

That's not what Lacob wants. I can almost guarantee it. At that point, there's not much to discuss.

The Kings would have to careful because, even with a handshake agreement, Kuminga would be an unrestricted FA after opting out. Things can go south with a team. Also, the salary for this season needs to be decent because the Kings would be limited to a 20% raise for season two using his (at that time) non-Bird rights.

Note: Technically, a S&T with full Bird rights (Warriors) needs to be for 3 or 4 seasons. Only the first season needs to be guaranteed. Just pointing out why a 1+1 can't happen on a S&T for Kuminga.

[vvoland]

Kuminga is perhaps the best trade asset the Warriors have, at least at his perceived value. If he signs the QO, that value diminishes to $8M. Not much trade value in that, especially since (a) Kuminga has the right of trade refusal; and (b) the acquiring team would not retain his Bird right, making him non-Bird status (max of 120% raise using the non-Bird Exception in 2026-27: $9.6M; would need cap space to offer more or the NTMLE).

A S&T is not going to return much salary either, because of Kuminga's BYC status and the desire for the Warriors to not hard cap themselves at the first apron. If the Warriors believe Kuminga is worth, say, $22M this season, they immediately lose at least $11M of trade value on a S&T. It would take a miracle by MDJ for a S&T to be worth it to the Warriors.

I am not a fan of Kuminga's game. Haven't been since a few months into his rookie season. That said, I think the Warriors will need to drop the team option second year and make both seasons guaranteed. He would become a tradable asset. I just don't know if that's enough to convince Kuminga to stay with the team. His preference is to be gone. Must be a punch to the gut for Lacob.

You would really tank the season with bringing back a malcontent over 11M in salary ballast?

Your characterization of him as a 'malcontent' is based solely on his negotiating stance? Not accepting a 2/45 while giving the team an option AND waiving the inherent NTC that it comes with being the pinnacle of "malcontent" behavior, in this example. Or is it taking calls with the Kings FO? Or salter reporting that JK feels like the org stunted his growth the last 4 years. I'm genuinely curious why you've labeled him a 'malcontent' but when dray was out getting offers from the griz and pistons, he was not.

[EvanZ]

If I were the Kings I'd just roll with Devin Carter, Keon Ellis and Nique Clifford in the starting lineup. DDR and LaVine can suck it and negotiate buyouts if they want.

[Onus]

Kuminga is perhaps the best trade asset the Warriors have, at least at his perceived value. If he signs the QO, that value diminishes to $8M. Not much trade value in that, especially since (a) Kuminga has the right of trade refusal; and (b) the acquiring team would not retain his Bird right, making him non-Bird status (max of 120% raise using the non-Bird Exception in 2026-27: $9.6M; would need cap space to offer more or the NTMLE).

A S&T is not going to return much salary either, because of Kuminga's BYC status and the desire for the Warriors to not hard cap themselves at the first apron. If the Warriors believe Kuminga is worth, say, $22M this season, they immediately lose at least $11M of trade value on a S&T. It would take a miracle by MDJ for a S&T to be worth it to the Warriors.

I am not a fan of Kuminga's game. Haven't been since a few months into his rookie season. That said, I think the Warriors will need to drop the team option second year and make both seasons guaranteed. He would become a tradable asset. I just don't know if that's enough to convince Kuminga to stay with the team. His preference is to be gone. Must be a punch to the gut for Lacob.

You would really tank the season with bringing back a malcontent over 11M in salary ballast?

Your characterization of him as a 'malcontent' is based solely on his negotiating stance? Not accepting a 2/45 while giving the team an option AND waiving the inherent NTC that it comes with being the pinnacle of "malcontent" behavior, in this example. Or is it taking calls with the Kings FO? Or salter reporting that JK feels like the org stunted his growth the last 4 years. I'm genuinely curious why you've labeled him a 'malcontent' but when dray was out getting offers from the griz and pistons, he was not.

Malcontent because he doesn't want to be here. Said he wants to be in Sacramento. We've supposedly stunted his growth even though he took the 2nd most shots per game on the team and has a top 40 usage rate in the entire league. We obviously do not want him long term. We obviously are looking to trade him as soon as we can and want to make his contract as easily tradeable as possible that we think it would be better for others to get an expiring contract if they want it. Why would he want to play here? Why would he now conform to team ball when we have no stake in developing him and he has no security that the team is doing right by him. This will only reinforce his isolation habits and selfish basketball. You think if he signs a 2 year guaranteed contract he's going to feel wanted and he's going to change how he plays now? We could barely get him to play team basketball with the hopes for a long term deal and now there's no carrot to get him to play team basketball when he knows he's on his way out. If he comes back I fully expect him to be on his Jordan Poole type behavior in 23. Which was a nightmare.

Why are we holding him hostage? For 11M in salary ballast?

Dray getting offers from other teams the team wasn't saying we don't want you and aren't going to match what you get from another team.

[Onus]

If I were the Kings I'd just roll with Devin Carter, Keon Ellis and Nique Clifford in the starting lineup. DDR and LaVine can suck it and negotiate buyouts if they want.

What about schroder? Keegan?

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[vvoland]

You would really tank the season with bringing back a malcontent over 11M in salary ballast?

Your characterization of him as a 'malcontent' is based solely on his negotiating stance? Not accepting a 2/45 while giving the team an option AND waiving the inherent NTC that it comes with being the pinnacle of "malcontent" behavior, in this example. Or is it taking calls with the Kings FO? Or salter reporting that JK feels like the org stunted his growth the last 4 years. I'm genuinely curious why you've labeled him a 'malcontent' but when dray was out getting offers from the griz and pistons, he was not.

Malcontent because he doesn't want to be here. Said he wants to be in Sacramento. We've supposedly stunted his growth even though he took the 2nd most shots per game on the team and has a top 40 usage rate in the entire league. We obviously do not want him long term. We obviously are looking to trade him as soon as we can and want to make his contract as easily tradeable as possible that we think it would be better for others to get an expiring contract if they want it. Why would he want to play here? Why would he now conform to team ball when we have no stake in developing him and he has no security that the team is doing right by him. This will only reinforce his isolation habits and selfish basketball. You think if he signs a 2 year guaranteed contract he's going to feel wanted and he's going to change how he plays now? We could barely get him to play team basketball with the hopes for a long term deal and now there's no carrot to get him to play team basketball when he knows he's on his way out. If he comes back I fully expect him to be on his Jordan Poole type behavior in 23. Which was a nightmare.

Why are we holding him hostage? For 11M in salary ballast?

Dray getting offers from other teams the team wasn't saying we don't want you and aren't going to match what you get from another team.

The warriors have said nothing of the kind. In fact, no team has made a real offer to JK because they know GSW WILL match. In fact, I'm pretty sure dray and iggy got a bit less to come back here but I could be wrong. Didn't dray say on his pod that mem offered him more money that gsw?

I think you've agreed in the past that playing lamb and gui over JK (and moody) had stunted their growth. You no longer feel that way?

People talk about his isolation and scoring but neglect to mention that he played better w/ Steph & Dray than anyone on the roster not named buddy, particularly with shooters around him. On a team that has an elite defense and real trouble scoring in pressure situations, we don't need him to change how he plays, just adjust around the edges. Obviously a team option in the 2nd year is preferrable, to all parties but JK, so I don't think MDJ is a turd for asking for it, nor is JK one for rejecting it.

We've seen players/teams cut ties with one another during a RFA/UFA period. This does not look like one of those times. I was more convinced Dray and Iggy would leave, considering how those negotiations went, than I have felt about JK's contract, at any point this summer.

[statsman]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Absolutely NOT on that Suns trade. Awful return, and it hard caps the team at the 1st apron. You would think that a GSW CBA account would understand this.

The Kings trade requires the Warriors to move Hield or Moody, and what's going to be the cost to do that? The first round pick coming from the Kings??

Not one talented young player in the bunch. It's no wonder the Warriors have walked away from S&T talks. I think they would rather have Kuminga on the QO than do these trades.

[vvoland]

Read on Twitter

I like Monk but, for this team, Buddy might actually be better. Considering he's half the price and a better contract moving forward, I don't think we need Monk, at least not at the price of our one remaining trade asset.

[Onus]

Your characterization of him as a 'malcontent' is based solely on his negotiating stance? Not accepting a 2/45 while giving the team an option AND waiving the inherent NTC that it comes with being the pinnacle of "malcontent" behavior, in this example. Or is it taking calls with the Kings FO? Or salter reporting that JK feels like the org stunted his growth the last 4 years. I'm genuinely curious why you've labeled him a 'malcontent' but when dray was out getting offers from the griz and pistons, he was not.

Malcontent because he doesn't want to be here. Said he wants to be in Sacramento. We've supposedly stunted his growth even though he took the 2nd most shots per game on the team and has a top 40 usage rate in the entire league. We obviously do not want him long term. We obviously are looking to trade him as soon as we can and want to make his contract as easily tradeable as possible that we think it would be better for others to get an expiring contract if they want it. Why would he want to play here? Why would he now conform to team ball when we have no stake in developing him and he has no security that the team is doing right by him. This will only reinforce his isolation habits and selfish basketball. You think if he signs a 2 year guaranteed contract he's going to feel wanted and he's going to change how he plays now? We could barely get him to play team basketball with the hopes for a long term deal and now there's no carrot to get him to play team basketball when he knows he's on his way out. If he comes back I fully expect him to be on his Jordan Poole type behavior in 23. Which was a nightmare.

Why are we holding him hostage? For 11M in salary ballast?

Dray getting offers from other teams the team wasn't saying we don't want you and aren't going to match what you get from another team.

The warriors have said nothing of the kind. In fact, no team has made a real offer to JK because they know GSW WILL match. In fact, I'm pretty sure dray and iggy got a bit less to come back here but I could be wrong. Didn't dray say on his pod that mem offered him more money that gsw?

I think you've agreed in the past that playing lamb and gui over JK (and moody) had stunted their growth. You no longer feel that way?

People talk about his isolation and scoring but neglect to mention that he played better w/ Steph & Dray than anyone on the roster not named buddy, particularly with shooters around him. On a team that has an elite defense and real trouble scoring in pressure situations, we don't need him to change how he plays, just adjust around the edges. Obviously a team option in the 2nd year is preferrable, to all parties but JK, so I don't think MDJ is a turd for asking for it, nor is JK one for rejecting it.

We've seen players/teams cut ties with one another during a RFA/UFA period. This does not look like one of those times. I was more convinced Dray and Iggy would leave, considering how those negotiations went, than I have felt about JK's contract, at any point this summer.

They got more because Myers was a push over.

If we really wanted JK we would match the Kings/Suns offer of 4/90 and this would be done. But instead we decided to offer a 1+1 with a team option for the same amount, technically we're actually giving him more the 1st 2 years over the 4/90. But really its the fact that we don't want him long term and it's clear to everyone but you. Really the 1+1 with a team option was the signal to me I'm not saying that JK is out of pocket or doing something wrong in this RFA. I'm saying the Warriors don't value him long term anymore and if that's the signal they're giving to JK, JK is going to be lost for the season. He has no reason to listen to Kerr. I don't expect him give up the ball, I expect for him to go even deeper into his isolation habits and playing selfishly because he's not a part of the team long term. Why would we bring back a player that doesn't want to be here, we don't want long term, who can sabotage a season over 11M dollars in salary ballast. It does not make sense. I've always been against bringing jk back to just trade him at the dead line. If the warriors change course and offer the 4/90 instead to at least show that he's a part of the team and long term goal, then I would be fine with bringing him back and all of this is just nonsense. Hell if we offered a 2+1 on player option I'd say this is all nonsense and we can work with JK. But on a 1+1 or a 2 year contract, just get what you can and move on.

No playing time is earned. If you aren't doing what I'm asking you to do, I can't just give you unlimited rope and hope you start doing it. I'm going to play the guys that are going to do what they're being asked to do. You do have to come back to them (JK and Moody) and hope that they figure it out. Which I don't think Kerr has been great with. Remember we were playing Acie Law over Steph at some point.

Everyone wants him to change his game but you and JK. All of his contested midrange shots that he takes without passing the ball with over 14 sec left on the shot clock need to go. He's not a good creator or initiator unless there's a physical mismatch. If he actually got off the ball and was willing to just attack seams that are created for him he'd be really useful for us.

It's funny I actually rewatched that late portland game that supposedly got Steve so mad that he benched him for the last few games and there was nothing egregious. It felt like a normal JK type game. He had a 5 games stretch out of 47 games where it finally clicked for him, but then got hurt.

[Onus]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Absolutely NOT on that Suns trade. Awful return, and it hard caps the team at the 1st apron. You would think that a GSW CBA account would understand this.

The Kings trade requires the Warriors to move Hield or Moody, and what's going to be the cost to do that? The first round pick coming from the Kings??

Not one talented young player in the bunch. It's no wonder the Warriors have walked away from S&T talks. I think they would rather have Kuminga on the QO than do these trades.

These trades are terrible.

Probably need to include the Jazz or Nets to take on salary in a 3 or 4 team deal to make salaries work now, which means someone will have to give up value for them to use their cap space which will no longer go to us.

We waited too long and made trades even harder now. This has not been a good rfa showing by MDJ.

[HiRez]

The official review of the Warriors' offseason is out:

Watch on YouTube

;list=RDtWqKiqTfXuA&index=1

[statsman]

We waited too long and made trades even harder now. This has not been a good rfa showing by MDJ Lacob.

Fix it for you. Nearly every decision made (or more exactly, not made) has been because of Lacob's desire to stay out of a 1st apron hard cap so he can trade for Giannis. If left solely to MDJ, Kerr, and Curry, I'm betting this offseason would have been different.

[Onus]

We waited too long and made trades even harder now. This has not been a good rfa showing by MDJ Lacob.

Fix it for you. Nearly every decision made (or more exactly, not made) has been because of Lacob's desire to stay out of a 1st apron hard cap so he can trade for Giannis. If left solely to MDJ, Kerr, and Curry, I'm betting this offseason would have been different.

Very possible but this is going on MDJ's record. Crazy that we're trying to keep avenues open for a Giannis trade. That's why you been so adamant that we dont get hard capped at the 1st apron. Makes sense now.

[vvoland]

They got more because Myers was a push over.

If we really wanted JK we would match the Kings/Suns offer of 4/90 and this would be done. But instead we decided to offer a 1+1 with a team option for the same amount, technically we're actually giving him more the 1st 2 years over the 4/90. But really its the fact that we don't want him long term and it's clear to everyone but you. Really the 1+1 with a team option was the signal to me I'm not saying that JK is out of pocket or doing something wrong in this RFA. I'm saying the Warriors don't value him long term anymore and if that's the signal they're giving to JK, JK is going to be lost for the season. He has no reason to listen to Kerr. I don't expect him give up the ball, I expect for him to go even deeper into his isolation habits and playing selfishly because he's not a part of the team long term. Why would we bring back a player that doesn't want to be here, we don't want long term, who can sabotage a season over 11M dollars in salary ballast. It does not make sense. I've always been against bringing jk back to just trade him at the dead line. If the warriors change course and offer the 4/90 instead to at least show that he's a part of the team and long term goal, then I would be fine with bringing him back and all of this is just nonsense. Hell if we offered a 2+1 on player option I'd say this is all nonsense and we can work with JK. But on a 1+1 or a 2 year contract, just get what you can and move on.

No playing time is earned. If you aren't doing what I'm asking you to do, I can't just give you unlimited rope and hope you start doing it. I'm going to play the guys that are going to do what they're being asked to do. You do have to come back to them (JK and Moody) and hope that they figure it out. Which I don't think Kerr has been great with. Remember we were playing Acie Law over Steph at some point.

Everyone wants him to change his game but you and JK. All of his contested midrange shots that he takes without passing the ball with over 14 sec left on the shot clock need to go. He's not a good creator or initiator unless there's a physical mismatch. If he actually got off the ball and was willing to just attack seams that are created for him he'd be really useful for us.

It's funny I actually rewatched that late portland game that supposedly got Steve so mad that he benched him for the last few games and there was nothing egregious. It felt like a normal JK type game. He had a 5 games stretch out of 47 games where it finally clicked for him, but then got hurt.

Here's JK's shot chart for 24-25 (not his best season but I'll use that for recency's sake):
[url]
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630228/shots-dash?SeasonType=Regular+Season[/url]

he takes 1.7 shots per game in the first 6 seconds of the shot clock. We'll call that transition and, I'm sure, you'd want more of that, not less. Especially since he's shooting like 58% from the field on those attempts.

so that leaves 2.3 shots per game that he takes in the 15-18 second range. Those two shots are the reason he's a malcontent and will tank our season? He shoots 45% on those attempts so I don't really think it's dragging down this team. 0.6 of those 2.3 attempts are 3pters and I would hope he could cut those down.

As for the 2.1 shots per game he takes with 7 seconds or less on the clock, they're highly inefficient, which makes sense, considering how hard the defense will make the end of shot clock situation. Do we really want more of that?

Same page shows his shots per dribble: 7.5 of his 12 shots attempts come with 2 or fewer dribbles. That's way more than half. This idea that's he's a head down, pound the rock, iso scorer just isn't well aligned with reality. The table on "touch time range" shows much the same thing: 5.5 of his 12 shots come with 2 or fewer seconds on the ball.

75% of his shots are either C&S (20) or shots within 10 ft. Once every 4 shots he attempts a pull up and if he got that down by half, we'd see a much more efficient player. Folks around here act like he's some lost cause that only cares about empty stats and ball-hogging. I just don't see it.

[TB]

Royce O’Neale would be really good on this team. But i’d want Oso instead of Richards, who I think could have a Looney like career impact.

It’s somewhat funny how everyone seems to think the following two things are true:

1) Kuminga isn’t a great fit and doesn’t have much of a trade market

2) Signing Kuminga to a short contract will all of a sudden provide a ton of trade options down the road

Either fix the relationship and sign him long-term or cut our losses with players like O’Neale and Oso who fit our system and allow us to go sign Horford, Morris, and Melton. We may have a case of sunk cost fallacy going on here.

[Onus]

Same page shows his shots per dribble: 7.5 of his 12 shots attempts come with 2 or fewer dribbles. That's way more than half.

So we're talking about 4.5 shots out of 12. A third of his shots that he needs to re-work. That's a significant change

The table on "touch time range" shows much the same thing: 5.5 of his 12 shots come with 2 or fewer seconds on the ball.

Now we're talking about more than half of his shots ...

[vvoland]

Same page shows his shots per dribble: 7.5 of his 12 shots attempts come with 2 or fewer dribbles. That's way more than half.

So we're talking about 4.5 shots out of 12. A third of his shots that he needs to re-work. That's a significant change

The table on "touch time range" shows much the same thing: 5.5 of his 12 shots come with 2 or fewer seconds on the ball.

Now we're talking about more than half of his shots ...

You realize that a number of those 2+ dribbles are good and/or necessary shots, right? either in transition, w/o steph on the court, late clock, etc?

Same for the shots in the 2-6 second range. Transition, designed post up, starters sitting, etc. I'm not saying they're all good shots but your assumption seems to be he should shoot 0 times per game with 2+ dribbles or 2+ seconds. He's not Tyson Chandler and we don't have the type of offense that would allow him to do only center things. We NEED scoring, often in difficult situation and, outside Steph, we don't have anyone to do that.

according to cleaning the glass, our o/d ratings with:

Steph, no JK - 119.5 vs 114.4 (3600 poss)
JK, no Steph - 112 vs 111.5 (2300 poss)
JK + Steph - 122 vs 114 (1100 poss)

Sucks the best of those 3 combos played 1/7 of the available possession (1100 out of ~7K)

[Onus]

Same page shows his shots per dribble: 7.5 of his 12 shots attempts come with 2 or fewer dribbles. That's way more than half.

So we're talking about 4.5 shots out of 12. A third of his shots that he needs to re-work. That's a significant change

The table on "touch time range" shows much the same thing: 5.5 of his 12 shots come with 2 or fewer seconds on the ball.

Now we're talking about more than half of his shots ...

You realize that a number of those 2+ dribbles are good and/or necessary shots, right? either in transition, w/o steph on the court, late clock, etc?

Same for the shots in the 2-6 second range. Transition, designed post up, starters sitting, etc. I'm not saying they're all good shots but your assumption seems to be he should shoot 0 times per game with 2+ dribbles or 2+ seconds. He's not Tyson Chandler and we don't have the type of offense that would allow him to do only center things. We NEED scoring, often in difficult situation and, outside Steph, we don't have anyone to do that.

according to cleaning the glass, our o/d ratings with:

Steph, no JK - 119.5 vs 114.4 (3600 poss)
JK, no Steph - 112 vs 111.5 (2300 poss)
JK + Steph - 122 vs 114 (1100 poss)

Sucks the best of those 3 combos played 1/7 of the available possession (1100 out of ~7K)

JK would be a lot better if he played like Tyson Chandler or you know the player Kerr wants him to play like Shawn Marion or Aaron Gordon. Will he have to take some bailout shots sure.

JK no Steph shows you that he isn't really good at creating offense.

Can he take advantage of the space Steph creates? Yes. Is that useful yes. But if he's going to be calling his own number over Steph then those numbers would plummet.

Pull up any game and there will likely be 3-4 shots that are just not good shots. Add in the fts that he does get and it's probably even more, not that drawing fts is bad but still not good offense. Then add in the turnovers as well when he drives into traffic and yells "aaayyyee". Now that's probably like 8 possessions in 25 mpg. That's almost 15% of the total possessions in a game if you were to do that for an entire game. You think we're that much better than other teams that we can just throw away 15% of our possessions?