Raptors Roster Fit and Cap Reset - Trade Concepts for Barrett, Ingram, Barnes

[Godaddycurse]

LOL - leave detroit out of this hot mess. We could have had ingram for a mediocre 1st if we wanted him, and that was before he got overpaid.

Hes paid less per percentage of the cap than before his extension. If you didnt think he was overpaid before then why is he suddenly overpaid now?

I’m sure he’s talking about the new contract Ingram signed w Toronto. His Pelicans contract was for much less.

I'm taking about the same thing. The new contract signed with Toronto is for lower percentage of the salary cap than his contract w/ pelicans

percentage of the cap of his prior contract vs now

w/ NOP
20-21 25%
21-22 26.2%
22-23 25.6%
23-24 24.9%
24-25 25.6%

w/ TOR
25-26 24.6%
26-27 23.5%
27-28 22.4%

[Texas Chuck]

LOL - leave detroit out of this hot mess. We could have had ingram for a mediocre 1st if we wanted him, and that was before he got overpaid.

Hes paid less per percentage of the cap than before his extension. If you didnt think he was overpaid before then why is he suddenly overpaid now?

I’m sure he’s talking about the new contract Ingram signed w Toronto. His Pelicans contract was for much less.

Higher dollar, but smaller percentage of cap which is what actually matters.

Note: Detroit should not pursue BI. Just pointing out he is cheaper now.

[Billl]

LOL - leave detroit out of this hot mess. We could have had ingram for a mediocre 1st if we wanted him, and that was before he got overpaid.

Hes paid less per percentage of the cap than before his extension. If you didnt think he was overpaid before then why is he suddenly overpaid now?

He was overpaid before. paying 1/4 of the cap for a non-star with injury issues is a bad contract.

[cgf]

Honestly, I think Toronto’s in a decent spot. There’s no pressure on their kids because they lack the kind of star they need to contend, but there should be a coherent offensive structure when healthy…Ingram #1, RJ #2, Quickley #3, Barnes #4…and their defense could give them something to bank on from night to night.

They have a firm ceiling until Ingram gets replaced, but if a true #1 becomes available, they’ve got all of their picks and some kids to pad out an offer…I.e. Ingram + Barnes + Poeltl + 4 FRPs + swaps + a bench kid or two for Giannis + Turner leaves them with a title caliber lineup of IQ - Dick - RJ - Giannis - Turner

[jbk1234]

I think that if the Raptors manage to win 40 games, it will be due to Ingram. He's a guy who can pair well with IQ (who can provide spacing) and possibly Barnes (if he plays as more of cutter and closer to the basket).

Move Barrett to sixth man and start Agbaji with the hope that he can maintain his 3p% on a higher number of attempts. If they recognize the strengths and limitations of the current roster, you can squint and see a sixth seed in a depleted East if they're healthy.

Conversely, if they continue to start Barrett, Ingram misses a bunch of games, Barnes continues to try to prove he's a No. 1 option, Agbaji can't maintain his 3p%, or seeks to protect it, I could see it being disaster pants.

Anyway, I have Ingram, and who they surround him with, as the keys to the season.

I think Ingram will be key to whether we can be 6th seed or higher, but just by not tanking and resting as many players we should be in the 38-42 win range even without Ingram

I think Ingram is the only player on the roster who can serve as a No. 1 option and it will be a long season if he gets hurt or other players decide they should be the No. 1 option.

[ill-Will03]

we tried to tank last season and ended up with 30 wins. That was with a ton of injuries, and blatant tanking. Not sure how people are trying to blow this team up without even a single game played.

I think the Raptors will surprise a lot of people next year. Their roster isn't as unbalanced as you think,

[Morris_Shatford]

I don't think there is any rush for the Raps to make moves before we have even seen Ingram in a Raps uniform.
The roster seems an eclectic mix of players similar to what my 12 year old cousin may create in 2K playing in MyGM mode.

However, the value of their guys can't get much worse at this point.
Roll with what you have and see where you are in January, no point in panicking till you see what this mess looks like on the floor.

[raferfenix]

Does it make sense for the Raptors to pay the tax though, ~ $6M away from ducking it if that’s right?

[Godaddycurse]

Does it make sense for the Raptors to pay the tax though, ~ $6M away from ducking it if that’s right?

we are about 800k over the tax if we do a 14man roster

[eitanr]

I see this as a two scenario route leading into off-season:

1. pre training camp: RJ for Allen/Richards move
-Should improve Ingram's value until deadline, who has largest gap to climb back up in value

2. At trade deadline, I could see Detroit, Philly and Dallas maybe being partners. Below are more likely alternatives:
Detroit: Harris, Ivey + future protected 1st
Dallas: Marshall, Washington, Gafford
Philly: George, McCain (Raps would need to add Acgabi).

-These moves now elevate roles for youth like Dick, Acjabi (if not included in a deal), Walter, and Murray-Bowles. Barnes also has a more clear run away to lead. Poetl and Quick also see elevated usage.

3. 2026 off-season. Re-evaluate pick situation, Barnes' value and specific youth fits.
A. Is Barnes the guy or is it worth while to move him? Castle was noted bc I could see his value diminishing some given a poorer fit currently in San Antonio. Before you go jumping at me...think about Fox/Harper/Castle together? Pending Portland's success, yes, they are an interesting candidate. Could be picks, more youth etc. Finally...and this one may be considered somewhat wild, BUT I am predicting Cooper Flagg will have an underwhelming rookie season given a real poor fit in Dallas. I think he's a 4 not a 5, and the fit next to Davis AND with Kyrie will subject him to more 3 and D type which will hurt his play. Barnes meanwhile is a better fit, especially with a defensive mantra. Barnes in a deal for Flagg could have legs given that prediction...maybe I am nuts. Another idea is Philly...George will still have his bad deal, and I could see VJ Edgecome being an interesting fit in Toronto...could have something there.

B. Gradey Dick may be another candidate to move pending fit. I like a Cason Wallace like target here.

C. More hopeful is IF the Barnes/Dick/Bowles trio has more legs AND Poetl and Quick's values increase and then more cap shedding is feasible.

[Mr Swagtastic]

I get you have to give up something enticing to move off Paul George's money but McCain is the last thing Philly should include. IMHO they are really in a bad spot. You either embrace a full on tank and build around Maxey, McCain, Edgecombe and pray you get something good for both Embiid and George in terms of picks or younger pieces.

If your staying the course and move George for Ingram I honestly don't see Toronto pay the extra $10+ to $15 million a year to George especially with his injury history and age.

[One_and_Done]

You would probably have to pay to dump RJ and BI.

Barnes could net a good return though.

This, although I doubt Barnes is even worth Castle.

[Mavrelous]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

[Texas Chuck]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

Eh, even if one believes his mid-range based game is worth making him the centerpiece of an offense(I do not), his history tells you that you can't depend on him to play enough games. Then when you consider his game isn't particularly complimentary to legit offensive stars, I'm not sure he is positive value to many teams. 50 games of a subpar 2nd option who doesn't do much to make life easier for your first option or your role players and who isn't a good defender making what he makes? Not sure there is real value here.

[psman2]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

So he is the NBA's version of Schrodinger's cat?

[Mavrelous]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

So he is the NBA's version of Schrodinger's cat?

BI is the good player, not RJ

[Mavrelous]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

Eh, even if one believes his mid-range based game is worth making him the centerpiece of an offense(I do not), his history tells you that you can't depend on him to play enough games. Then when you consider his game isn't particularly complimentary to legit offensive stars, I'm not sure he is positive value to many teams. 50 games of a subpar 2nd option who doesn't do much to make life easier for your first option or your role players and who isn't a good defender making what he makes? Not sure there is real value here.

He caps the ceiling of the team, but he's a volume scorer on average effeciency as a 1st option, and showed signs of being able to shoot 3s.
At sub 25% of the cap, 2 + 1, that's a good contract, I wouldn't target him if I wanted to win a ring, but to provide the push to make the PO, he's good enough.
We'll see how he fares this year.

[gswhoops]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

Eh, even if one believes his mid-range based game is worth making him the centerpiece of an offense(I do not), his history tells you that you can't depend on him to play enough games. Then when you consider his game isn't particularly complimentary to legit offensive stars, I'm not sure he is positive value to many teams. 50 games of a subpar 2nd option who doesn't do much to make life easier for your first option or your role players and who isn't a good defender making what he makes? Not sure there is real value here.

Yeah I mean GS pre-Jimmy had as close to an ideal set up for BI as you're going to find (a true first option who thrives off the ball, strong defenders who can cover for BI's weaknesses on that end) and we were desperate for an offensive boost, and there was still basically no interest in Ingram at the price point he was demanding.

[psman2]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

So he is the NBA's version of Schrodinger's cat?

BI is the good player, not RJ

OK...sorry read too fast. I don't love the contract but at least it is only 3 years. I think the issue with Ingram is that he is not a #1 option on a contending team. Toronto's roster is full of guys that should be #3s at best. Could a perfect fitting team work with no true #1, maybe but I don't see Toronto having that perfect mix.

[Texas Chuck]

RJ isn't good, but the pendulum has swung too far on BI, he's a good player on a fair contract at sub 25% of the cap.

Eh, even if one believes his mid-range based game is worth making him the centerpiece of an offense(I do not), his history tells you that you can't depend on him to play enough games. Then when you consider his game isn't particularly complimentary to legit offensive stars, I'm not sure he is positive value to many teams. 50 games of a subpar 2nd option who doesn't do much to make life easier for your first option or your role players and who isn't a good defender making what he makes? Not sure there is real value here.

He caps the ceiling of the team, but he's a volume scorer on average effeciency as a 1st option, and showed signs of being able to shoot 3s.
At sub 25% of the cap, 2 + 1, that's a good contract, I wouldn't target him if I wanted to win a ring, but to provide the push to make the PO, he's good enough.
We'll see how he fares this year.

If you thought he had a good chance at playing 70+ games, I get what you are saying. But the difference between him and say DeRozan is Derozan is going to play 75+ games and big minutes. BI misses 20 games a year in his best years, but he's averaged 45 games the last 4 years.

That's bad value at his cap figure imo.